Hello all, below I not-so-briefly discuss my personal experiences with mental illness. If discussion about the potential for self-harm associated with depression and/or other mental illness is disturbing to you, please skip this post. If you need help for depression, please reach out for professional help. You matter and you deserve to feel better.

TL;DR: I achieved significant relief from severe treatment resistant, chronic major depression by undergoing transcranial magnetic stimulation (TMS), and I highly recommend it. It really worked for me in a life-changing way.

For the whole blahblah, keep reading


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I'm posting this here because experiences with Mormonism and chronic major depression can go hand-in-hand. For a lot of people, some combination of medication and therapy is effective treatment that restores the natural range of mood. Thank science for giving the world these helpful treatments. Otherwise, I doubt I'd be here today.

However, there's a difference between just surviving this illness and achieving real remission of symptoms, and for me, meds and therapy kept me alive, but that was the extent of it. I still suffered daily from persistent depressive mood and severe physical symptoms, like fatigue, absence of drive and motivation, cognitive fogginess, and blunted ability to feel pleasant sensation (clinical term: anhedonia).

Througout adulthood I've been on 6 different SSRI/SNRI medications, all of which helped me not want to actively kill myself or passively just lie down and die, but as far as restoring functionality, I have had to force myself through sheer will to maintain an acceptable contribution in life, earn my keep and not drag everyone I love into my unstable interior hellscape. They call people like me treatment resistant. For me, there's only so much that a prescription can do. Don't get me wrong, being alive is the most important thing, but nobody likes pain, and I have always wished to be fully free from this illness.

In early December, I felt the onset of yet another episode, and on top of the discomfort of the relapse, I also had a deep sense of futility and frustration about being mentally ill. I was angry about this being my lot in life and that I have to work so hard just to keep bobbing along and never, ever feeling truly okay, the way others seem to. Even others with depression.

It makes you feel additional guilt because you realize how ungrateful you are for the luxury of every day above ground, the privilege of living in a safe country with a beautiful family and all the perks of modern life, but at the same time, the demon disease comes and goes as it wants and you just can't get your stuff together. I'm not expecting life to be Candyland. I am mindful of how tremendously lucky I am to be here. I just always wished that my first thoughts on waking up in the morning weren't "oh f**k, here we go again".

Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation is an FDA approved treatment for treatment resistant depression. It's been around for years now and I honestly don't know wtf my doctor wasn't thinking and why I didn't get into it sooner.

TMS uses a very strong magnet, similar in strength to an MRI (2-3 Tesla) to induce neural networks to fire in the left frontotemporal cortex of the brain, about 2-5 cm deep. Repeated firing sessions strengthen the firing patterns and blood flow to this chronically underactive center of the depressed brain. Eventually, this activity normalizes and you no longer need the magnetic help to keep this part of the brain working properly.

Essentially, you sit in a dentist-type chair, they put this curved happy hat on you, you hold still, the magnet cycles through firing, and via the miracle of the electromagnetic field, you deliver stimulus directly to the brain without having to deal with all that stubborn skull. No anesthesia, no memory loss, no convulsions. It feels like a woodpecker is highly interested in your noggin. Some people have a lot of trouble with this, but they can adjust the dosage if so. For me, it was nothing. Considering I would have done anything to get better, the mildly obnoxious pecking was easily put out of mind.

I had 36 sessions, about 28 mins each of TMS. Dosage is tailored to the individual. I required a pretty high level of zappage, most people take less magnet and shorter sessions.

The verdict is that in 7 weeks, my weekly self-scored depression inventory score went from 17 (moderately severe) to 3 (non-symptomatic).

I sleep better and my nightmares are gone. I have far less pain and fatigue. Food even tastes better, so I tend to eat more slowly and feel more full on less food. I feel basically pleasant, as if someone replaced a defective battery inside me. I have drive and motivation, I feel good after exercise for the first time ever, I have more stamina overall. I feel gratitude and optimism, interest in activities. It's 180 degrees from my usual everyday experience of life.

To sum it up, it feels as if there's been a loud car alarm sounding 24/7 wherever I am, asleep or awake, for the last 30 years, and someone finally turned it off. Echoing silence from the agony machine inside my mind. It's amazing relief.

I want exmos to be aware that this is an option for chronic depression and that I can say it has worked better and faster than any treatment I've ever had, and I had a really nasty case of treatment resistant depression which is now in remission. Most studies say I should continue this way. At 5 years post TMS, 80% of people polled report no return of symptoms, but maintenance treatments are available if necessary.

The internet is full of info about TMS but if anyone has questions for me, post them here or if you want to email me, maybe Concrete Zipper can pass your message along if that's okay. I don't mind answering personal inquiries in any case.

Be well, y"all. You deserve it.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/09/2020 04:36PM by ptbarnum.

I just want to say again that it's great having you here. Sometimes insight and humor result from great pain. I'm glad you have found something that works and that we all get to benefit from who you are.

