I'm really happy for you if they didn't try to lynch your grandfather because he married a white woman.

I'm really happy for you if your mother wasn't born in an infant foundling and her father told that she should be adopted by a white family and that he had to *prove* that he could afford to raise her before they released your mother from the orphanage and gave her to his *sister* because of the aforementioned lynching threat.

I'm really happy for you if your six-year-old CHILD wasn't called "blackie" at the community swimming pool.

I'm really happy for you if your *child* wasn't singled out in his high school English class by a teacher who assumed your brown *child* listens to rap. He doesn't.

I'm really happy for you if your father didn't have bricks thrown at him on his way to school.

I'm really happy for you if strangers, STRANGERS, don't feel entitled to ask you about how you became brown and then act freakin' SHOCKED, I tell you, SHOCKED when you tell them yes, you're black. Yes, both of your parents are black.

I'm really happy for you if your boyfriend never told you that you should say you're Brazilian instead of black because for some reason in this country it's better to be from a country with the *largest* African slave trade. Exotic.

I'm really, really happy for you if your friend, who's black, too, didn't ask you, "Why do you say you're black when you don't have to?" An eight-year old knew that being black is not a good thing.

And I really am happy for you. You know why? Because I wouldn't wish this shit on ANYONE.

It's never like, "oh, that's cool." It's like, "There's no way you can be black. You don't *sound* black."

My great-grandmother (GG) was a laundress. Sometimes she took in other people's laundry, and sometimes she worked in other people's homes.

She was working in someone's home, and the cook told her to scrub the floors when she was done with the laundry. GG said no - she was going to leave when she finished ironing, and she was almost done. The cook came toward her waving a knife. GG burned her on the face with the iron. GG went to jail.

GG begged the judge not to send her to jail. It was self-defense. My grandfather was an infant. She needed to be home. No matter. She went to jail.

While she was in jail, the warden had her work in his home. She cooked and did whatever he wanted. One evening, a guest wanted to compliment the cook (GG, not the burned woman). She was called from the kitchen, and there at the table sat the fucking judge who sent her to jail.

Judge: That [whatever the fuck] pie was delicious.

GG: If I had know it was *you*, I would have put glass in it.

No matter what we do, we will never get whiter. I can't scrub the brown off. That means that for the rest of my life and for the rest of my brothers' lives and for the rest of my child's life, someone can say whatever the fuck they want whenever they want just because of how we look. And we have to take it.

We already know people think shit things about us. AND THEY DON'T EVEN KNOW US. They don't even WANT to know us.

So I am REALLY happy for you if this is not your day-to-day reality. It's a shit life.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 02/03/2020 10:58PM by Beth.

We love you, Beth. You are awesome in every way.

I Love you Beth!

And I love Dave.

So, Dave - here's a story.

I was at my father's house for Thanksgiving, and one of my brothers was shit talking about Italians. Soooo, I'm sitting there waiting for someone to say something.

Tick

Tick

Tick

Damn. Really?

"What the hell is going on here? No one else sees a problem with this? I don't want to hear *anyone* at this table ever complain about prejudice, because you don't have a leg to stand on. Please pass the yams."

Don't get me started on gnomes. Or leprechauns, which are even worse!

Watch out for Orcs, though. No redeeming qualities. at. all.

Yes, but they were couched in some excellent writing.

Leprechauns, not so much.

What does a killer whale say after a nice meal of Tolkein creatures?

:-P

Thank you for being happy for me.

Not one for empathy, I take it?

What a… random comment.

This is why you are my cybermom. You would have fought for me back in the day i am sure of it.

You would have chosen your child over a religion/cult i am dead certain.

When I got out of the Navy, I moved to my mom's house in NJ after about a year of working in Bakersfield, CA. (It's a dry heat). She convinced me to come home and go to college. It didn't take much to get me the hell out of Bakersfield.

So, we were living with my Bible-thumping mom, and it was required that we go to church and mom insisted that my kid go to the holy roller school my brother was attending. (My kid is closer in age to my brothers than my brothers are to me.)

So

My kid went to that school for part of kindergarten and 1st grade, and then we moved out of Mom's house because it got to be just too many personalities in too small a space.

And no more church or churchy school or churchy talk! Huzzah!

