What is TSCC’s endgame when it comes to LGBTQ issues? The recent flip-flops with the BYU Honor Code makes me wonder.

They try (at times) to soften their stance when it comes to discrimination against people who don’t fit their mold, but they always circle back to:

Homosexuality is a choice (and a sin), and gender is binary, divine, and eternal.

Public attitudes have been rapidly evolving in recent decades, and it would be unrealistic for LDS leaders to expect a return to 1950s thinking. They must realize that if they keep digging in their heels, there are going to keep shrinking. But...if they become (legitimately) more accepting of LGBTQ people, they’ll probably drive away many of the older, big tithing bucks members.

Maybe most of the top 15 believe that they’ll be dead before they’ll have to make any hard choices.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/06/2020 12:34PM by CrispingPin.

Blind power tripping always remains blind.
From the days of the spanish inquisition onward until now

CrispingPin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Homosexuality is a choice (and a sin), and gender
> is binary, divine, and eternal.

> Maybe most of the top 15 believe that they’ll be
> dead before they’ll have to make any hard
> choices.

It has probably been a long time for many of them in making hard choices sexually.

I think they are in a bit of a bind, because they made a
big mistake that they can't own up to without further exposing their big game. The bind comes into play because they spent years claiming to be the watchman on the tower warning how horrible things would be if we came to embrace homosexual relationships. They thought it would be the end of family, civilization etc.

Of course, when you actually experience an inclusive church community for LGBT persons the GAs whole idea seems absurd. In our Episcopal Church a lesbian couple got married there either a week before or a week after my wife and I. Their child was baptized on the same day as ours. The world did not explode! Civilization did not collapse! Our heterosexual relationship was not compromised!

And of course for the broader society that didn't exactly play out either as same sex marriage was legalized in the U.S. and a variety of other countries.

But they are the prophets, seerers and revelators!

Now they've cried wolf and are probably worried that nobody will trust their watch-keeping abilities. Of course, there's no reason why anybody should.

Last November, BYU made the news because several scientific organizations would no longer list BYU job postings because the BYU honor code was discriminatory towards LGBT people, and therefore incompatible with those organization's standards. So poof! That paragraph is gone from the honor code. I guess they thought no one at BYU would notice that it was gone, or that they could go on enforcing it even if it wasn't in writing, and look better to the greater academic community while still maintaining their status quo (aka having your cake and eating it, too). In the internet age, no little edits like this are ever missed, and plenty of LGBT folks and their allies are very very tuned in to any changes like this. So yeah, they completely failed at what they tried to do. They aren't going to look any more reasonable to the academic community, the BYU and church stalwarts are upset about the flip-flop, and LGBT people are heartbroken yet again. Well done.

They are hoping for enough time to pass and enough of the older ones to die off as they slowly adapt to align with current societal views.

That's how most religions seem to handle being wrong. Before you know it, they will be claiming they helped with civil rights for gays- and the sheep will believe it.

I'm sure they will follow the pattern they established in the Race and the Priesthood essay when they said "Church leaders today unequivocally condemn all racism, past and present, in any form."

Once again, TSCC will have to "unequivocally condemn" the words and actions of their own prophets.

Last November, BYU made the news because several scientific organizations refused to post BYU job postings because the LGBT policy in the BYU honor code was not compatible with their non discrimination stance. Now - poof! That passage in the honor code is gone. I guess they thought no one at BYU would notice the change and they could just continue with the same policy, even if it wasn't in writing any longer. It's the internet age, of course changes like this are noticed. So, in trying to have their cake and eat it, too, they've managed to offend everyone possible. The scientific community isn't going to think they're any more progressive. The BYU and church stalwarts are angry at the waffling about the "values". The LGBT students are slapped down once again. Well done.

Expedite the fulfillment of their doomsday prophecies and get Jesus back here for the $100 Billion welcome home (again) party, stat!!!

have to address this issue and then they can prove you all wrong? Well, I doubt they even believe what they teaach about the next life; otherwise, all the oldies would be headed towards the door as quickly as possible. Why is it that the "prophets" all live so long?

I knew when this all came out 2 weeks ago that there was going to be a backlash. They are only pretending to care about gays. Like I've said before, they don't care about ANYONE. They are a bunch of old men who think they should have a say in your intimate choices.

We know that the people who have to deal day-to-day with the poop aka church's stupid policies have a very different outlook than the Q15. Sometimes, I think that some of the changes in the policies are made by the church bureaucrats who are tired of dealing with the problems.

Look at church history as your guide.

When and how did they cave on the polygamy issue?

When and how did they cave on the black issue?

Now you know your answer.

You honestly think a church with zero creativity and prophetic ear wiggling is going to have an endgame besides spending money like there is no tomorrow?

The Church of the Unknown Moniker cannot go back on any of the homosexual stuff even if they wanted to. They have proclamation painted themselves into a corner. If they deny any of it, they look like complete morons (or mormons) because they had 15 prophets, seers and revelators making such a racket and sending the Proclamation of the Family to all governments, leaders, nations, etc.

The end game is that they aren't going to give in. Likely there will continue to be a push by radicals, but not much will change. Not much has changed, aside from Oaks telling everyone to be nice, and how God loves everyone, and they are just so special,
The "lesser kingdom" doctrine (he said last april) will continue to be the belief.

How does it feel to be a pawn on their chessboard? Game of Thrones? No. Game of Stones. Throwing the first one seems to suit them. Fits like a Mr. Mac.

So why not fight back? Some of the affected persons at BYU need to start taking pictures around campus of some normal public affection taking place on campus, at a level that would be considered acceptable by church leaders. Then they should find an attorney in advance and carefully orchestrate similar public affection between some same sex couples, also on campus. When the issue reaches the honor code office as it surely will, they then spring the trap with a discrimination lawsuit and lots of public attention and media coverage, all planned in advance. Not only will they have photos of their own actions that were brought in to question, but will also have photos of other couples doing the same thing in public and who were never even questioned about it, or reported for it. They can claim that there is no honor code violation and be correct. Either BYU will have to become a socially cold place with official policies where no one can even hold hands or exchange a brief kiss, or those privileges/rights will be extended to everyone equally. In any event, the church will take a public beating in the process and the culture will have to change. Their 'have their cake and eat it too' thing won't work if they get enough bad press for enforcing honor code policies that don't exist in writing any more and that were officially removed as policy. Somehow, that just strikes me as indefensible, even for religious reasons. A legal arguement might be made as to why the policy was removed from the official honor code. Then the discussion in court can be about the requirements of real honor using legal definitions, not religious ones.

If people push hard enough, maybe the church will be forced to amend the plan of salvation to include a path to the celestial kingdom for the LGBT community... That change will probably happen sometime after hell freezes over or until Oakes dies, whichever happens last. Although I am straight, I like seeing the church hypocracy exposed and the church forced by real courts (of law) and social pressure, to do things they don't want to do.



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 03/10/2020 09:05AM by azsteve.