Thank you! It feels good to have such an awesome group of people to talk to.

PT, I haven’t gotten a chance to read this all, but I have a fam member who desperately needs help.


Thank you for being so brave as to post this.

Looking forward to a moment when I can carefully read what you’ve written.

I've been resistant to any brain zappage, but as you wrote, I try to accept that this is my lot in life, and that there are times that my meds will up and quit, and I'll be out of commission for two weeks titrating down and titrating up, and never really feeling or acting even. I *know* that it's only a matter of time before I crash. It's a similar feeling to knowing that you're mortal and can't do a damn thing about it. February is one of my worst months. I'm going to ask my head doctor about zapping my brain.

So glad there's no memory loss. The possibility of memory loss terrifies me.

At the risk of digression, the question of memory and identity is explored in a fascinating and tragic way in Netflix's Tell Me Who I Am. It's very good.

I'll have to watch it. Really curious now because I am dealing with memories and the mixed up sense of identity I had as a kid, with all the gaslighting and projection in our house.

It's an excellent show.

I know exactly what you mean about having to titrate up and down. Winter has always been tough for me, too. When I noticed I was on the downward slide again, I was really stressed because looking at the list of meds online, I really didn't have any new pill options. I was considering ECT, but it's a really high commitment treatment and I was concerned about the memory loss. I already deal with an ADHD memory and dont want to lose more function.

I was also looking into Spravato, the ketamine nose spray. People are getting pretty good results on that, but you can't drive after treatment due to sedation and I felt a little iffy on the dissociative experience people report. The neurologist suggested I do two weeks of TMS first, because it's so well tolerated and it can usually be determined after that time if TMS is going to work, and we could talk about Spravato after that. I noticed better sleep and less agitation after my first two sessions and it was steady improvement from there.

I wish I'd done it much sooner. There's just so much less "gravity" to push against inside in order to get my day done and things that are supposed to feel good, like a job well done, or a nice walk, really actually feel good, and I can get into goal-directed activity without me having to cconstantly pep talk myself along. If you do try it, I'd be really interested to know how it goes for you.

I just emailed my head doctor and asked her if we can schedule an appt to discuss it.

Gravity - that a great way to put it. Sometimes it feel like I'm wearing boots meant for walking on the moon.

:)

Yes, I despair as the list of drugs to try gets shorter and shorter.

ETA: Oh, and one of the reasons I have the ducks is that I am *forced* to go outside every.single.day. I work from home, and there are times I would let the dog out, let the dog in, let the dog out, let the dog in, and not go outside for days.

I can't do that with the ducks.

It's easier for me to take care of others than it is to take care of myself. Self-care be damned! ;)



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 02/09/2020 11:53PM by Beth.

Do you have full spectrum lights in the house? Maybe you should invest in some of those. They mimic actual sunlight. Just because a light is white doesn’t mean its colors are evenly distributed. It’s just faking out your eyes to look white. That’s why LED lighting looks a little weird. Full spectrum will likely help. You can also get lamps designed with extra blue for Seasonal Affective Disorder.

I need to try something new. I actually have been thinking that the pills are slowing me down and i am tired of taking so many. I wonder if my insurance would cover it. Is it a new treatment? I've done the whole shock my whole brain thing and really don't want to do that again. I was desperate at that time though.

I do think there is a connection between severity of depression when being in a cult for decades though compared to the average joe depression. I have crazy cult ideas still in my brain that bring me down and i haven't stepped in a church in 3 years. That sh#t stays in your brain forever it seems. The neverending indoctrination since you could walk.

I think that with some types of mental illness, nature/nurture can play a part in the severity of the episodes. BUT, and it's a big but, that doesn't mean that people who outwardly appear to have less severe symptoms are not in the same amount of distress, if that makes sense.

We can't know how other people experience depression, so it's hard/futile to say we're better or worse than other people.

My doctor says that the label is just a jumping-off point, and there is a lot of overlap of symptoms of numerous mental disorders, so sometimes the disorders can't be differentiated from each other.

Instead, she treats the symptoms in partnership with me. It's a delicate balance, and she relies on me to be honest with myself and with her. For some crazy reason, I want to please my shrinks so they won't feel bad if I'm not improving.

I really try hard to bring back positive results to my therapist and doctors, because I don't want to make them feel like they're not helping. Actually, trying really hard to please them is a good thing, I think, because you might be more diligent about sticking with the program they've advised and not giving up before you've really tried to see how it's working. It's still a developing specialty and unfortunately "instant relief" doesn't happen for mental illness. TMS working on my MDD is the closest thing I've ever had to "quick fix", like the results I get when taking antibiotics for strep throat, but it still took 7 weeks.

I try to avoid comparisons with others, or view myself as having it better or worse than someone else.
Pain is pain. I have learned to take people at their word about their mental anguish without judging based on appearances, because I've always been able to "pass" right up until the catatonia sets in.