When my kid was about 10 or something like that, he told me that the old school scared the shit out of him. I apologized for exposing him to that and told him that church scared the shit out of me, too when I was a kid. He thanked me for getting him out of there, and then we started the hard work of getting that business out of our minds. I don't think you ever get it all, but you get most.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 02/04/2020 12:37AM by Beth.

Yea it definitely takes a while to get it out. But no more churchy talk or cult talk would have been like paradise to me as a kid. I got so used to listening to cult talk from a distance and tuning it out while i played video games its not even funny. Still trying to break my shut down and escapism behavior. I am realizing i don't have to deal with that sh#t and spend a lot of energy dodging these crazy cult family members. My brain literally shut down and tuned these people out to survive. I've literally been trying to reactivate my brain for like the last three years. Get the real adam back that the cult and my family tried to destroy and i did think they succeeded in destroying me until i started reading a lot of cult books to understand the tactics that were used against me and getting away from toxic family members. Get some damn personality going also or something in the real world. I thought i was the problem but i was born in an insane environment from the get go. I could not figure out how to ever get out of the operation and away from the family to actually live a real life. Cult life is not a real life and i am sorry if i offend people but you can not be a true parent being under mind control. The mind controlled parent will choose the cult over the childs needs almost everytime. I have seen in it first hand. You can not truly live and grow when you are under cult control and opression. You can make as many babies and have as much sex as you want but you are still under mind control and under their constant influence and you give up your free will and your brain. Its not a real life. Trust me the kids get sacrificed in the end.

And when you're a kid, you think that the adults know what they're doing. And it's always been like that because you've relied on them since you were born.

I remember when I learned that my mother had lied to me about being a virgin when she got married. That virgin thing was SUCH a big deal. OMG

So, my parents divorced when I was seven, and I spent Sundays with my dad. When I was 16, I asked my father if my mother was a virgin when they got married. He laughed. A lot. Dude doesn't laugh. So, okay! Dad's doubled over laughing, and Mom's a liar.

BOOM

I thought, "There is something wrong with these people, and I don't know why I listen to a thing they say."

Yea it took me a while to figure out that there is something seriously wrong with my parents and i felt like a hostage to them because they paid for the shelter and food and they made me feel like i was too 'mentally ill' to make it on my own in this world. The indoctrination didn't take with me but i was along for the ride thats for sure. I was in survival mode constantly 24/7 and i am slowly getting out of those habits that i am not really in danger of these people or have connection to their influence and weird beliefs. but they always had a way to make me feel like i was the crazy one. Lord knows i tried to understand that religion, more than once. Never made sense to my brain. The constant repitition was literally mind numbing. Why are we doing the same thing for the millionth time? Like sacrament or prayers(thought stopping) throughout every single day. Later i realized the repition is on purpose to brainwash or mind control. Is it weird that i actually knew that i was being brainwashed when it was happening? Or indoctrinated with the same material for the millionth time. My sisters followed it hook-line-and sinker but i didn't. My real self knew something was off about the entire thing. But it felt like i had no one to talk to that would understand what the hell i was going through.

Beth has indeed fought some major battles for people in the past. One of the ones about which I know was in a professional setting where a senior person was trying to ruin a junior person's career. Beth was asked to look into the conflict and exposed all the machinations, which, in the light of day, looked as appalling as they in fact were.

The higher-ranking exec lost his job and the junior employee kept his. Beth? She earned the respect of senior management, which was embarrassed by what had been revealed, was given additional responsibilities, and went back to work as usual.

If you are ever in a street fight, you want Beth on your side.

Nice, i may be in a street fight in the future but i have a crew of friends here that i made that have my back and think i am pretty cool. But i know beth would tear sh#t up. I wish she was there to battle for me in the past and put people in their place because things got out of hand. Like put both my parents and the religious leaders in their place. I needed an adult to put other adults in their place when i was young i feel like.

I think i can hold my own though by myself. My father kind of worries me because that guy has some serious rage issues but i was much younger when i have had religious disagreements in the past with him but he held the cards like shelter and food. My father does not have that advantage anymore to make me homeless in a religious showdown. Now i can finally say how i feel about his very bizarre beliefs that no sane human adult would believe.

