I left the church about 5 years ago. I always had unanswered questions and doubts. When I was a child and early teen, I subconsciously forced my questions down and learned to ignore the inconsistencies and culture.

After years if questioning I finally decided to let go. I think the final straw was when I told a member of the elders quorum I was studying engineering at a university and his reply was something along the lines of 'Well that'll be a good backup if your future husband ever doesn't have a job.' I put a smile on, thanked him and drove home knowing I was done.

For months after the decision I couldn't bring myself to google any questions. I felt so sinful typing the words and even more when I found more truth in the answers I discovered than in anything I was taught during the years I dedicated to the church.

However, I still struggle to think independently from my LDS training. What is moral without religion to identify it for me? Sometimes I wish I could have continued living my life in the fake reality I was raised in. It seems that either way the church would haunt me. I feel like I'm trying to run from the person the church made me into. I could never go back but I feel so out of place in my new reality. Anyone felt similar and found something that helps?

Hopefully you will wind up in a situation that is very pleasing to you and in which one or two people like and respect you for who you are, whatever that turns out to be.

There's this word/phrase that wasn't in use when I backed away from the church: authentic/be your authentic self.

I think it means becoming comfortable in your own skin and not caring that there are people from your past and present who want you to be another way, their way.

I think telling them to F the F off, with a secure smile, is a sign you're well on your way there. If you're not there yet, don't sweat it.

It doesn't happen right away.

I recommend setting your own pace. Ask questions, listen to others describe their journey, but know that you have your very own path to travel.

There are no guarantees that everything is going to work out, but if you make friends with yourself it helps. It's an imprecise process...

But one thing I am very certain of: mormonism is, and has always been, man-made.

"What is moral without religion to identify it for me?"

I think what you might be searching for, with this question, are your values: what do YOU consider to be of preeminent importance in your own life, in the lives of those closest to you (may or may not include family of birth members ;) ), in your community, and in the country of your nationality?

Using my own life as an example, here are some of the things I consider to be most important, both within my own self, and within other people I am close to, or deal closely with:

1) Being authentic. That what is the "me" others see and experience is (at least most of the time) the "me" I actually am. [The waffling is because I grew up in the entertainment industry, and sometimes it is necessary--for your career and for your survival--that a person be less than authentic for the duration of someone else's active career, or the duration of a film production, or whatever.]

2) Making "the world" [the part of the world that I have any influence on] better than it was before I came through. I clean up public restrooms....I throw away my own trash (and often the discarded trash of others which is in public places), ....I engage with unknown babies and toddlers (when I am standing in line at the grocery store or wherever) so their minds will grow....and I do whatever I can, in whatever area of life, to mitigate whatever needs mitigating as I become aware of it. [*]

3) Non-stop education. I have no idea how people continue to live satisfactory, and internally happy, lives after they have, effectively, "stopped learning." This has always been one of the enduring questions in my life, since I cannot abide situations where I am not continuing to learn. (I would go nutso doing things like dishes or whatever if I did not have access to audio learning materials: lectures on You Tube or whatever.)

4) I vote. Every single election, I vote. And I do my homework first, so I am confident that whoever I vote for, or whichever issue I vote on, is going to be the best possible for the welfare of everyone concerned. (I even check out all the endless candidates for judicial offices, to make sure that the judges I vote for or against--it is "Yes" or "No" votes on judicial offices where I live--will be the best for everyone who might be personally affected by those judges in the future.)

A sobering percentage of people I once knew (throughout my years in school, people I worked with in the industry, etc.) are now deceased, and I am VERY much aware that, at some point, every life ends. When my own life ends, I want to know that I lived my life the very best I knew how, and was capable of doing.

These are MY basic values, just off the top of my head.

As you figure out YOUR basic values, I think you will likely discover that "morals" are part of the package you have (probably already) put together--you just haven't thought of them in this way before.

I wish you every good thing!

[*] This guy is the absolute global champion of "making the world a better place": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXcoPO76UyA



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 02/16/2020 11:59PM by Tevai.