(Although I freely admit that I will make comparisons and throw endless shade at Gwyneth Paltrow. She drives me fruity. If she doesn't want to be publicly swatted at by peasants like me, she should stop parading around acting like a piñata. She can't whine to me about feeling traumatized. I can't hear her on that. Maybe "my bad", but not a bad I feel like I need to work on.)

I think your doctor's approach is a good one. I have a really complex set of health issues, a whole group of symptoms that overlap diagnoses to a confusing degree. The doctors and I try to puzzle out what's depression and what's uncontrolled sleep disorders, or is it hormones, CPTSD or ADHD? Narcolepsy this time, or unstable blood pressure? Autoimmune dysfunction NOS? "Does it matter?" I want to whine.

It kind of does matter and kind of doesn't. My doctor says labels are only useful as tools to drive treatment. Treatment not working? Then we need to do a more refined differential diagnosis.

I knew depression was a huge piece of the puzzle and now that it's gone, I find I have the wherewithal to deal better with the stuff that probably won't ever truly be cured. I actually also think I feel less subjective pain overall, bodywide, due to better serotonin and dopamine signaling. I also have to work a lot less to feel optimistic that maybe someday, they can fix the other stuff.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/10/2020 12:58AM by ptbarnum.

I think trying is key. Like you are climbing a ladder step by step. I swear everything i was trying was not doing anything for like 2 years at minimum. I found that a combination of things have helped me. From counseling to surgery to acupuncture to working smarter to reading books about the subjects i was dealing with. Lately i have been talking to mediums because a lot of my close friends have passed on and i know they want to help me get to where i need to be at a stronger and happier position with a family of my own possibly. I will say the mormon religion adds a whole new weight on depression that the professionals are now realizing. Trying to become a perfection that you can never become and always feeling guilty and not enough no matter what you do i s depressing.

Yea my counselor said the same thing that i should not compare myself with others. I do not do it as much as i used to but when cult leaders have multiple homes and you just rent a room its hard to not see the injustice or unfairness.

I was actually reading about ECT when I came across an article about TMS. It really seems like a lot of effort put on by the patient but I was ready to do it if necessary. Whatever works, right? Honestly, when I realized I was facing another episode I was ready to lick batteries if it would have an impact.

Compared to ECT, TMS seems really easy. My insurance covered 80%, because I had some deductible to meet, but they were actually really easy to get the authorization from. The doctor said now that some longer range studies are in on the first groups of patients, the insurance companies are getting much more on board because people are doing really well longer term and that means less expense on their part for meds.

Some people have gotten off their depression meds altogether after TMS. I watched a YouTuber's vlog and she was able to taper off and has been stable for 2 years. I'm not quite ready for that, but I do also have other things going on that I think the SSRI does a good job for.

I don't think it's any coincidence that UT is where the cult is headquartered and also the state with some of the highest consumption of antidepressants in the US. I think that the practice of Mormonism alone could depress Strawberry Shortcake. Add in the toxic family dynamic that's so common in the cult...I think it's a recipe for long term suffering.

I did ECT. It was a desperate situation. The doc had never seen someone as depressed as me and he said that before the first ECT shock. I wanted the F#ck out of this life. My life was so horrible with the religion and my family that attempting suicide was like the easiest decision i had ever made. It was easier than like signing my name or walking through a door. My best chance of a better life was in the next life. This life was f#cked from almost day one. I will say nintendo was alright but everything else was sh#t.

TMS sounds like something Medicaid or your state’s equivalent would cover. I would stay away from TBM unless you think your problem stems from not living the gospel fully enough.

No, they found through psychologist evaluation that my problems stemmed from the religion and child abuse plus physical pain from a car accident as well. My brain fought the indoctrination nearly my entire life.

"I wanted the f#ck out of this life."

Oh, goodness, yes, I've felt that. I'm so glad we both chose treatment instead.

Counseling has probably helped me the most. Most of the crazy ideas in my head came from religion. I really wanted to tell my experiences to a sane adult. Counselors are vetted every week so they have to be solid mentally. Most of the adults in that religion were not sane and i don't care what anyone says. Their brains have been compromised with brainwashing and indoctrination or whatever term you want to use. I am curious about this TMS though as long as its a simple thing. ECT was not a simple thing.

Kudos to all who have responded so far!

For decades, I suffered from what was diagnosed as either Severe Depressive Disorder, or in one jolly case, BiPolar Disorder. (The latter was because I had ventured out on my own, a 40-year-old, well-employed and competent adult, and dared to buy a new blue bicycle whose colors and features delighted me.

My then-ex (from whom I was already separated, in process of divorcing) began screaming that this purchase (which did not involve him at all) was "proof" that I was financially irresponsible and should not have custody of my son (for whom I had been essentially a single mother for more than a decade.)

Because he threatened both me and anyone who might testify on my behalf, he (who had never so much as changed a diaper or fed a night-time bottle) got custody of our son from age 11 until age 18.