I have lots of black co-workers. One of my co-workers grew up in South Carolina and white people whipped his mother with an actual whip. Yes, a lot of white people are assholes and you and your ancestors have personal experience with this.

Stay strong.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/03/2020 11:14PM by Dave the Atheist.

Oh! I have lots of white co-workers, too! Matter of fact, I ALWAYS have! I'm so super-fucking proud I'm working with all those white people that I brag about it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/03/2020 11:18PM by Beth.

Is white privilege rearing its ugly head again ?

You have seen me and I have seen you. You know how white I am.

For the most part, a white person in this country can live a life without ever having to rely on people of color for their livelihood. That's not the case for racial minorities. The word "minority" has meaning.

For the most part, a straight cis-gender person in this country can live a life without ever having to rely on people who are not straight or cis gender for their livelihood. That is not the case for gender non-conforming, gay, lesbian, bisexual, and trans people. The word "minority" has meaning.

White males, this is your world, for now. And the more things change, the more freaked out people become, and the more dangerous it becomes to be a minority.

But never doubt that one day, we will *all* be treated equally without regard to race (a social construct), sex, gender, sexual preference. One day we will get there.

The first step is to acknowledge that being white and male is a million times better than being brown and male. That's a no brainer. How much money would it take for you to choose to be a black male in America?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/03/2020 11:44PM by Beth.

This may sound weird but i feel more like a black man under white skin. I've never gotten along with or even liked the attitude of white men in authority positions. I have never been like the white men that have been in powerful positions since forever. They own this place. They own all the important land. They own the cults it seems. They may own the banks it seems. I've never seen a black CEO of a bank and i have seen a few. They like to put themselves on billboards as if they are men of the people. Well everyone here knows a bank screwed me and never apologized and i had to fight in court to get the money back but i never got the money that the bank took. Money is not safe in a bank at all and is why i am very cautious now when dealing with them. Banks have to make money off of people's mistakes. And they do fooor sure. Anyways, im moving on and i am happier.

Class

At the end of the civil war, poor blacks and poor whites had a lot in common, mainly, being poor and having to work for wealthy land owners. Well, shit. We can't have people bonding and joining in a common effort to improve their lives. There are more of them than there are of us, so let's start this Jim Crow thing: You might be poor, but at least you're not black and poor.

A similar thing happened in the industrialized North, but instead of race, the splinter was religion. (The race thing was already a given.)

You had poor Protestants living in tenements, and poor Catholics living in tenements, and they start getting ideas about forming unions. There was no such thing as a 40-hour week; you worked as long as you were told. Child labor wasn't against the law. Read about the Triangle Shirtwaist Factory.

So, the wealthy folks are like, no. This won't do. There are more poor people that us. So, "Hey, Protestants! Those Papists? Stay away from them. The Irish - man, don't give them jobs. Here - put this in your window: INNA. And those Italians? Pretty brown, huh?"

Don't even get me started on how many Chinese people were INTENTIONALLY blown up placing charges for railroads. And argh.

I do not know what cis means and i am a little embarrassed that i do not know this. Help me out beth.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cisgender

Cisgender (sometimes cissexual, often abbreviated to simply cis) is a term for people whose gender identity matches the sex that they were assigned at birth. For example, someone who identifies as a woman and was assigned female at birth is a cisgender woman. The term cisgender is the opposite of the word transgender.

Oh i see. Thank you.

Thank you. I also did not know what that meant. I don't get out much.

So, we assign sex based on sex chromosomes, x and y. There are also people who are intersex and can have other variations of sex chromosomes.

So, say you're born and your sex chromosomes are x and y, and outwardly you look like a baby boy, and the doctor yells, "IT'S A BOY!" Your assigned sex is male. As you grow up, you're like, "Cool. Blah blah blah. I'm a guy." That's being cisgender

Some people with x and y chromosomes grow up thinking, "You know. Something's not right here. This is not who I am." Many of those folks are transgender or gender non-conforming. For gender non-conforming, think David Bowie and Grace Jones.

Cisgender - you're born and when people see your naked ass they say, You are a boy. or You are a girl.

Transgender - you're born and when people see your naked ass, they say You are a boy. You are a girl. But inside, as you grow up, you know they're wrong. Your naked ass might look male or female, but the outside doesn't match the inside, the head and heart.