I was going to answer on this point too, but as usual, Tevai did it much better than me ;-)

The gist of my intended contribution was as follows:

I wasn't a mormon but I was a Christian (we're talking more than 40 years ago). When I stopped believing, I didn't throw all the generally positive values which I got from my judaeo-christian upbringing. Most (genuine, i.e. in the gospels) christian values are pretty good. The 10 commandments are fine (except for the ones about worshipping god ;-), etc., etc.

I realize it's a bit more complicated with mormonism because it makes sins out of trivial things like drinking coffee, but those false values are pretty easy to identify and close down. For the rest, I suggest that you continue as you were, since it's clear you're somebody who takes values seriously and strives to remain moral (as I do).

You'll be just as "good" as you were before leaving the so-called church (if not better ;-)

Best wishes to you

Tom in Paris



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/17/2020 09:42AM by Soft Machine.

Why are we here? Because we are here. Roll the bones.

I don't think that I ever truly believed!!!

2 kinds of Mormons:

Heritage / Legacy MORmONS, born into it

'Converts' (the rest of us)


It's my informal opinion that a high % of converts joined (converted =?) when we were in a stress situation, parents (me), careers, other family situations, etc.

I don't think those were really conversions to the gospel, they were either a form of escape or 'converted' to the missionaries, possibly something else...

Don't worry about it, life will hopefully go on!

Ignorance is bliss ? Wasn't that the story of Adam and Eve ?

Really tough to get over and b urself after all that progamming.
Belief is crazy, study it understand the power it has over us. I started out going to aplogetic sites with my questions, finally got mad enough to really start looking, at times I thought am I the one that screwed up here.

I was a convert but 33 years of it will effect u the rest of ur life, I tell my kids I graduated from that school, but will never forget it.

I have a saying I have stuck to and u can apply to everything, (IMO). Belief will lead u from the truth, facts will lead u to the truth.

LDS dont drink coffee(belief)Has nothing to do with anything as far as ur relationship with god(fact)

Momonism will always b with u, u caint forget it, to much a part of ur life.

>>What is moral without religion to identify it for me?

I diverged from the Catholic church in which I was raised over its treatment of women. To me, that was a moral issue in which I differed from the church. Nowadays one could add its failure to adequately protect children and youth.

If you think about it, you already have the basics of morality down pat. Be decent to others. Be fair to them. Don't lie, cheat, steal, con, or steal their spouse away from them. Treat them with the same degree of respect and fairness that you would expect from others.

Beyond the basics, morality can be highly individual. Many people think about the treatment of animals, for instance. This can range from treating pets humanely, to buying only free-range eggs, or by becoming a vegetarian or vegan. Many people extend their care and respect to the treatment of nature and of the planet. This also can be expressed in a variety of ways from not littering/picking up outside garbage to advocating for laws and programs that protect the environment.

There are many ways to learn and think about moral behavior outside of a church. Much can be learned from parents or others that are influential to you. Clubs and organizations can promote moral and ethical behavior. You can listen to others and think about their views.

You learned in your time with Mormonism that not all of the church's beliefs and practices meet your own moral and ethical standards. Have confidence in your ability to determine moral and ethical standards for yourself.

The Mormon church is predicated on keeping you immature needing to be told by them what to do. They rely on making you feel guilty for even questioning as a control tactic.


Rather than Ignorance is Bliss, how about these?


A new broom sweeps clean but an old broom knows the corners. I like that better.

Common sense is genius dressed in its working clothes. Good as well.

All adults should be able to be good, kind, reciprocal people on their own with out someone constantly telling them how. It's not rocket science.

Just get the Mormons out of your head. They never belonged there.

Mormonism - Christian Narcissism and Borderline Personality Order of God's Priesthood.

I hope you can grow out of it. It takes a long time. Somedays are better than others. Raised by negligent narcissists I tended toward their opposite - the borderline listening to Madonna.

Being cared for and touched are huge for me.

Mormonism requires a healthy personality to be lobotomized into one of a child. Their maturity index is really low for their high-minded morals and their revivalist sermons in their Book of Mormon.

Wise Mormons often is oxymoronic. It is scary to look out from under their golden calf-arthic Moron-I and see the light from the world that is much more mature and wise than "follow the prophet, he knows the way."

Good luck. You have the advantage of not having a Mormon spouse or children. I envy that. I love my family but hate the rock they are buried under pretending they are golden books of Mormon goodness.