On John Dehlin's Mormon Stories website, he has a comprehensive list of self inflicted wounds of LDS Inc.

https://www.mormonstories.org/podcast/a-comprehensive-list-of-lds-church-self-inflicted-wounds/?unapproved=581592&moderation-hash=6fa60289d04d1fc840c22e4269025717#comment-581592

After reading through the list, I just couldn't help but think how the hell in the information age that this obvious fraud can continue? This is just insane to the core of our intelligence. We fought the Nazis in WW2, we marched for civil rights, currently the BLM movement, how come this fraud still exists?

Sadly I'd say 80% of the list was known or knowable with a little research up until the late 70s before correlation hid and tried to erase it.

The common knowledge did little to deter mormonism.

Two full pages clearly showing the book of Abraham problems was published in newspapers across Utah with no real effect on the members.

Mormon ascension to godhood was not invented by Lorenzo Snow it was taught by Joseph Smith. Hinckley denied it and denied being a prophet as well. But no one really noticed.

The book of mormon can be proved false in the first chapter of Nephi. No mormon really cares.

True there are many leaving. But many just bury their heads in the sand. I worked with a gentleman that refused to study or read about history. He didn't want his testimony weakened.

I can think of no better example of leading a horse to water but not being able to make him drink than mormonism.

Just living life in modern times would be enough to teach you that there are con artists everywhere. It's as if these people have never received a phone call telling them that some stranger has magically determined that their Windows computer has a virus.

I guess they think religion is off limits for potential cons.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/04/2020 08:26AM by summer.

ontheDownLow Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> On John Dehlin's Mormon Stories website, he has a
> comprehensive list of self inflicted wounds of LDS
> Inc.
>
> https://www.mormonstories.org/podcast/a-comprehens
> ive-list-of-lds-church-self-inflicted-wounds/?unap
> proved=581592&moderation-hash=6fa60289d04d1fc840c2
> 2e4269025717#comment-581592
>
> After reading through the list, I just couldn't
> help but think how the hell in the information age
> that this obvious fraud can continue? This is
> just insane to the core of our intelligence. We
> fought the Nazis in WW2, we marched for civil
> rights, currently the BLM movement, how come this
> fraud still exists?

This grab bag interpretation of history is exactly the same problem as the LDS. It's revisionism and selective use of history. For every LDS soldier in the US army there is a Helmuth Hubener...

The reason the US fought the Nazis was not because of the Holocaust, which had been going on for years already, but because Japan attacked it, and Japan were allies of Germany. Japan had been committing atrocities in China and Korea for years before then. The USA never stepped in to protect the Poles from Hitler and Stalin's joint invasion in 1939.

So I guess the US involvement in WW2 was more to do with alliances than the rights of people.

As for civil rights those were only ever been supported by sections of the population, it's not a "we". Most of us weren't around in MLK's time, let alone WW2. I'm not going to even discuss BLM because it's been done enough here.

I'm afraid you've fallen for the Whig Interpretation of history, i.e. you think history is leading us to a better and better world. This is maybe understandable with Mormonism which has improved a lot with issues on race, gender and sexuality, but if you look out at what's happening in America right now, you can see increasing surveillance and decreasing freedom of expression.

Mosdefanon, I appreciate the history explanation. I am very familiar with ww2, but that wasn't the approach I was taking. The inference is that humans have come a long way with intelligence and technology, why are there so many still that believe the world is flat and that you will sail to the edge and fall off (so to speak)?!

It's just hard to believe ppl can be so gullible. My family for one. And I never understood the concept of ignoring church doctrine or history to preserve one's faith. Nor did I agree with BY saying that phrase "lest you be visited by an angel" or however it goes. Just a stupid way to carry on in life.

Once again proving that they don't teach logic and history to school children in Canada.


---------------------------
> The reason the US fought the Nazis was not because
> of the Holocaust, which had been going on for
> years already, but because Japan attacked it

False. If you had an elementary comprehension of history you would know that FDR wanted to get into the war, more against the Nazis than the Japanese, for several years but was precluded from doing so by American pacificism. The attack on Pearl Harbor shifted the popular attitude and enabled FDR to attack whomever he wanted.

Your claim that the US attacked Germany because of its alliance with Berlin is fallcious. Berlin and Tokyo were by 1941 working on entirely different lines with no coordination and no trust between them. Hitler had begged Japan to attack the USSR--the northern strategy favored by the army--but Tokyo opted to go south, the naval strategy, without conveying that intention to Berlin. Pearl was the key to the southern strategy and represented the complete rupture of the bilateral alliance.

Germany was attacked because it finally could be attacked. That second front weakened the US against Japan, not strengthened it. If you were a reader, I'd recommend a fellow Canadian's book on the topic--Conrad Black's biography of FDR--but that right-wing thinker and fan of Donald Trump is probably too far to the "left" for you.


-----------------
> So I guess the US involvement in WW2 was more to
> do with alliances than the rights of people.

As if alliances have nothing to do with the rights of people. . .

As if the balance of power isn't a necessary precondition to the protection of people's rights.


------------------
> As for civil rights those were only ever been
> supported by sections of the population, it's not
> a "we". Most of us weren't around in MLK's time,
> let alone WW2. I'm not going to even discuss BLM
> because it's been done enough here.

How are those Native American tribes doing in Canada? Have "you"--a common appellation for groups of people in a single country, much like "we"--returned Quebec and Montreal to the tribes that owned the land or is your derision only applicable to other countries?


-----------------
> I'm afraid you've fallen for the Whig
> Interpretation of history, i.e. you think history
> is leading us to a better and better world.

The Whig interpretation of history? That's right, the debate over the direction of history is between Whigs and Tories and not more general. Hegel didn't discuss it, nor Marx, nor Bertrand Russell, nor Isaiah Berlin, nor any non-Western thinkers. Your description of this question merely reveals your parochialism.


--------------------
> if you look out at what's happening
> in America right now, you can see increasing
> surveillance and decreasing freedom of expression.

Things better there in that northern outpost of the US economy and security system? You don't have the internet and information technology up there, Winston?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/04/2020 05:31PM by Lot's Wife.

On behalf of Canada, El-Dub, ouch!

I agree on the points about stolen lands, paternalism & rights. Indisputable.

Re education: One D student does not a country reflect.

I know. I made a sweeping generalization that was fallacious, and for that apologize.

:)

ontheDownLow Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ...how the hell in the information age
> that this obvious fraud can continue?

Well, first off, you need to WANT information. Mormons only want their faith reinforced. Meanwhile, almost 0% of the rest of the world is curious about Mormonism. And given the declining convert rates (or rates that don't keep pace with population growth) it seems like those who ARE curious have googled "Mormons" and decided they want none of it.

This is why Fox News and CNN exist and presumably why people panic buy toilet paper and why people stay mormon.

People are so scared of of the sh#t hitting the fan they just stay in the crapper their whole entire life.