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Posted by: iceman9090 ( )
Date: June 19, 2020 11:00PM

I was looking at
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam%E2%80%93God_doctrine

There is this idea that the jewish god was just an ordinary man on another planet and he was made by another god. He eventually was worthy and became a god himself.

The video here discusses it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3BqLZ8UoZk
@ 7:00 Dr. Harold Goodman, BYU professor, mormon, LDS mission president is interviewed.
He says you have to be worthy, you have to be moral, a full tithe payer in order to be in the presence of god.
He also says the temple is important bc it will help the mormon to eventually become a god.
@ 8:00 The gentleman says that god is just a man, like you and me. He got to be god eventually. He is perfect, we can become like god.
The word "like" was inserted there by the lady asking the question. I would have preferred if she asked, "do you become a god?".

It is made by www.jeremiahfilms.com
The website still exists.

The about page says:
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Jeremiah Films, Producing Christian Films and Documentaries.

Celebrating over 30 years in the field of video communication, Jeremiah Films continues to lead the way as an effective creator of hard hitting, life changing motion pictures. Through its high standards of excellence, Jeremiah Films has impacted the world with its production and distribution of intelligent, innovative, and thought provoking films, videos, books, and music. The founder and president of Jeremiah Films is award winning motion picture producer Patrick Matrisciana, whose success has made him a much sought after radio and television talk show guest.

With its cutting edge investigations of the political world and social arena, Jeremiah Films has successfully filled the void created by the national media, whose inability to consistently present the truth to the American public has become all too common. These highly informative and controversial videos have received international prominence with reviews appearing in major publications around the world. They have been effectively used by individuals and grassroots organizations as tools to help weed out government corruption as well as promote patriotism, traditional values, and the biblical worldview of our founding fathers.
----------------------------------------------------------------



~~~~iceman9090

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Posted by: Brother Of Jerry ( )
Date: June 19, 2020 11:39PM

You heard correctly. Gordon Hinckley rather pointedly tossed that belief under the bus back in the mid to late 1990s iirc. It interfered with mainstreaming.

IMHO, there is exactly the same amount of evidence supporting:

1) one god per universe (Judaism, Christianity, Islam),

2) one god per planet (Mormonism),

3) one god per village/family (Hinduism)

4) no god per universe (Buddhism).

I see no objective reason why any of the first three options is any more believable than any other of those options.

I am partial to the Buddhist view, minus all the other fru-fru that gets dragged in.

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Posted by: Gordon B. Stinky ( )
Date: June 20, 2020 01:21AM

It doesn't matter whether any of the first three are true or not.
The issue is that the morg has historically taught #2, and now
they want to deny it. Change it up after the fact fact, as
always, because now it's an embarrassment. Now it doesn't suit
them. So they want to act like it was never the case. But it was.

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: June 20, 2020 10:46AM

Christians see the Trinity as being three aspects of one God. Therefore they see themselves as firmly in the monotheistic camp.

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Posted by: Lisa von und zu Liechtenstein ( )
Date: June 20, 2020 02:30PM

Yes, Christians see themselves as monotheistic, but Jews and Muslims disagree.

(For these groups, God has no son, no father, no uncle, no cousin. God is one and only. Period.)

Mormons try to portray themselves as monotheistic too... But it's all illusionism. Nothing but a desperate mainstreaming effort.

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: June 20, 2020 05:09PM

A better way to explain the Trinity is to equate it to the different roles that you play in your own life. You are YOU, but also (potentially) a wife, a mother, a sister, a daughter, a nurse, teacher, businesswoman, etc. The Trinity is one God in different roles.

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Posted by: Lisa von und zu Liechtenstein ( )
Date: June 20, 2020 05:23PM

For Christians, Jesus of Nazareth is God incarnate.

Jesus is considered the "son of God" (or God himself...) in human form, who lived for 33 years on Earth in flesh and bones. (And who is said to be "at the right hand of God" after resurrecting and ascending to heaven.)

For strict monotheists (such as Jews and Muslims), this is blasphemy. God has no son, no possible human form. God is one: indivisible, invisible, intangible.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: June 20, 2020 02:38AM

Agreed on Buddhism.

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Posted by: Dave the Atheist ( )
Date: June 20, 2020 02:36PM

If buddhism has no god then who enforces all those rules about reincarnation ?

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: June 20, 2020 03:38PM

It's awkward to talk about Buddhism as if it has "rules" or "doctrine" because the religion de-emphasizes such things. As some early documents explain, "if you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him"--meaning do not let anything, even the Buddha or Buddhism, obstruct your quest for spiritual enlightenment.

Reincarnation is simply the spiritual parallel of the birth and death of nature every year. Today's oak tree is tomorrow's fern and may one day become an insect or an animal. Material life is suffering, however, so the individual being intuitively wants to progress towards selflessness and peace. What that means in practice is that through meditation over lifetimes the individual grows past base passions and obsessions and becomes more compassionate and benevolent until ultimately she no longer needs material existence, reincarnation ceases, and the spirit achieves infinite peace.

But Buddhism does not require belief in any of that. The core is not dogma but praxis: meditation and acts of benevolence to other living beings. If you ask a Buddhist teacher which is more important, doctrine or actions, the answer will always be the same. I'm tempted to say that it's perfectly acceptable to be a Buddhist atheist but that misses the point that all Buddhists are atheists because there is no God in the religion.

It is entirely possible to be an individual atheistic Buddhist who never interacts with any organization, teacher, or fellow worshiper. In fact, that's what the more eremitic Buddhist monks have done for millennia.

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Posted by: iceman9090 ( )
Date: June 20, 2020 10:32AM

+Brother Of Jerry:
There are other options.
For example:

5) What's a god? Do alien beings from another universe count as gods if they figured out how to create our universe and maybe they created us?

Of course, like you said, there is no evidence for such things.