I gotcha. I've never felt like the average guy that likes to hunt and get lifted trucks but i am not real feminine either. I'm straight but i acknowledge when a guy is good looking. I'm still kind of figuring out what i am to be honest. I was never allowed to figure these things out growing up in a cult where everyone was literally the same and dressed up the same and wore the same underwear. I've been told that i am like a beta-alpha and an empath which may be correct. I don't know. I can move a dangling crystal with energy or something. I can't translate a book by looking at a crystal though. Am i a freak because i can move crystals? Maybe. Not sure.

There's no timetable.

Labels are what people try to stick *on* you.

Identity is who you *are*. And identity can change over time. That's cool.

So, resist the labels. That's not you. Fuck the labels.

Your identity - that's who you are. And like I wrote, it might change over time. I'm pretty sure it will. And that's okay. It's normal. I don't think about myself the same way I did five years ago. Things have happened, I have learned, I've challenged my assumptions, and hopefully I will continue to do so.

All is well.

Yea f#ck labels. You can't put people in boxes.

Watching Iowa right now.

Just another to add on an infinite list:


Just 4% of Iowa’s population is black, but blacks make up 26% of the state’s prison population.

In 2016, the @SentencingProj ranked Iowa third worst in the nation for its 1 in 17 incarceration rate of adult black males.

https://twitter.com/LawyersComm/status/1223290030199840770?s=20


Don’t get me started on how many unarmed black men are murdered by American cops.

Human, “I can’t breathe”

Can I borrow some of your brown? I’m way too pale.

I scrub and I scrub. Damn. Still brown.

I can spray tan you :)

You know, the oldest race on Earth, according to genetic science, is those guys in Africa that talk in clicks. It seems that the human race was born black. That’s something to be proud of.

Whites are raised to think the way they think. I grew up in a very prejudiced area where you never saw a minority. I suppose they didn’t dare live there. I’d like to think America has changed, but maybe it is I who have changed.

The plantations are back, just with higher walls. But they are more equal opportunity. Being poor will do just fine, which doesn’t bode well for the disappearing middle class. I think things will get better though. Okay, I hope.

At least you have your sense of humor. My DW was funny too. She laughed at my bad jokes. Been dead a year, I miss her. Life is short. I hope the injustice doesn’t get you down. Let go and let God, she has something for them.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/04/2020 01:13AM by babyloncansuckit.

babyloncansuckit Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You know, the oldest race on Earth, according to
> genetic science, is those guys in Africa that talk
> in clicks. It seems that the human race was born
> black. That’s something to be proud of.

When I was taking a course in history from the University of South Africa (UNISA), I encountered the word "Khoisan" for the first time in my life, and I didn't have the slightest idea who these people were--which made it very difficult to understand the point of that section of the course. I gradually learned who the Khoisan were, and that they spoke "click languages" (and that the clicks had migrated into other languages, like Xhosa--which begins with the "x" which is a click all by itself). There are also clicks in Zulu, and (I learned) in many other languages as well.

When I was there, in South Africa, I bought some introductory materials in Xhosa (including recordings), and got to the point where I can "click" three letters--but NOT if they are all in the same word!!

For anyone interested in this thread, here is a real gift from the You Tube gods: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c246fZ-7z1w

If you like this National Geographic video (which touches on many of the sub-themes in this thread), then go over to You Tube and search for "click languages." Many different video offerings will come up, most of which are meant as learning materials for people who want to learn either a click language--or just "how" to click, because being able to click is fun. (It really is! Try it and you will see for yourself!)

There are still Khoisan peoples in South Africa, and there are Khoisan peoples in Namibia and Botswana (and likely other places as well)--and the Khoisan are the people portrayed in the film "The Gods Must Be Crazy," which was immensely popular on the art house circuit when it was initially released, and has become a kind of enduring classic among film students and film aficionados.

Trevor Noah (who comes from Xhosa roots) also has a video on You Tube where he (briefly) teaches the art of clicking.

For anyone interested in our earliest (so far as we know right now) human relatives, I am pretty sure you will find the link I provided above to be really, really fascinating--and very much worth the few minutes it takes to see it.

Happy clicking!

EDITED TO ADD: Here is a white guy, carefully teaching (presumably) white learners, HOW to click (broken down into comprehensible steps):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Pt7Ks2B_XY



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 02/04/2020 03:25PM by Tevai.

