Following up on the revelations about the church's EPA investment fund, it's worth asking how secure its finances actually are. The church says it needs the money for a rainy day, aka "the apocalypse." Assuming for the moment that there is a God, also that there will be an apocalypse, does that claim make any sense?

Emphatically, no. Again, we are talking about $100 billion in marketable securities (ignoring the tiny slivers allocated to private equity, etc.), another $100 billion in real estate, and some dribs and drabs in commercial interests. So probably $200-250 billion in total.

The $100 billion in marketable securities is basically paper. It is worth the lesser of 1) the value of the underlying companies, and 2) what fraction of those securities you can actually collect on.

But in an apocalypse, companies will presumably go out of business--meaning that their value will be zero. Moreover those companies that survive (with greatly diminished value) may well refuse to give you the money they owe you. When you turn to the government to enforce your legal rights, who will help? The nuclear explosions/fire and brimstone/universal bloodshed will have interrupted operations at the Securities and Exchange Commission and the FBI, sort of like on a snow day. So your rights to collect will extend no further than you can ride your horse--assuming you have enough hay to feed it.

What about the estimated $100 billion in real estate? Same problem. The church may have legal title to the land on which the temples and chapels rest, but how exactly is the COB going to assert control over temples in Nigeria or Hong Kong? The Polynesian Cultural Center may be able to lend Church security some outriggers, but that won't help them get from the West Coast to Hawaii. And what could the church sell its temple in the Philippines for given that neither the peso nor the dollar retains any value? Pineapples?

So no, the church's financial claims make no sense. The truth is that a systemic breakdown in societal order and government power would render everything from bank accounts to stocks and bonds, from real estate to gold and silver, virtually worthless. The morale of the story is "eat, drink and be merry, for in an apocalypse your AMC tickets won't be worth a damn.

That says it all right there

Yes, Lot's wife - you made a clear summary of the absurdity of their claims.

It always bothered me that the corporation rarely offered any substantial help to those who needed it. First, at least where I have lived, a member had to be deemed worthy to receive help. Second, the recipient of this minimal aid becomes a second class citizen in the organization. This person is talked about negatively in leadership meetings. To add additional insult, often the recipient must 'pay it back' at hourly rates that cruelly abuses the member.

The Mormon Church basically is run on a spread sheet where everything is optimized for its income.
* Firing of the janitors expecting members to do the cleaning
* Replacing paid employees with seniors who are called on to missions to provide the same services for free
* Virtually zero ward budgets. All monies go back to headquarters instead.
* $500 per month now for missionaries who are given back insufficient funds to eat properly (for example)
* Cannot even use the meeting house kitchens
* Buildings are not open to community groups like other churches.
* Its charitable contributions are a fraction of a percent of its income. Most for profit corporations give more to charity than the Mormon church.
* Tithing is a heavy burden for many families.

Very succinctly summing up the situation.

I indeed concur with Lot's Wife.

& indeed I also concur with Beth..."That says it all right there"

ONLY pure GREED fostered by un-accountability has driven & inflated those staggering numbers to what they are now.

& of course with NO regard for the original purpose(s) of tithing in the first place...which is to do some real good in the world to those in need.

Again I say there is ONLY tithing and residuals from tithing.

Hey FP & Q-12 Brethren...have you drilled a well lately for any third-world kids that could REALLY use some clean drinking water???

If not...I can only ask you bastards why not???

Or so it seems to me...

But LD$,Tnc.'s definition of apocalypse is when everyone stops paying tithing.

All true, or at least reasonable*. But, ahead of an apocalypse, there would surely be difficult times where access to cash will be of immense value to whoever had it!


*if that term is in any way meaningful in a discussion about the practicalities of life on a post-apocalypsy Earth

The church also seems to contend that the U.S. dollar will function as the global currency during the millennium. Never mind that Mormon Jesus is supposed to establish the (socialist communitarian) United Order worldwide, rendering all monetary systems instantly worthless. Church spokesweasels need to relearn their own doctrine.