~~~~iceman9090

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: June 19, 2020 11:55PM

I think it is scientifically foolish to believe that just one ghawd is in charge of the running the entire universe! Our lenticular Universe is upwards of 97.4 billion light years in diameter, meaning there are at least 62 quadrillion sets of car keys that deity must keep track of!!!

Mormonism is almost infinitely polytheistic!! Which is why the secret hand shacks are needed, along with 31 secret names to dole out every month. Religion is complicated!!!

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: June 20, 2020 02:39AM

Anyone who can use "lenticular" in a sentence is already a god.

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: June 20, 2020 09:50AM

Yeah, so ghawd-like that you would do anything to be able to 'shack' my hand ...     :(

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: June 20, 2020 02:33PM

Shack your hand? I wouldn't even give you a fust bimp.

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: June 20, 2020 05:15PM

If I am desperately in need of something, I just put out a request to my (dear, departed) mom. I mean seriously, who else would care about my little trials and tribulations? I'm sure God has better things to do. Don't good leaders delegate?

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: June 20, 2020 05:24PM

A lot of us here care about your trials and tribulations, summer. You give so much that we can only wish you the best.

And yes, as the story of the centurion indicates, Jesus thought God does delegate!

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Posted by: [|] ( )
Date: June 20, 2020 12:01AM

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/1971/04/the-king-follett-sermon?lang=eng

"God an Exalted Man

I will go back to the beginning before the world was, to show what kind of a being God is. What sort of a being was God in the beginning? Open your ears and hear, all ye ends of the earth, for I am going to prove it to you by the Bible, and to tell you the designs of God in relation to the human race, and why He interferes with the affairs of man.

God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens! That is the great secret. If the veil were rent today, and the great God who holds this world in its orbit, and who upholds all worlds and all things by His power, was to make himself visible—I say, if you were to see him today, you would see him like a man in form—like yourselves in all the person, image, and very form as a man; for Adam was created in the very fashion, image and likeness of God, and received instruction from, and walked, talked and conversed with Him, as one man talks and communes with another.

In order to understand the subject of the dead, for consolation of those who mourn for the loss of their friends, it is necessary we should understand the character and being of God and how He came to be so; for I am going to tell you how God came to be God. We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea, and take away the veil, so that you may see.

These ideas are incomprehensible to some, but they are simple. It is the first principle of the gospel to know for a certainty the character of God, and to know that we may converse with Him as one man converses with another, and that He was once a man like us; yea, that God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ Himself did; and I will show it from the Bible."

"Everlasting Burnings

These are the first principles of consolation. How consoling to the mourners when they are called to part with a husband, wife, father, mother, child, or dear relative, to know that, although the earthly tabernacle is laid down and dissolved, they shall rise again to dwell in everlasting burnings in immortal glory, not to sorrow, suffer, or die any more, but they shall be heirs of God and joint heirs with Jesus Christ. What is it? To inherit the same power, the same glory and the same exaltation, until you arrive at the station of a god, and ascend the throne of eternal power, the same as those who have gone before. What did Jesus do? Why, I do the things I saw my Father do when worlds came rolling into existence. My Father worked out His kingdom with fear and trembling, and I must do the same; and when I get my kingdom, I shall present it to My Father, so that He may obtain kingdom upon kingdom, and it will exalt Him in glory. He will then take a higher exaltation, and I will take His place, and thereby become exalted myself. So that Jesus treads in the tracks of His Father, and inherits what God did before; and God is thus glorified and exalted in the salvation and exaltation of all His children. It is plain beyond disputation, and you thus learn some of the first principles of the gospel, about which so much hath been said."


