I listened to KSL on the way to work today because it's fund raiser week on NPR.....

Anyway, I'm worried that Doug Wright might get called in for a discussion with his bishop after today's show. He was actually pretty harsh in his condemnation of the store closings. He even had the Governor on the show to say a few words about it. He lambasted the legislature for their arrogance and condescending attitude towards the drinkers in the state.

I was a bit shocked. Now I'm wondering if I should return to church because this very well could be a "sign of the times". I'm kind of spooked.....will somebody hold me and tell things will be ok?

Stunted



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/06/2011 04:03PM by Stunted.

Along with I think 5 others, the Orem and Provo liquor stores are closing, even though the latter make money. I'll find a link for you.

Here ya' go:
http://www.heraldextra.com/news/local/article_9332a705-7c3e-5860-a1a4-d1efba794247.html



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/06/2011 12:27PM by itzpapalotl.

This whole FUBAR just highlights why the state of Utah should NOT be in the liquor business...

By "saving" money" by closing profitable liquor stores, the whole state will now lose revenue...

UNLESS...this FUBAR is a way for Utah to privatize liquor sales since if they REALLY want to save ALOT of money...the state could just privatize.

seems simple enough to us critical thinking heathens....

As a result a number of profitable liquor stores will be closed. The great minds in the legislature figure the drunken slobs that actually shop in the stores will be more than happy to drive a few miles more. Because of the states absolute monopoly they don't seem to care about customer service or accommodating restaurants etc.

There seems to be almost as much outcry against this as there was about the GRAMA thing. It'll be interesting to see what happens going forward. It wouldn't surprise me if the store closings don't all happen as planned.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/06/2011 12:28PM by Stunted.

This of course is very bad for the Mo hierarchy, since it is hard to imagine a more intrusive organization, right down to grilling you about orgasms, and mandating your underwear.

Libertarians and Mormonism are in fundamental conflict. Packer may have to add them as the 4th enemy of The Church™.

Will that mean private liquor stores? If not then people will have to drive further to buy liquor. What will happen is people will just stock up and buy even more. I thought the 'finish your drink before ordering' another to be stupid. You see your drink getting low and you know the waitress may not be by when you're empty, so what do you do when you see the waitress? You chug your drink. When I visit Utah I find the kids are usually bored, so what do they do? Drink. Southern Utahns will just drive to Mesquite. Get a grip Utah. Most of these soft bans to control liquor create more problems.

"What will happen is people will just stock up and buy even more."

Yes that's correct...from OUTSIDE the state like Idaho, Wyoming, Nevada, and Arizona.

So now the state loses MORE revenue...

What a bunch of dum-fuks...

As someone who moved to Utah from another state..it is absolutely laughable...AND embarassing the way this state deals with alcholo related issues.

gas and risk a $1,500 fine and criminal record to drive to Wyoming to purchase the same alcohol (albeit somewhat less expensively) they could purchase (note, I'm not talking about kegs or something else unavailable in Utah) by driving a mile or two farther in their own community? That's not rational.

Bootlegger.

Not only has he broken from the party line of "all alcohol = BAD" he was actually mocking the legislature for being too Mormon in their attitudes.

I know Salt Lake County has been on the verge of losing it's Mormon Majority population wise, could we be witnessing a fundamental attitude shift? If the store closings get reversed on top of HB477(or whatever the number was), maybe, just maybe next years legislature will have a different attitude.

Pile all of this on top of the Prop 8 backlash and it wouldn't surprise me if life in Utah starts to improve for the "non club members". Wouldn't it be cool if diversity was finally valued in this Wonder Bread state?

Stunted.

business. Trader Joe's and Safeway Stores should come into UT and be allowed to sell liquor. They do fine with liquor in CA and will make money for UT. Oh yeah, it will hurt the kiddies for life to see liquor in the stores. Well, grow up folks.