At age 18, my son rented a U-Haul truck and moved out here to New Mexico, where he has remained ever since. He loves it here and I take great joy in having him around. He is a fine young man.

I enjoyed that bike for a number of years, until other health problems made it difficult for me to ride. Not just the joy of mobility, the wind in my hair, and all the attendant joys that come with bike-riding, but also the knowledge that my ex would have prevented the purchase if he could have, with his Grinch's heart that is several sizes too small.

I gradually realized that for me, depression started losing its grip as the various depressing situations disappeared. Once the ex was out of my life, POOF! There went a huge one. After retiring from a job I had never wanted in the first place, I could almost feel depression rising from my heart like a helium-powered balloon. (And they pay me WELL to be unemployed!!)

Anti-Depressants never helped me. What helped was to get out of the depressing situations. The ex is out of my life; my son lives in the same town I do and we get together (with his daughters, the cutest little pixies ever) fairly often, I am retired from the job I so thoroughly disliked, and am married to the love of my life. And I am one of the happiest people I know.

If you can identify and rid yourself of your particular depressors, you will become a good deal better.

Wow. A blue bike being a sign of BP. Do you mind if I share that one in my trauma support group? There are a few people with BP who will get a kick out of such a way off target diagnostic approach. I'll let you know how many of them have blue bikes.

Seriously, that's a really awful experience, Catnip. I'm glad you are free of that person, that you have a relationship with your kid/grandkids and he's happy. It sounds like it was a very painful experience and to be gaslighted about having BP and losing custody over a simple purchase...im shaking my head at the bitter unfairness. That really shouldn't have been done to you and I'm so happy for you that you have overcome. The people here at RfM are so resilient. I'm amazed at the strength and courage of our stories.

I agree with you that getting rid of the depressing situations or people is a key element. I think getting into trauma treatment was very important for me because I needed more than just distance from my father, I needed to exorcise his voice from my mind.

Narcissists seem to somehow install a little psychic copy of themselves inside their victims. Like a malevolent little homunculus that haunts you no matter how physically distant you are from the narcissist. You can't get rid of a depressing other person if a piece of them is seemingly embedded in your brain. Trauma therapy has helped excise that depressing presence, but the constant bland gray pall was ever present in my life regardless of the gains against my CPTSD.

I learned lot of great, effective mental hygiene strategies over the years and sticking to them has made a big difference in how successfully I function. Choosing relationships, choosing your media consumption, your locations, it's all super important.

My biggest problems overall were anhedonia and avolition. With those symptoms it really didn't matter who I was with or what situations I was in. Things could be great by all general standards and yet the symptoms were there. They might, on a scale of 1-10 hang out at a 4, or flare up to 8. Just always there, making an otherwise fine time of life into "meh". That's just gone now, and good riddance.

I too had a narcissist father and i feel your pain. I wanted to die everyday being around that guy and i am not even joking. I am still running from that guy and i have not been under the same roof as him in 5 years. People do not understand the destruction these types can cause on another human being until there is nothing left of that human being. Trauma is a hard and tricky thing to live with. My father is one of my biggest obstacles psychologically. The guy brought great terror upon me. Combine a narcissist parent with a cult-like religion and you are in the fight of your life just to keep a fraction of yourself and your sanity.

Thank you for saying that. Shaking my head here...I wish you didn't have any of that happen to you, but I feel so much less isolated just hearing you express it that way. Everything you said was my experience too. So true, I'm still running.

Sometimes, I feel like such a freak because I try and describe the surreal experience of narcissistic abuse and I can't find the words to convey it well enough to people IRL. I've confided in people only to have them encourage me to "work it out" with him or "forgive and forget, never give up on family". I've had people who *witnessed* some of his behavior ask me to get back in contact because he's old and he "loves and misses me". I mean, seriously, I am not sure what part of "he wants to kill me" is so hard to understand, but a lot of times, other people's advice does carry weight with me and so I get thrown into self-doubt.

Trauma is SO tricky. Until I see something like what you just said. Then I feel right with my narrative again. Then I know I'm not overreacting, that I am not the one who's deluded...it's just most of the people I've tried to share with just don't get it, they're not able to really hear me, and they're the ones in denial when they spout "family bond" platitudes, not me.

It's a really crappy squadron to belong to, I admit, but it's nice to be understood and know I'm not flying solo.

I could never explain narcissistic abuse to anyone that has never experienced it in a million years. I've been doing ok with the no contact thing thus far. I definitely believe people when they say there is no cure for narcissism. The narcissist will never admit or never see that anything is wrong with them in the first place. To the narcissist i am the one that is always at fault and ALWAYS the one that is screwed up in the head. Its like a psychological merry-go-round of psychological abuse. I had to go no contact and i don't care how guilty any family from anywhere makes me feel about it. They did not live my life.

I agree with this getting out or away from things that i knew negatively affected me like family and religion i got better quicker than with any pills. Pills don't do a whole lot for me either. I almost feel drowned by pills and i do hope to get off of most of them eventually.