"A Council of the Gods

In the beginning, the head of the Gods called a council of the Gods; and they came together and concocted [prepared] a plan to create the world and people it. When we begin to learn this way, we begin to learn the only true God, and what kind of a being we have got to worship. Having a knowledge of God, we begin to know how to approach Him, and how to ask so as to receive an answer."


So yes, mormonism is polytheistic. Mormonism teaches that members who reach the highest level of the Celestial Kingdom will become Gods. Elohim (mormon God) was once a man who went through the same process in order to become God. Presumably God's God did the same thing, and so on and so on.

Mormon doctrine is that we all initially existed as "intelligences" which were and are eternal. God then creates spiritual bodies for these intelligences; then he creates a world and sends the spirits down to get bodies. If they do all of the right things, then after judgment day, they get to become gods themselves and repeat the process.That is how Elohim became a god. One must go through this whole process to progress to godhood.

This all sounds good until you consider the question of how did the first god become god? At some point, one of these eternal intelligences had to figure out a way to become god without going through all of the intermediate steps. How did that happen? And why couldn't the rest of us intelligences do the same thing?

Of course Brigham Young taught the now heretical idea that Adam was god. You don't have to dig very deep into mormonism to find very wacky, contradictory, and bizarre things.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: June 20, 2020 01:57AM

King Follett and polygamy are the two things that definitively separate Mormonism from Christianity. Give those up, as the church ostensibly has, and the religion is nothing but Protestantism with some old men telling you how many earrings you may wear.

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Posted by: iceman9090 ( )
Date: June 20, 2020 02:35PM

+[|]:
"This all sounds good until you consider the question of how did the first god become god? At some point, one of these eternal intelligences had to figure out a way to become god without going through all of the intermediate steps. How did that happen? And why couldn't the rest of us intelligences do the same thing?"

==Interesting stuff.
So, mormons have many gods. One god creates people on a planet and some of the people become gods and get their own planet.

Do all mormons believe this? Are modern mormons thought this? If not, what will happen if I tell them about this?

Mormons believe that there is an initial god or what?

~~~~iceman9090

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Posted by: slskipper ( )
Date: June 20, 2020 12:39AM

The religion is not polytheistic like the old pagan religions were. yes, there are lots of Gods, but per LDS theology each God operates in his own separate "sphere"- dimension, universe, choose your own terminology.

I have never understood how this teaching is supposed to be so damning.

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Posted by: Beth ( )
Date: June 20, 2020 02:13AM

Here's what confuses me - how do you get to stay together as a family forever if everyone, well, each man, is getting his own planet? How do people visit their parents and siblings? Maybe wormholes.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/20/2020 07:24PM by Beth.

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Posted by: Gordon B. Stinky ( )
Date: June 20, 2020 04:31AM

I’ve always wondered the same. But I don’t worry, because it will
all be worked out in the afterlife! ;)

Maybe the exalted men will reorganize people matter and split off
doppelgängers. Daddy can have his little girl, and so can the
worthy male who marries her.

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Posted by: Dave the Atheist ( )
Date: June 20, 2020 01:01AM

Christianity is polytheistic. Devils, demons, angels, etc. are just lesser gods.

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Posted by: Beth ( )
Date: June 20, 2020 02:16AM

Not really. I think the closest thing to lesser gods is using saints as intercessors for those sects that do so. No one prays to angels or devils.

Oh! I was standing next to the satanists at a protest. I liked them.

ETA: Pre-COVID protest.

You know, I think 2020 is going to be the third era. BC (BCE), AD (CE), and, what should it be called? Not common cold.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/20/2020 07:24PM by Beth.

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Posted by: Summer Solstice ( )
Date: June 20, 2020 04:32AM

Dave the Atheist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Christianity is polytheistic. Devils, demons,
> angels, etc. are just lesser gods.

Not even close Dave. These are supernatural entities, but not "lesser gods".

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Posted by: Brother Of Jerry ( )
Date: June 20, 2020 04:39AM

::snicker::

Describing with great confidence the characteristics of imaginary beings. Rather like arguing "my unicorn is better than yours. Nyah Nyah,"

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Posted by: Dave the Atheist ( )
Date: June 20, 2020 02:37PM

Thanx for the laugh.

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Posted by: Dave the Atheist ( )
Date: June 20, 2020 05:16PM

Maybe you would like to tell us just exactly what a god is.

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Posted by: iceman9090 ( )
Date: June 20, 2020 02:30PM

+Dave the Atheist:
"Christianity is polytheistic. Devils, demons, angels, etc. are just lesser gods."

==In judaism, it is suppose to be monotheistic, more or less. They are actually henotheists. They recognize that the egyptian gods exist (according to the Bible).
Anyway, the jews are focused on the jewish god, Yahway. They don't respect other gods.
Angels are just bird people. They have wings so that they can fly down to Earth or fly up to heaven. The Earth is suppose to be flat.

Modern day jews, christians, muslims want to be monotheists.
As for satan, there are documentaries as to how he evolved into the modern Satan. All religions evolve.
Jews don't have a Satan but christians and muslims and mormon do.