I really don't know anything about Doug Wright, other than he works for KSL/Deseret News and is Mormon. But it seems he isn't as brainwashed as most. I read an article by him in the Deseret News last week about the MPAA movie ratings system. He basically said that it's silly to reject all R-rated movies based solely on the ratings system. There were a lot of unhappy comments on that article basically saying that he needs to shape up and follow the prophet.

Nobody really bought that story about closing stores due to budget constraints, since the stores were a huge profit center for the state.

"Closed for God" was the caption of one cartoon.

There are LDS Theocracy reasons for closing the stores, plus there are probably some legislators too dull of brain to figure out that cost savings from closing a few stores will not come anywhere near making up for the losses in earnings.

Now, journalist Paul Rolly has come up with another explanation. Conservative Republicans hate public education in Utah and have been looking for ways to do away with it or cripple it for some time.

"Utah Lt. Gov. Greg Bell might have inadvertently shed some light on why the Utah Legislature has voted to cut funding, close stores and lay off employees of Utah’s monopoly liquor store business, which could cause a reduction in the $28 million in liquor revenues diverted each year to the state’s public school lunch program. He may also have revealed why Utah remains last among the states in per-pupil funding for schools.

...

"Bell told the group that ever since voters in 2007 repealed by referendum the legislatively passed voucher bill to use public money to aid in private school tuition costs, a group of lawmakers in his Republican Party has been “hardened against public education.” He said those lawmakers believe in a philosophy of “starving the beast [public education].”...

Source: http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/home/51504403-76/public-utah-liquor-dinha.html.csp

"Liquor commission attorney Earl Dorius was still clearly on edge from the intensity of the meeting when he addressed an applicant for a liquor license as “brother.”

"A red-faced Dorius acknowledged that his inadvertent use of the Mormon moniker for other church members in a public meeting was “a first” in his long career."

Excerpt from reader comments:

"Rolly is correct. I was in a meeting with a Utah Senator who said that if the voucher law was over-turned, they would do nothing for education. This article doesn't cause contention. It shines a light on the real agenda among many Republicans in the legislature. Education is changing in Utah. I agree with you on that one, and I predict that these changes will lead to a 3rd rate system. Even Puerto Rico, a 3rd world U.S. protectorate, is about to pass Utah in education expenditures. Most of the changes the legislature is making to public education is an effort to sabotage it so they can divert money to education interests that fill their pockets with money."

Do legislators run, own, or have interests in private or charter schools?

Isn't selling the same amount of liquor, or even slightly less liquor, at fewer locations with fewer employees MORE profitable rather than less profitable? Does anyone really think Utah drinkers are going to stop going to the liquor store, or illegally take their business to another state, just because they may have to go a bit farther for liquor? As far as the Utah County stores, it needs to be kept in mind that the PG and Springville stores are quite new, and that for years the County functioned, very profitably, with just the Orem and Provo stores. The introduction of the two new stores doesn't create a larger market. To me, the shuttering of the Orem and Provo stores makes economic sense. I'm not sure about the other locations, though.

They finally consulted an expert on the idea that the state could sell the same amount of liquor from fewer stores.

The answer was a qualified, "No."

In most cases, the planners did not take into account barriers, like freeways, traffic congestion, etc. to prospective buyers traveling to a different store. It's likely that some people will simply buy less liquor, less often.

The existing number of stores was already too few for the population, and the result was sometimes long lines, parking lot full, etc., and those inconveniences already drove some customers away. Some customers take their business to surrounding states. Some simply go home without the wine they wanted to go with their dinner.

In the case of closing the St. George store, they will probably lose a great deal of money since people will just drive down the freeway to Mesquite in Nevada.

I think Rolly's main point was that some Republican legislators actually voiced their intention to bleed funds and support away from public education.

Whether this liquor-store-closing plan achieves that objective or not, it is instructive to see some politicians actually saying that out loud. Animus toward public education is destructive. Reform, yes. Hatred, not useful.

It looks to me like the legislators will take a many-pronged approach to crippling public education. If one approach doesn't work, they'll try another.