It's FDA approved but only for major depressive disorder. This is not for the blues. This is for debilitating depression.

With that clear, it does seem like a good thing:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5846193/

My therapist has saved me. I couldn't get off the bed with too much Prozac. I considered it painful numbness. I'm only on 10 mg of Prozac, which is what I finally decided on because everything else made me worse--suicidal. I'm always on the edge of suicidal or what is the term? I can't think of it and I'm on the wrong computer to look up a letter I wrote it in. I didn't commit suicide after I found out my boyfriend was gay because I thought you went to hell per mormon teachings. I wanted to cease to exist and I didn't see how that was possible. I somehow made it here. My son and brother, who have severe anxiety and my son has attempted suicide twice, think I don't have anxiety. I've just had to push through it. I've always been the one everyone came to with their problems and I haven't always been able to have someone to go to except my therapist, who is a genius. I've been seeing him for 24 or so years.

When I didn't go outside, like Beth says, he made assignments that I just go out and walk around the house and come back in. When I didn't go downstairs for weeks on end, he assigned me to go down once a day. When the upstairs toilet started leaking under the floor and my "husband" pulled it up, I had to go downstairs to use the bathroom, so that forced me to go down there.

At one time, I was planning how to kill my kids and then kill myself. I didn't tell anyone including my therapist, who I started seeing at that time. I just casually mentioned it to my sister one day 6 months later and she about lost it. I couldn't figure out how to kill my kids without hurting them, so I stayed and I'm still here. I stay for my kids. They are my reason for sticking around when I don't want to. I've stuck around since I was 25 and I'm 62.

I could never explain how low I've been. I lean on my parents. I actually do believe in an afterlife. My mother asked me once how bad it got. My brother had a brain bleed just at the time my "husband" left me and my parents had to take care of him. She asked me how bad it got and I started to sob and I told her, "I'll NEVER allow myself to go through that again." When she died, I felt her give me peace, that she got it, that she knew what I had been through and they both give me peace. My parents were far from perfect, but I know they are there for me.

There are days I'm surprised I made it to where I am. Many days. I have severe PTSD. I have been diagnosed.

For a long time I lived like the movie inception talks about. I didn't know what sphere I was in. I was with my "husband" when I saw that movie and I leaned over to him and said, "I didn't know other people feel this way."

This past year has been tough. Today started out bad. Woke up feeling "OFF." I've been taking pseudoephedrine cold and flu medication for over 2 weeks now and it tends to push me over the edge. I woke up at about 2 a.m. and didn't dare go back to sleep, so I sat up in bed so I wouldn't cough, and watched TV trying to make it to morning.

My dogs keep me going. Losing them is living hell. This set of dogs, one is chubby and I started walking them every day to help him lose weight and now they DEPEND on me to walk them even if I don't want to. They wait and watch for signs of when we are leaving for a walk. I do things for others and not for myself and I feel really guilty if I don't take my dogs for a walk. Otherwise, I wouldn't walk most days. It gets me out. Yesterday, I fell on the slick pavement, but I'll go again today if it isn't too cold (it is in the single digits this morning).

Making peace with my "husband" helped. Having my old boyfriend back in my life has helped. My daughter going off to Alaska again last Friday has not helped. My son's issues haven't helped. The thing that has helped my son with his issues is marijuana and this little prude of a mother buys it for him. I've seen the change in him. He got off alcohol, drugs, suboxone that he was on for 10 years, with marijuana. My exmo therapist says it is the drug of the future for mental health patients. Many of his are on it. I haven't tried it yet. If my brother could use it, he would, but he worries about having an accident at work. They don't drug test there, but he is a manager and if something went wrong. He says it makes all the difference.

I do stick around for my kids. Their dad already caused enough trauma in their lives. I certainly am not going to do more than I already do. But I just hang on most days. Since I lost my job over a year ago, it has been really tough even if I have a job. That job saved me.

I also had an aunt who used to mail me a little money just out of the blue and it seemed to show up on days I needed it more than ever. She and her husband were quite wealthy. She considered me her favorite niece. Her daughter was 3 days older than I am and she died at age 37. She was an angel. I had horrible financial problems because I was such a mess. I didn't divorce my husband because I couldn't handle the work it would take and he never paid me child support or spousal support. Now I know what I can get if I so choose should I divorce. In reality, he didn't deserve and doesn't deserve the fact that I have made peace with him. He doesn't deserve his kids in his life. But it is what I had to do for my kids.

I completely credit my therapist for saving me. I still go see him.

Oh, walking helped me a lot, too. I walked miles and miles after the worst years were over. I know I need to get out and walk now, but I don't. I usually walk at least 5 miles or more a day. I did try many other meds, but they did make me suicidal. I had a horrible time getting off Effexor. I had brain shivers. It took forever to get any Xanax from anyone and I don't use it daily. I use it when I feel like I'm going over the edge and it keeps me just above the edge.