There are also a group of people in the Indian subcontinent whose language sounds like birdsong.

I can't find it on the Googles right now.

I was watching something about Vedic Sanskrit - that's all I remember right now. :(

Babylon, I had no idea your wife passed away. You have my condolences--and my admiration for your constantly optimistic outlook.

Thank you for this gift.

I'm hitting the hay. I hope you all have lovely evenings, mornings, days, and dreams.

Time to put the ducks to bed.

I'm hitting the hay too.

Warrior
Out

I know so many people who think everything is okay now cuz Oprah is rich and influential and Denzel won an Oscar.

Meanwhile Kaepernick is one of my heroes and I don't care what anyone thinks about that.

I didn't get it all at first. Was raised in the whitest most Mormon county of Northern Utah. I heard the racism in my home. I saw it on TV. Didn't even know what black people were though until the Mormon church told me they were fence sitters in the Pre-Existence.

I don't pretend to know what it is like. Who is another hero? Ava duVernay. "When They See Us" She said something.

Love to you Beth. Your words were searing beauty--guts on the outside.

My friend Beth is beautiful.

So too my friend D&D.

I tend to be glass half empty type of person (not that no one has noticed) and I don't see it ever becoming to a point where there is no prejudice. Sad to say. A tragedy.

Warrior,

Luckily I did have family and still do who have left the church and I especially have my youngest brother. I think I've found myself about as much as I'm going to, but it took years. Since I was raising kids and struggling to survive, I didn't have time to focus on it, but it happened anyway. The further you get away from it, the more you find yourself. The more problems you solve in you life (like doing the bankruptcy), get rid of the chaos, the more you find yourself.

As for gays and you don't like sports, etc. They're all different, too. My "husband" doesn't like sports, but he also isn't a shopper, and he dresses POORLY in terms of fashion. I had to take him out shopping after I'd known him a year or so so he wasn't wearing Kmart blue light special tennis shoes. I still buy his clothes, as does his daughter. He buys his cloths at Deseret Industries. You should see some of the shoes he has brought home. He can fix anything. My dad, who taught ag mechanics, was amazed at his abilities where cars were concerned. He can't decorate. He is fastidious. I can't believe his closet. One thing I've learned that is great about gays is they HIT the toilet bowl. No missing. And my "husband" taught our son that, too. I didn't realize that cleaning up after a straight guy would be different.

Take care of yourself and what is going on around you so that it doesn't create more chaos and you will make it. You've come a long ways since you used to post!

And, Beth, we all love you here. We hate it when you leave. P.S. Do you have a son or a daughter?

cl2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------


> I didn't realize that cleaning up after a
> straight guy would be different.

Alternatively, he could clean up after himself! :)

I have a daughter who was assigned male at birth. She came out on 6/30/2018.

I always had a daughter, but I didn't know.

For simplicity sake, and because it makes sense in my mind chronologically, we've decided that until 6/29/2018, I had a son. My daughter was born on 6/30/2018. I slip and sometimes use her legal name, and sometimes I refer to her as "he."

She understands and doesn't mind. Her grandfather is best at consistently using her new name. My three brothers are fine with her being trans. Her father is fine with her being trans. She told me that she never knew that we loved her so much. She knows that we don't understand in the true sense of understanding, because being trans is not part or our experience. But we love her and respect her and don't minimize hers.

I told her I'd always wanted a daughter too. :)

(not proofreading)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/04/2020 02:01PM by Beth.

A while back, while reading something here on RfM, I thought that I wish I could be as loving as Beth is.

I guess I'm going to have to say it again. (My kids say I repeat myself.)

That Beth would accept her daughter was never in question. What is really cool is the way her father and brothers reacted. It takes a lot of courage and integrity for largely traditional men to adjust to such a change.

Can you imagine the joy that comes when an anxious young person realizes how deeply s/he is loved?

Thank you for your love, kindness, and support. I get sick to my stomach when I expose myself like this.

Thank you for not beating me down.

"So I am REALLY happy for you if this is not your day-to-day reality."

So when Mormon leaders get up to their pulpit this is a blessing that they could talk about but will they? Their god is one of skin deep depth. They worship (cursing.)