And why would people buy less liquor, less often? If going to the store is a burden, why wouldn't they buy more liquor less often (in other words, buy the same amount of liquor at a different frequency)- stocking up between trips? After all, unopened liquor and wine are not perishable (and beer, for all intents and purposes, really isn't, either, especially if stored properly).

which can add up fast. They will buy a bottle or two, but three or four or five at a time takes some significant money for a lot of people.

The State of Utah is operating a monopoly concerning alcohol. It is a legal product, and part of the consternation from those who chose to drink is access to the product. The legislators have taken the attitude that its ok to slight the drinkers by restricting access, because drinking is, after all, a sin.

The audit recommendations made by the state auditors did not take into account demographics, natural boundaries between stores, etc, only the "as the crow flies" distance, nor did it take into account stores that are located close to state borders where alcohol is readily available at a lower price. Nor did they factor in the fixed rent/lease payments on vacant locations for several more years after they close. If you were selling a product from a location that made a substantial profit, would you close the location and continue to pay the lease payment, in hopes that your customers would drive farther away to buy your product? That makes no business sense.

It appears the public outcry has convinced some that they need to look at this again. You would think that the business-minded minions on the hill would want to make their product more readily available, create more revenue, increase profit margins, etc, in order put MORE money in the bank, not less. Government accountants have the nasty habit of only looking at the cost side of equations, and ignore the revenue side. I know this from experience.

When you factor in all of the issues with alcohol in Utah, it becomes evident that the only important issue is control. The tighter you control it, the less people will drink. Discourage consumption, because it is a sin.

If the state were truly serious about cutting costs, it would privatize the distribution of liquor and get rid of ALL the overhead associated with DABC, and just rake in the $277M a year without all of the costs. That would cut costs by about $65M a year, instead of the paltry $2.2M in cuts sent to DABC for 2011.

Again, I have to concentrate on Provo and Orem because I am familiar with that area and those stores. The locations of both stores are terrible, so I can't buy the "natural boundary" argument as to those stores. The Provo store, in particular, is in a horrible location - nowhere near the freeway and in a rundown area near the railroad tracks. Liquor drinkers in Utah County have no legal choice (and no real economically sound choice) but to buy from the state, and they will continue to do so whether there are two stores or four.

As to the lease, I agree that it doesn't make a lot of sense to continue to pay it, but then again, why can't the lease be assigned?

Making a product more readily available does not necessarily increase sales. In Utah County there are drinkers and non-drinkers, and the division is pretty well established. Whether people in that county drink has little to do with availability of alcohol. The majority of people in Utah County would not drink in New Orleans. On the other hand, making a product more readily available may well increase costs, thus cutting into rather than increasing profit margins.

I am in favor of privatization of liquor sales, but I don't see how it makes the state more money. The state would lose overhead, but it would also lose the profit. It'd be down to tax revenue at that point, which I have a hard time believing approaches the marked-up profit the state realizes on liquor sales.

Like I said, I am not professing that the elimination of stores makes sense across the board. But in Utah County, I am convinced that it makes economic sense. I never thought it made sense to have four stores there.

Nice comment from one of the readers of the Salt Lake Tribune article:

"I will be happy to contribute to the Utah education system for it's unbearable amount of children if I can do so through a conveniently located liquor store with consumer friendly hours. In fact as I imbibe very seldom now I am willing to drink more in the future under the above prescribed conditions just to help out!"

Dough Wright kind of works...there is Duff beer. I just don't think I'd put Doug Wright in the same category as Duff Man.

It's about 8:20 p.m. here in Maryland. And I am out of my favorite wine.

Solution: get in my car, drive a half mile to my neighborhood liquor store, and buy my wine at a reasonable price. I can do the same thing on Sunday too.

And I can read about the Utah liquor follies while I enjoy my wine.

How about attaching a "liquor store annex" to each temple? Consolidate the real estate. Could provide separate parking to avoid conflicts.
:)