Oh, I had a general practitioner diagnosed me with bipolar after talking to me 5 minutes. I was going to take the meds, but then I remembered I had been going to my therapist for YEARS and I talked to him. He was furious that the GP felt he could diagnose me. He considers my diagnosis severe depression. He said he WISHES he had ever seen me manic like bipolar causes and then he told me some of the things his patients who are bipolar are done like charging $23,000 in one store one day.

And, thanks for this post, typing this out has snapped me out of whatever it was that was making me feel so off this morning and now I'm going to actually work.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 02/11/2020 11:22AM by cl2.

<<<virtual hug>>>

I have so many responses for you but I too have to work. Just hoping that telling you how much I'm nodding my head in understanding and how deeply what you said resonates with me gives you a good vibe and that the cold/cold meds let up on you. I can't take pseudoephedrine products, they do major weirdness to my mind.

Be safe, be well. I am thinking of you all today.

I don't really know what keeps me going cl2 i really don't. Maybe i am just stubborn. I face the trustee at the court house in a couple weeks and am a little nervous for that. My dead best friend has a lot of faith in me and i guess i have a lot of support among the dead according to the mediums. I have never had a wife or kids or a actually home of my own. I guess you could say i have never actually had a real life. I am probably a professional at avoiding people and life because i was terrified of my parents for most my life always thinking of ways to not be home. Counseling has probably helped me more than pills as well. The abused kid within me wants to talk about the injustice that was done to him back in the day. My therapist says i am probably sixteen years old mentally now when i started at about thirteen years old. So counseling has made me age finally to a more mature level. I do show signs of being an adult like showing compassion for others and not just thinking about my own gratification. So what the psychologist told me about counseling being the only thing that will really work for my case has shown to be true thus far. The adults who are my age all agree that i should have been removed from the home at age 13 and put in a foster care home. But hell i was too scared back then and i am still scared now. Not quite as scared as i used to be but i don't know how to live a real life. I know how to survive barely. Work and make the paper, use the paper to buy food, go to sleep, repeat. Is there an end to this survival mentallity. I think so eventually. The dead have more confidence in me then they should. I really don't know how this story plays out. Keep re-adjusting as i go really. I too wanted to cease to exist. It is horrible to remember your own parents turning against you. Bury those memories as deep as possible but they always come back especially when you are trying to get better in therapy. Unfortunately you can not erase memories or go back in time and change certain events. So you have to live with it forever i guess and not let it ruin your life. Can't let the actions of my parents ruin my life. The fact that they were willing to save their own hide and let me take the fall kills me the most probably.

I knew my parents loved me (most of the time). My therapist used to ask me why I didn't ask for help from my parents and that just wasn't my way. I always took care of myself unlike some of my brothers and sisters. They knew I'd do what it took to take care of things, but I didn't do such a good job of it. If I hadn't had my husband and his boyfriend abusing me emotionally and mentally, I would have done better. They wanted to take my kids from me and admit me to a mental health ward. I would have murdered someone before that happened. I was so traumatized by my phone calls with my ex that I thought the lady on the automatic teller was angry at me. I lived in fear and I still live in fear. My feeling has been for a long time that as you grow older, you just take on more baggage and you have to live with it.

My daughter and her husband left the other day and my daughter gave me a pillow that says something about saying good-bye. She said her mormon mom friend and her MIL had cried when she gave them the pillow. I didn't cry. BUT THEN she had shown me the pillow just before she gave it to her mormon mom and I thought, "I would have liked her to give me that pillow." So I had seen it and worked through my feelings about her again giving something like that to her mormon mom. She has several mormon moms. Oh, and she respects her father 100%, but not me. I've chosen not to battle with her any longer. My therapist told me, "this is your daughter's pattern. You can react or you can just say, oh this is Kiara." And that is what I've chosen to do. She doesn't get it. someday she will. Anyway, I cry all the time and she has always hated it as she felt the need to fix things for me, but then I don't cry when she leaves. I shut down. I have to to survive. I have learned not to think about it.

When I had just found out my boyfriend was gay, we went to his friend's house for Sunday dinner. His friend is gay and he is married. At the time, they had a tiny baby. He almost dropped the baby and he said to her, "Just don't think about it" when she was crying. That really hit me. I compartmentalize really well. I have to. That is how I live. I don't acknowledge things to myself.

I am lucky in that I had my parents, although I helped my mother. My father used to say to me, 'How'd you do that?" when I'd talk my mother out of being upset. I took in my niece and younger brother when my life was a mess and they needed me. I just had my nephew living here last fall for 2 months. AND I let my husband move back into the house I paid for. So I've had to learn to take care of myself as there is nobody there to take care of me except my therapist.

Yes, talk therapy is what has helped me. I tried several drugs besides Prozac and they really did cause suicidal ideation in a bad way. I could easily become an addict to something. My addiction is sugar and I'm diabetic. But I'm too cheap to buy alcohol and I haven't tried marijuana, which I need to as I work at home and nobody cares if I use it.

