Just curious if it’s do as we say and as we do

they earn straight from the masses? There is very little, if any that is "do as we say and as we do" when it comes to the "leaders."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/03/2019 10:35AM by cl2.

Fasting and paying is only for the little people.

...yes. They "Fast-Pay"...with a special access swipe-card. It enables them to pay AND deduct 1040A costs at the same time. "Only available to Mission Presidents and above."

I don't think that they or many other church employees pay any contributions. As an example, look how it's done for mission presidents.

Mission presidents are not salaried. However "necessary living expenses" are reimbursed.

These include

Food
Clothing
Household supplies
Family activities
Dry cleaning
Personal long distance calls
Gifts for Christmas, birthdays and anniversaries
Medical expenses, excluding cosmetic surgery
The cost of children serving full time missions
Round trip airfare for one yearly trip for all children that do not accompany the family, up to age 26
Full undergraduate tuition at any university or college
Rent
Maintainence, including grounds keeping outside the US
Telephone & internet
Utilities
A part time housekeeper or cook
An automobile, including all maintaince

It is specifically against church policy for a mission president to state they are paid for their services. The church tax office provides assistance and copies of tax court decisions to help navigate the technical areas of taxes, especially for US citizens.

This reimbursement is not tithed.

There's also this:
https://mormonleaks.io/wiki/documents/4/4d/Mission_President_Financial_Benefits_Infographic.pdf

cludgie Wrote:
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> It is specifically against church policy for a mission president to state they are paid for their services.

Perhaps because they are not paid for their services. Unlike G.A.'s they receive no salary. They are reimbursed expenses though, which I am guessing some MP's erroneously report as income on their taxes. This causes unnecessary problems for the church, MP, and IRS. So as far as telling a MP not to state they are paid for their services...as the preacher in the old temple movie used to say, "Your advice is good."

> This reimbursement is not tithed.

The reimbursement is not income. Perhaps you should ask if the MP paid tithing on the income that he used to pay the expense he was reimbursed for.

Oh, and the leaked Eyring pay stubs indicated he paid tithing on his pay.

I have no doubt that it is all very legal.

I also have no doubt that in my mind it is essentially fraud. It is like a very wealthy person or corporation paying no income tax because they found every last legal loophole.

I'd give up pay for that level of reimbursement.

But, don't worry we peasants will continue to pay for things like housekeepers so they don't have to.

Wowza Wrote:
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> I'd give up pay for that level of reimbursement.

You must be unemployed or have a crap job then.

Since a Mission Prez. basically has to put his life on hold to babysit for three years, that "level of reimbursement" is a break even proposition at best. Certainly nobody is getting rich from it. Now, if they were receiving a salary as well...that's a different story.

I wouldn't do it. Would cost me thousands.

for the initial expense-reimbursement cycle. After that, the amounts you received as previous "reimbursements" pay for the next round of "expenses" which are then "reimbursed"...funding another round of "expenses" which are then reimbursed, etc., etc.

Reimbursement simply means that anything that you paid out of pocket initially turns out to be free to you, because you got whatever it is that you paid for (and kept that value)...and then you get back the money that you spent to pay for it.

The first month primes the pump for about 36 (or whatever) additional months of a generous salary disguised as a system of reimbursements for expenses. The list of reimbursable categories covers virtually everything that could be needed or wanted. About the only thing that is not covered is savings and investments, but the fact that you have virtually no costs or expenses for 3 years or so means that whatever savings and investments you already had can continue to accrue interest, with no need to "break into the piggy bank" for things like tuition, rent, medical costs, etc.


Let's look at a simple thing like dry cleaning. Because it will be reimbursed, the MP and his wife will likely use dry cleaning services quite heavily. It could easily reach an annual total dry cleaning bill of $3,000 or $5,000 dollars. They're not paying for that. They may have been out of pocket for the first bill of $150 or whatever, but after that they're simply recycling reimbursement moneys and the final reimbursement ensures that nothing was ever really paid out of their own funds for any of it.

Plus some things like the automobile are likely owned by the church (or some corporate entity thereof), so the MP does not even have to initially go out of pocket for that or the insurance.

It may not be a sweet deal for some people, depending on their circumstances. But for some people it will definitely be a sweet deal. For church careerists (like Monson or Hinckley's son), an MP gig is ideal. Keeps the family well fed, well provided for, well entertained until the next church-sponsored gig.

Wally Prince Wrote:
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> Let's look at a simple thing like dry cleaning.
> Because it will be reimbursed, the MP and his wife
> will likely use dry cleaning services quite
> heavily. It could easily reach an annual total
> dry cleaning bill of $3,000 or $5,000 dollars.
> They're not paying for that. They may have been
> out of pocket for the first bill of $150 or
> whatever, but after that they're simply recycling
> reimbursement moneys and the final reimbursement
> ensures that nothing was ever really paid out of
> their own funds for any of it.

I never understood as a missionary why my mission president would challenge other missionaries to a basketball free-throw contest during zone conferences. His rule required everybody to make shots while wearing their suit coats. Now it makes sense that the church easily reimbursed for his family's dry-cleaning. The rest of us were regularly judged and criticized over our appearance. I refrained from playing sports while wearing my suit as I didn't have it to get it repaired. I often had to ask my parents for extra money to get it dry-cleaned.

If you were able to beat him shooting hoops then he would buy your lunch. If the mission president beat the group of ten challengers (and he often did) then the entire group was obligated to buy his lunch. The last thing I wanted to do was to spend more time with the pompous ass.

Jaxson Wrote:
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>
> The reimbursement is not income. Perhaps you
> should ask if the MP paid tithing on the income
> that he used to pay the expense he was reimbursed
> for.

This is only true as a matter of superficial semantics. Tithing is, at least according to scripture, based on one's "increase".

The type of reimbursement system described here is extremely generous and comprehensive.

Reimbursement is not "I give you this money and you give it back to me."

Reimbursement is "I use 'my' money to purchase something valuable, then you give me the same amount of money that I used to purchase that valuable thing (without it being taxed as 'income')...AND I ALSO KEEP THE ENTIRE BENEFIT OF THAT VALUABLE THING. I also don't pay tithing on it because it's t e c h n i c a l l y ....not income per se."

Under the reimbursement system described above, the church pays for the MP's kids' college tuition. Pays for the MP's family's clothes. Pays for "gifts". Pays for "family activities", etc., etc.... Anyone who only "breaks even" on a deal like that would have to be a moron.

The mormon church is like any other multi-level marketing scheme. When you come-in at the bottom, you pay in to it. If you move-up high enough in the organization, you get paid. Most people never move up and never get paid. People are lied to in order to get them to join. Those at the top lie about their incomes (although for different reasons).

I have taken an interest in MLMs lately and am working on a piece that will compare the LDS church to a MLM. IMO you could either say that the church IS a MLM, or that both are cults.

Why I still have issues.

From the church handbook.

-This reimbursement is not tithed.

So why the hell were we missionaries instructed (not suggested, no misunderstanding on my part) that out of our monthly missionary supplementary payment of $125 (the mission kept 225 for expenses), we had to pay 12.50 to the ward/branch as a fast offering. We had to get receipts from clerks to PROVE to the MP that we were obedient missionaries.

My mission president made no bones that we were way too spoiled. He thought we should get by with 70 dollars a month. I had companions eating cup-o-noodles/top ramen because they couldn't budget their money.

From what I understand, Thomas Monson was a big faster...that is the faster he could shove those Ding Dong's and cheeseburger's in his mouth on fast sunday - the better.