[As a side issue, no church authority ever discusses how the United Order is actually supposed to work, especially in any setting other than a small-scale agrarian economy with minimal technology. Because it can't work.]

They built a mall with a fifty year lifespan, and are doing seismic upgrades on the SL temple. They are not expecting the world to end anytime soon.

Yes, that is the irony I hoped to convey. They may say they believe in the apocalypse and the Second Coming, but their investment strategies belie that claim.

"Ensign’s president, Roger Clarke, has told others that the amassed funds would be used in the event of the second coming of Christ."

They're using the same old Second Coming card, sort of like the "insanity plea" in court.

We're not living in pioneer days anymore. People will not accept the Mormon scam anymore. Why don't honest tax payers rebel and storm the SLC head office? A whole Nation far outnumbers one little cult cartel. The Feds flushed out the Mafia, so why not jail the Mormons?

It's happened to the Mormons before....

Changing the cult's name and hiding behind Christ won't help them, because it's too late!

LOL--maybe all this construction is a way of dumping the assets. Maybe they are barricading the temple walls and shoring up the underground tunnels for a reason. Maybe Rusty's magic pen foretold this.

(take your pick) thing is obviously a crock intended for extremely gullible people. I don't believe for a minute that the top management of EP really believe such nonsense. It's patently absurd even by Mormon standards.

The fact that the Nielsens didn't buy it indicates that at least a few of the employees aren't as gullible as upper management was hoping.

Even when I was a try-hard TBM, if someone had told me that the Church was saving $100 billion for armageddon OR the second coming, I wouldn't have been able to swallow such nonsense.

The Great Basin will flood. They'll need to protect Zion and pay for dikes, pumps, drainage. They'll need so much more--a hundred billion will be only..um....a drop in the bucket?

"A theological note: The first youtube narrator mentioned that they hold the reserves for either the 2nd Coming of Christ, or Armageddon. If they studied their Bible, they would realize that financial assets would be either extinguished or useless during those events.

It's one thing to prep for natural disasters, civil and political disorders, or economic collapse, but there's no temporal preparation for the Apocalypse.

Why do they do this? greed produces more greed. "Just another 10 billion...no, we'll ease up when we reach 75 billion in assets...no, 90 billion...we're at 100 billion, no reason to stop now..."

where we learned that the first action to be taken by Jesus when he returns (aka @Second Coming) will be to declare that Federal Reserve Notes will continue to be the main world reserve currency.

He will then have the Mormon prophet sign the paperwork necessary to transfer the corporate sole to Jesus. Then he will visit the Ensign Peak Advisers and have them do the necessary paperwork to give Jesus full and direct control over all of the funds being managed by EPA.

Jesus will then go to Vegas and party with resurrected Elvis.

What did you think the Second Coming was going to be about? Jesus hated the First Coming because it was all work and no fun. The Second Coming is going to be the opposite of that.

All very true. We can learn alot about the apocolypse by reviewing history. Just look South of the Border when another really big church use to own everything. There was a time when the Catholic church owned over 60% of Mexico, All the indians were slaves with nothing more than guarantee of salvation for their wages. It was a giant bureaucracy with Spaniards at the top and trickling down from there. Then of course Juarez came and took the property. But the Mexicans didn't really learn anything. They are all still ignorant Catholics, but thankfully they aren't slaves.

The same could probably be true again with the Mormons. When they get to big, some social justice warrior will come and take it all and society will start all over again.

Why would Jesus need the money anyhow? Isn't he like in the Godhead or something?

>> "But in an apocalypse, companies will presumably go out of business"

Or.....the church will be the only business on earth.....and Biff Howard Tannen will be the prophet :)

Just the same ...

The church could shoot someone on South Temple and not lose a dedicated member.

Well, ghawd knew you were going to say that, but me, I was totally caught off guard, and so I chortled! Thanks!!