But that isn't what I was going to say. Again, I'll tell you that going in front of the trustee is going to be a breeze, at least from my experience. It was so much easier than anything else I had gone through over finances. I was sure it was going to be living hell. I said that I just laid on the bed for a month. I didn't work as I get paid by production and I wasn't scheduled. I probably earned $150 that month. I got check loans. I've talked about that before. I had 12 at one time. I was about as broken as you can be and NOBODY NOTICED supposedly. Or they don't want to notice.

I do feel that my dead parents do help me. I don't like to share that here, but there are things that have happened that have given me reason to believe they are there. I have my siblings. My little sister now takes care of our disabled brothers' issues, so I at least don't have to do that. I watch out for my little brother and that sister. My other sister and I don't speak. She was my bully all my life. She is 17 months older and still active mormon, but she doesn't believe.

Anyway, you are doing so much better, Warrior. I can see it. I can see it in your posts. I don't know how my story plays out either and I'm 62. My parents both died at 76, so I may not be around all that much longer, but I feel I owe it to my kids to stay as long as I can as I chose to have them. I think having children is really selfish. I didn't used to think that.

And, thank you ptbarnum for your posts, and I understand what you mean by not taking pseudoephedrine. I can't stop coughing and that is the only thing that seems to help. I couldn't stop coughing one night a few days ago no matter what I did. I was afraid I'd have to go to the ER. But I also forget what it does to me and it hit during the night. Scared me.

Warrior, the visit with the trustee is going to be simple compared to what you've been through. Just getting it over with is the big thing. Wish you could go TODAY and just get it over with.

Yea i wish i could get it over today as well. It was pretty cool to go to one of the cash loan places and they said they had received the banktrupcy notice. I already paid back what they lent me but the insane interest they put on those i still owed a lot. I put in my calendar to talk to my person who gives me a psych and anxiety med about TMS, she is not a psychiatrist but she can still prescribe. I absolutely refuse to see males in the mental health field. I've just had bad experiences with males all around in my life. As far as surgeons go males have been excellent but counseling, psychology and psychiatry is a womens field in my opinion at least for me. I always feel like men are in this good ol boy club and that interferes with my progress. No i am not in your good ol' boy club and i am not your friend and yes the good ol' boy club(cult mentallity) made my whole life a literal hell is what i want to say to these guys. The good ol' boy club left me with no support and no options back in the day and no it was not funny.

Sorry, PTBarnum and Catnip and others who have had to fight depression. You are very strong. When you're depressed, you are the least likely to want to do anything at all, let alone anything challenging, to help yourself. You don't think anything will help, in the first place, so you just sit there. There is help for depression, even the worst, longest-lasting clinical depression! Get professional help from a (non-Mormon) qualified psychiatrist! In addition, when you are able, make some positive changes in your life. You decide what changes you need. Take care of your health. Exercise. Everything helps.

When I finally could afford a psychiatrist--and I found a great one--I was diagnosed with PTSD. I had been severely tortured by my older brother, all of my life, until I left home to go to BYU (the only university my parents would allow). My parents pushed me into hastily marrying an RM in the temple, after knowing him only 6 months, and never meeting his family. He had a secret history of assault and battery, and he beat me almost every day, for no reason. I ended up with broken bones and other scars, and the psychological effects of near-death experiences, when he would beat or strangle me into unconsciousness, and I was afraid I was going to die, and then I wanted to die. The total recovery from these traumas has been very difficult and very slow, but, the beginning stages of recovery were very rapid.

The psychiatrist tried many different groups of antidepressants on me, and nothing worked. Most made me jittery. Zoloft put me in a mental fog, after the headache symptoms finally stopped. Finally, he diagnosed me with PTSD and anxiety disorder, and not depression. I was glad I didn't need any antidepressants. He taught me breathing techniques, meditation, and mind-control, to handle the anxiety. With his help, I eliminated a lot of the PTSD "triggers" in my life. It's no longer a problem. Getting the correct diagnosis, and finally knowing the root cause of my distress did wonders for me, and put me on the road to recovery. I have done the same life-adjustments, as you described.

"If you want to recover from depression, first make sure you're not surrounded by assholes!"

After I stopped trying all the antidepressants, and started facing up to my problems, reality wasn't as bad as the Mormon cult's view of things. What in my life made me depressed? I was twice-divorced and permanently single, but I was happy that way. No more second Mormon husband cheating on me, lying to me (I didn't know about the cheating until after the divorce), constantly putting me down, neglecting our family, and constantly criticizing and punishing our children when he did see them. What was making me unhappy was the way the Mormons were treating me, because I was single. I was upset with their constant efforts to set me up with dysfunctional Mormon men, and pestering me to get married in the temple. My children were being marginalized, too, and we were referred to as "a broken home." We weren't broken at all, but very loving and supportive of each other, balanced, and whole. The Mormons threatened my children in Primary, that our family would never even see each other in the afterlife. It's a long story. Sorry to ramble.

