https://www.sltrib.com/opinion/commentary/2020/01/25/dave-winslow-ungodly/

Criticizing church leadership and Hoax by name.

ood for him for supporting his child.

It's a good article. Bravo.

I couldn't agree more.

I always believed they could get the answers if they asked and, so, when I went to them, I was aghast at how they dealt with the situation. One of the big ones was going against their own teachings about saving myself for marriage, but it was okay not to if you were trying to get a gay guy turned on so he could get married.

I love to see it when parents CHOOSE TO SEE who their children are like the father who wrote the letter about when he left the church, he had somewhere to go, to his son. (Done & Done knows where the story is located on the board.)

It will be interesting to watch this man's story. I hope what happens is public, that he makes sure we all know what happens.

Why didn’t the other members of the Q15 see the writing on the wall? They knew that Oaks obsessed over gays the way Humphrey Bogart’s Commander Queeg obsessed over a missing quart of strawberries. Unless God was incompetent when he promoted Oaks to the First Presidency.

Any member who openly declares the leaders in opposition of god's plan or teachings are at risk of being declared apostate and disciplined by the church.

I am glad that Mr. Wilson wrote that piece, I only hope that he can truly see that the church just didn't become a hurtful weapon with the current presidency, but that the church has been hurtful and harmful for years.

I think it's great that the church is pushing out its own members. That's why I am hoping both Oaks and Bednar get a chance to be king.

I took note John Dehlin posted this on fb, so maybe he will follow it and even interview him.

This is exactly why homophonic religions never wanted publicly endorsed (government sanctioned) gay marriage.

I don't believe it was the government they were afraid of but the love of their members for their kin.

anyone able to copy paste? strib cannot figure out EU data protection laws.

>We'll be back

>We're sorry. The Salt Lake Tribune's web site, sltrib.com, is unavailable in the European Union. We are working with lawyers on compliance with the European Union's General Data Protection Requirements, and we expect to sltrib.com to be available once that is done. Thank you for your patience.

Ungodly teachings about LGBTQ drive people away from LDS Church



By Dave Winslow | Special to The Tribune


I am a 60-plus, returned missionary, temple married, father of eight, lifelong member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. The church taught me we are all brothers and sisters, our highest calling is parenthood and we emulate God as we truly love our children.

The rate of church membership growth has slowed markedly in my lifetime. Today, three-fourths of millennials leave the church alongside many from earlier generations. Reasons for this exodus include a lack of trust that church leaders are truthful regarding controversial issues, the inaccurate portrayal of church history and the unfair treatment of the LGBTQ.

After a daughter disclosed her homosexuality, I was motivated to study the teachings on homosexuality of church leaders I revered, from President Spencer W. Kimball to Russell M. Nelson. The uninspired and ungodly teachings on homosexuality of these leaders were in opposition to what I know about my daughter. She is a beloved daughter of heavenly parents who was born without sin and homosexual. This absolute knowledge created cognitive dissonance and led me to question whether church leaders are truly inspired.

The original November 2015 policy – same-sex married members are in apostasy and their children cannot receive priesthood ordinances – closely matched the policy on polygamous members and their children. The ensuing confusion required clarification via First Presidency letter just one week after the original policy was leaked. Yet two months later Elder Russell M. Nelson stated that the policy was a revelation from God.

In April 2019, the church changed the policy and announced these same married same-sex members are only transgressors and, with bishop approval, their children are ordinance eligible. Five months later, Nelson stated that both the original policy and the reversal are revelations.

I disagree. God’s inspiration feels absent in this timeline.

The uncanonized Proclamation on the Family has been weaponized in opposition to LGBTQ rights, particularly by President Dallin H. Oaks. He has led the church’s anti-LGBTQ efforts with unscientific and un-Christlike rhetoric for decades. These teachings damage precious spirits and destroy faith. Is the resultant spiritual harm to members just collateral damage; and the membership resignations and LGBTQ suicides acceptable losses in the church’s battle?

Do we comprehend that faithful LGBTQ members must sacrifice their right to fully love another person in a legal marriage relationship, a core part of our earthly experience, when choosing lifelong celibacy? Alternatively, if they choose love and marriage; they are judged and shunned by the church, fellow members and family. Something precious is lost with either choice. What would you choose if faced with this situation?

This policy of lifelong celibacy for LGBTQ members appears to be based on church leader’s lack of godly empathy and prophetic vision. Rather than envision expansive doctrine like Joseph Smith or President Kimball, church leaders declare “that’s how it’s always been” or “the world may change but God does not change.” Proverbs 29:18 states “Where there is no vision, the people perish.” The church continues to repeat past mistakes, again subjecting a minority to un-Christlike treatment.

Church members sustain the First Presidency and Twelve Apostles as prophets, seers and revelators. Church teachings state these leaders will never lead us astray. However, if church leaders cannot distinguish revelation from confirmation bias or personal opinion, can we trust their teachings and pronouncements? Have church leaders truly and humbly petitioned God – following President Kimball’s example – to understand His plan for the LGBTQ?

I again implore the leaders of the church to emulate the Savior’s love to seek true revelation with empathy, strength and humility regarding God’s plan of salvation for the LGBTQ.


Dave Winslow is a civil engineer with 35 years of experience. He is inspired by the courage of all who struggle for equality.

Thanks LW. The SLT has been saying it will be back for Europeans for several years now...

You and our other correspondents in Europe should just let me know in such cases. It would be a privilege to help out.

--LW, not in Paris

Thanks so very much!!

https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2020/01/27/mormon-lesbian-daughter-church-anti-gay-teachings-lgbt-latter-day-saints-russell-nelson/


Be sure this gets shared 'mongst your friends!

Nelson is the captain of the Titanic and he thinks telling the stokers to shovel coal harder is the solution. The church is a lost cause. The only question is how long will it stay afloat.

Mr Winslow is asking
To Have church leaders truly and humbly petitioned God – following President Kimball’s example

The only reason Kimball truly and humbly petitioned God the first time was the church felt threatened by the government. There was no truly and humbly petitioning of God, more like we need to make this change now or we will face severe monetary consequences. So lets figure out how to put a godly spin on this and fool the masses once again.

I thought they would truly and humbly petition God back in 1983. I even asked Boyd and I got a horrible response. His response was such that it made me realize he didn't have a clue about gays. It was more that they are damned because they don't fit into their view.

What he is asking for will NEVER happen and, more than likely, he will also leave the church. It might take as long as it took me or maybe he'll be a bit smarter and get out sooner.

P.S. THEY DON'T CARE.

And I think it was Elder Berry that said something about them loving their kin more than concerns over laws. Yep. If members love their family members who are gay, they are going to lose more and more people.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/27/2020 08:24PM by cl2.

I thought you were going to show nelson facing his court of love.

Approximately the same amount of time that it take for light to travel from Kolob to Rusty's depends.

"God’s inspiration feels absent in this timeline."

Yep, and just about every other timeline since the LDS story began.

This op-ed was thoughtful, specific and borne of experience--something that tends to be missing from most LDS testimony, which is frequently formulaic, general, and repeating what other people say.

"However, if church leaders cannot distinguish revelation from confirmation bias or personal opinion, can we trust their teachings and pronouncements?"

No. And that's the crux of the problem. Every time they make these weird twists and turns it exposes the fact that these men are not what they have claimed to be for decades. In order for things to change, it will take more than the "brethren" being better men. LDS people will need to acknowledge their leaders are not inspired in the way they thought and put some democratic guardrails in place for their organization as the Community of Christ has done.