~~~~iceman9090

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Posted by: snagglepuss ( )
Date: June 20, 2020 01:09AM

Janeen Jacobs Brady's vinyl Lp, THE GIFT, pointedly said "gods" in a song about Heaven, c. 1981-82. Granted it's a Mormon pop culture play, however.

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Posted by: Summer Solstice ( )
Date: June 20, 2020 04:30AM


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Posted by: Gordon B. Stinky ( )
Date: June 20, 2020 04:34AM

Henotheists don’t deny the existence of other gods. morgbots will lie and deny it.

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Posted by: Lisa von und zu Liechtenstein ( )
Date: June 20, 2020 02:40PM

Exactly...

Mormons are henotheists who, when cameras are on, pretend to be monotheists. (Hinckley on TV, for example.)

A few minutes later, however, they hie to a McTemple and perform eternal "sealings" in which they are promised to become gods and goddesses - if only they pay, pray and obey.

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Posted by: thedesertrat1 ( )
Date: June 20, 2020 02:17PM

I harp on this because I find it interesting and somewhat believable.
Many of you disagree with me and that is OK
I now refer you to my current standby on this issue "The Lost Book Of Enki"
The sixth table covers a possibility of a possible alternative to the creation of homo sapien.
The storyline could continue down through history until it is modified into the Hebrew Bible

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Posted by: MormonMartinLuther ( )
Date: June 20, 2020 04:44PM

Mormonism is as polytheistic as they come.
Hence Satan tempts Eve to be as the "gods" by having a Whole Foods apple.

Unfortunately they got carried away and thought their brand should be polyandro-theistic which violated certain laws which made them persecutheistic as well.

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Posted by: Heartless ( )
Date: June 20, 2020 05:14PM

Here is the proof.

D&C 132:19,20 "ye shall come forth in the first resurrection...and shall inherit thrones, kingdoms, principalities and powers, dominions, all heights and depths...
And they shall pass by the angels and the gods, which are set there, to their exaltation and glory in all things...which glory shall be a fullness and continuation of the seeds forever and ever.

Then shall they be gods, because they have no end....then shall they be gods because they have all power"

Verse 19 states we rise above gods. Verse 20 states twice we would be gods.

So what do gods do all day? Moses 1:33 "worlds workout number have I created" and verse 35 "there are many worlds that have passed away. There are many that now stand and are innumerable unto man" Verse 38 "as one earth shall pass away and the heavens thereof even so shall another come"

Anyone we know a god already?

D&C 132:37 "Abraham..Isaac also and Jacob...have entered into their exaltation...and sit upon thrones, and are not angels but are gods."

So for all their hemming and hawing, their lies, excuses and denials, scripture over 100 years old still claims members can be gods and have worlds without end.

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Posted by: MormonMartinLuther ( )
Date: June 20, 2020 05:18PM

Heartless bringing the Scriptorian 411

Well done. Very concise. Yep it's in there!

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Posted by: MormonMartinLuther ( )
Date: June 20, 2020 05:33PM

So Heartless has shown clearly how the Q15 are telling lies
I guess mormon leaders forgot that the bible would rat them out.

A faithful witness will not lie but a false witness will utter lies. Proverbs 14:5

Not to mention breaking the ninth commandment. Even by Jewish custom which made a distinction between lying in general and perjury, these men have perjured themselves numerous times in public.

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