Instead of forgetting about myself, as the Mormons teach you to do, my psychiatrist told me to start examining my self and my life. I realized that I felt the very worst on Sundays. I felt like dirt, like a failure, hopeless, in a state of despair--why even try? I "magnified my callings" in music, and as teacher of the the "problem" teen-aged class in Sunday School. I liked the kids, and the only "problem had been that they had been bored, and had been taught those same lessons over and over. It was rewarding to remedy that and allow the kids to blossom, (but I did break a few rules in doing so). So what was wrong? I didn't like the subject I was teaching—I was teaching those kids LIES from the lesson manual. I didn't like the words to the hymns, and I had the choir sing the old, higher-keyed, brighter-sounding versions. I didn't like hearing the same boring old re-cycled conference talks in sacrament meeting, many of which were read.

My career was stressful and challenging, but I liked it, and liked the money, and when I got home from work, I would greet the kids, and would be ready to make a nice dinner and have a pleasant evening with them. I loved those days. When I got home from church on Sundays, I would tell my kids, "I'm going to disappear for 20 minutes, and then order us a pizza." I would immediately crawl into bed, with my clothes still on, and pull up the covers over my head, and lie there for 20 minutes. It was like I needed to decompress, or shut out all the awful-ness, and recharge my batteries, and get back to being myself. Luckily, this worked, and I would get out of that bed, and shake off the Sunday uniform, and reconnect to who I REALLY was--a loving mother of great children, a career woman who was doing well, part of a happy family, a head-of-household who deserved respect. An individual.

During the work week, I was as good as anyone else. On Sundays, I was nothing. For a while, I could snap out of it, and would jokingly call it my "Sunday Depression," but soon it began to start on Saturday, the day we get ready for Sunday, with choir rehearsals and lesson preparations and ironing those white shirts, and just thinking about the day of boredom and queasiness. My children said they "hated" church, and it was the only thing we ever argued about. The dark cloud began to linger longer, bleeding into Monday and my work week, and we stopped having fun on weekends, and I was starting to be a downer with my children. I thought there was something wrong with me, and was in denial that there was something wrong with the cult, all the lies, it's negative teachings about single working mothers, its bullying of children, etc. I had stopped going to the temple, because I knew that was bogus. One Wednesday, "hump-day", I was still depressed from the last Sunday, plus was already dreading another music (accompaniment) rehearsal that night, leading into more rehearsals on Saturday, and the performances on Sunday. I do know how debilitating depression can be. I was only mildly depressed, and I couldn't do a good job at work for that entire week. I felt burnt out. I left work early that day, and drove up into the mountains to clear my mind. I made the decision to not put church ahead of my happiness and sanity, not ahead of my children or the career that supported us, so I quit my callings after the last performances that Sunday, and ended up formally resigning with my children, who were overjoyed to leave! Most of their friends were non-Mormons, so no loss there.

The retaliation from the leaders was nasty and cruel--and this was supposed to be a church of "Jesus Christ". Even with all the Mormon harassment and smear campaigns, I became happier! I felt a lifting of a burden the moment I quit my callings and left the church building for the last time! I didn't have to go back there! God would not punish me, because the Mormons and the cult were not of God. I was free! I'll never forget that day. In my case, the depression never returned. I have rare PTDS flashbacks, but no anxiety or depression attached to them. The bad recurring nightmares vanished the day I walked out.

Let me clarify, that since I resigned, I've had the normal ups and downs of a normal life, the death of loved ones, and the cult-related garbage that I complain about here on RFM, such as Mormon shunning and rudeness, Mormon family members trying to steal from me--but nothing has ever been as bad as what my children and I suffered while we were members.

Anyway, I was lucky to find the causes of my unhappiness. I cut off all contact with my bully brother, and my children don't have to deal with him, either. I sued the Mormon relative who stole from me, and recovered most of my money, but not the sentimental heirlooms, and I have no contact with him or his dysfunctional Mormon family.

ARE YOU WILLING TO TRY ANYTHING? TRY THIS! NO SIDE EFFECTS, JUST FUN.
I would recommend anyone who is an active Mormon and is depressed, and is already getting professional help, to take a one month break (or longer) from Mormonism, and to experience that self-discovery, that YOU aren't the sole source of your depression. Of course, there are degrees of depression, but even if you are seriously clinically depressed, you will feel some relief, being temporarily free of the bonds of that cult, and it's negative, fear-based manipulations to take your money. I challenge you to try this! Warning, the Mormons will try to make your life miserable if you go inactive, so you might want to cut off all contact with them during your month of freedom. Set firm boundaries. Don't give the Mormons a chance to make you even more depressed, at this point. Ideally, it would be a relief to take a vacation away from all of this, but most of us can't afford the expense and the time off from work. Don't take time off from work or family or your life—just church. This will give you a clearer picture, of how Mormonism exacerbates your depression.