Moroni 10: 5 says “by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things.” So, the “power of the Holy Ghost,” the “burning in the bosom” is the way to KNOW TRUTH. Not just truth about the BoM, but “the truth of all things.”

The power of the Holy Ghost is feelings (AKA emotions), not facts. Using emotion to determine facts is not only extremely unreliable, it can be dangerous. When I’m on an airplane, I want the pilots to be following the instruments, guidance computers, and radar, not their emotions. (Yes, I know there are a couple of once-in-a-blue-moon instances when a pilot trusted his/her gut and it turned out well, but 99.9999% of the time, it’s better to follow instruments). If Galileo and others had accepted feelings over observable facts, we would probably still be in the dark ages.

I’m not discounting the absolute need for some things to be based on feelings and emotions. Almost all great art, music, and literature is largely motivated by feelings. The great movements for justice, independence, and equality have been driven by emotion. Feelings are wonderful, they’re just not a way of determining factual truth.

I’d respect Mormons a lot more if they used the word “believe” instead of “know,” but there is strong peer pressure to say they “know” that Joseph Smith was a prophet, or they “know” the Book of Mormon is true. When was the last time any of you heard a Mormon say “I b

When they claim their "know" is supposed to have some impact on me, I like to let them know that their "know" stops at the tip of their nose and doesn't make the leap to me. It's only for them, not anyone else.

I usually get the deer in the headlights look because they just never really thought about it like that before.

Problem is, I actually know the correct usage of the word "know."

That's sort of a corollary of "The BoM is true!" trope--when TBM's and guys like Holland are so adamant that things are "true", there's an implication that there are reasons it *might* be false.
I wonder when testimonies started to include the heavy emphasis on the the word "true"? You never hear the pope or the archbishop of Canterbury go on about how the New Testament are true.

"I KNOW" is just a sales gimmick to invoke trust that relies on the gullibility of the recipient.

When my Molly GF was heavily recruiting me, that was the biggest road block for me, "I know" vs. "I believe".

If things had come to pass and we had gotten married, from the information I've gained thru RFM, we would have divorced within 5-10 years.

Thanks to all for helping me get passed my infatuation with a relationship that was decades old.

"Frantic orthodoxy is never rooted in faith but in doubt. It is when we are unsure that we are doubly sure. "
- Reinhold Neibuhr

> When was the last time any of you heard a Mormon say “I believe"

The Book or Mormon musical.

That was the weakest part for me. I don't know if it was an attempt to appeal to non-Mormons (for whom words have meanings) or if Parker, Lopez and Stone didn't know.

Redefinition of knowledge is a time-honored Mormon tradition. From an Official Proclamation to the World given on 4/6/1845, most of which the church doesn't talk about any longer since it's all very much old-time religion:

https://archive.bookofmormoncentral.org/content/proclamation-twelve-apostles-church-jesus-christ-latter-day-saints

"To all the Kings of the World;
To the President of the United States of America;
To the Governors of the several States;
And to the Rulers and People of all Nations."

[pages of millennarian BS, nonsense, bloviation, etc. snipped]

"[LDS] *know* some *facts* — and these will continue to be *known facts* when death and war in their most horrid forms are raging around them. They cannot shut their eyes upon these facts to please either governors, rulers, or the raging multitude."

"We would now make a solemn appeal to our rulers and other fellow-citizens, whether it is treason to *know*? or even to publish what we *know*? If it is, then strike the murderous blow, but listen to what we say."

[more BS snipped]

"He has revealed the origin and the Records of the aboriginal tribes of America, and their future destiny. — *And we know it.*"

"He has revealed the fulness of the gospel, with its gifts, blessings, and ordinances. — *And we know it.*"

[more snip]

"He has also said that, if [the Gentiles] do not repent, and come to the knowledge of the truth, and cease to fight against Zion, and also put away all murder, lying, pride, priestcraft, whoredom, and secret abomination, they shall soon perish from the earth, and be cast down to hell. — *And we know it.*"

[still more snip]

"He has said, that the Ten Tribes of Israel should also be revealed in the North country, together with their oracles and records, preparatory to their return, and to their union with Judah, no more to be separated. — *And we know it.*"

------

The records of the aboriginal tribes, period. The Gentiles to perish from the earth, soon. The 10 tribes, out of nowhere. No hedging their bets or equivocation. And they KNOW it.

Their "know" to me now is more like, "Oh, it's true. It just has to be. I know it is! Oh, I just know it!"

Sort of like, "Santa's going to get me a bicycle for Christmas. I just know he is!"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/14/2020 06:52PM by Greyfort.

The last time a TBM told me he knew something was true I asked him if he was there when it happened. He said no but he knew it was true. I countered he had faith it was true, he hoped it was true and he believed it was true but he couldn't know it was true.

It didn't matter in the end. It never does.