https://www.sltrib.com/news/2020/08/25/anti-government-activist/

Boise, Idaho • Authorities on Tuesday arrested anti-government activist Ammon Bundy at the Idaho Statehouse after he refused to leave a meeting room where a few hours earlier angry protesters forced out lawmakers.

Bundt is an ass looking for publicity and notoriety now.

I'm sure his bishop is convening a church court as we speak.

He's in line to be a SP or MP, don't knock him off his pedestal!!

YAY!

"Bundy was rolled out of the building in an office chair."

HA!

He's on an anti-vaccine no-mask kick now? Jesus.

He is an attention whore. I think every time he starts crap up he needs to be arrested.

And convicted.

Sic the wombats on him!

Actually, they have a hard plate in their buts they can use to crush predators against the top of their burrows.... A girl can fantasize....

A martyr !

Bundy is an pro-socialism advocate, he grazes his cattle on public property without paying, that's SOCIALISM!!

No. A socialist would pay taxes and obey the laws.

Bundy is just a thief: a thug and a thief.

Not likely.

Bundy has been stealing from the public for years if not decades, refusing to pay the fees and taxes required of ordinary citizens, and taking actions that got a man killed. For that? No penalty at all.

I think on balance he's doing at least as well as the violent protestors that got away.

In SLC the first day of the George Floyd when 2 cars were burned, one police car and the car of the guy with the bow and arrows, so far 6 people have been charged with felonies for the car burnings.

The protests later at the police HQ in SLC where the protesters threw around a lot of red paint and broke a few windows (OK, pretty expensive windows, but still, nobody killed or injured) were initially charged with gang-enhanced felonies which made them eligible for life in prison. There were complaints that was pretty draconian for damage that can be cleaned up with a pressure washer. After a week or so, the charges were lowered, though I think 5 years is still a possibility.

So rioting is not without consequences. When everyone has a video camera in their pocket, chances are excellent somebody will record you, and somebody will recognize you.

Just like the white supremacist who murdered two people in Wisconsin ? Police even offered him bottled water.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/26/2020 06:12PM by Dave the Atheist.

Going to defend the cops w/r/t food and water - it's illegal for them to hold someone in custody and not offer them food and water. They were doing their job.

The murderer was not under arrest.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/26/2020 06:36PM by Dave the Atheist.

Okay. Broad generalizations follow.

The perception of being in police custody is as important as being in police custody.

If the suspect thinks they're in custody, and sometimes just having the police talk to you can give that impression, and the suspect confesses to a crime, you don't want to have issues about whether that confession is admissible.

If you're not in custody, you don't have to be Mirandized. You confess. They arrest you. Confession is admissible.

If you are in custody and you confess but you weren't Mirandized, out goes the confession. ETA: Usually - I think there's some BS caselaw that carves out BS exceptions, but I'm not sure.

When police are doing their jobs as they are supposed to do their jobs, they do not want to jeopardize a confession. Giving someone water so either they don't pass out or so they think the police are there to help, which they usually are, is fine by me no matter what the person has <strike>done</strike> been accused of doing and no matter who the person is.

I have a problem with police brutality. I also grew up afraid of the police because I'm from Philly, and the police will eff you up. The police will eff you up to a higher degree if you are a POC, and even police officers who are POCs will eff you up.

Police brutality = bad. Police themselves? Maybe not so bad, but I have a hard time trusting them. If they offered *me* water, I'd ask one of them to take the first sip.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 08/26/2020 06:54PM by Beth.

Are you talking about Kyle Rittenhouse?

ETA: https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/ellievhall/kenosha-suspect-kyle-rittenhouse-trump-rally

I just answered my own question. Sorry about that, DtA



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/26/2020 07:05PM by Beth.

Oh wow. He was walking around the armored vehicles *asking* for water. They weren't even thinking about him.

https://twitter.com/randomanne/status/1298505513764782080

Cop says something to the effect of they'll give him some but they have to keep some for themselves.

THEN - and you can hear this plain as day - the officer says, “We appreciate you guys being out here.”



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/26/2020 07:49PM by Beth.

It's a Mobius strip or snake eating its tail or whatever.

Unarmed person gets shot. People protest. Some protesters are violent. Most are not. Police rough up protesters. The roughing up of protestors begets more protesters because, hey - the police are MAKING THE PROTESTERS' POINT.

Here's an example of peaceful protesters getting roughed up in the daytime .

A large group of protesters was on the <strike>Blue Route outside</strike> Vine St. Expressway in Philadelphia. The police tell them to disperse. They try to disperse but the police have bottlenecked them. They have nowhere to go. It's still daylight, and the protesters are still peaceful.

The police tear gas the lot of them. Again. And again. People are kneeling with their hands up, and a cop pulls down their masks and tear gasses them in their faces. And the protesters are wedged together and cannot disperse or get away from the tear gas and cops are directing other protesters into that wedge where people are stuck and being teargassed.

There has got to be a better way.

https://www.nytimes.com/video/us/100000007174941/philadelphia-tear-gas-george-floyd-protests.html



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 08/26/2020 08:11PM by Beth.

Kyle is 17 years old. Where did he get the gun ?

He lives in the United States.

I'm not seeing "law and order" types calling for death penalty.

He lives in the United States, where, we are told, the Revolutionary War was fought against high taxes and the country is now in a civil war over the possibility that one day some socialist will propose balancing the budget.

The constitution will hang by a thread when taxes go up. Because that is what really matters: not individual rights, not the justice system, not racial equality, but personal wealth and the God-given right to use deficits to spend one's children's earnings.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/27/2020 03:42AM by Lot's Wife.

If they can give a 12 year old male the awesome power of the priesthood, letting him have a bullet dispenser is no big deal.

Good. Get that attention ho outta here.

Bundy & POTUS; are(n't) they linked together?

From the photos, it looks like Ammon has been eating very well of late, and would benefit from a fast or three.

"Attention whore" can be a lucrative profession if you can choose your street corners.

Feeling nasty myself, I think the best hope for Mr. Bundy is that he gets a bad case of COVID-19. That just might (maybe not) teach him a lesson.

Gads I'm old or watch too many police dramas. I thought it was going to be a historical piece on Ted Bundy.

For free speech.

Nothing is free anymore... and he knows it.

That's what he gets for standing up. I mean sitting down.

You mean rolling out.

And all rights, even fundamental rights, are not absolute. None are absolute.

Now he's banned from the Capital building for a year.

"Less than 24 hours after being arrested at the Statehouse, Ammon Bundy returned to the Capitol and was again removed by Idaho State Police on Wednesday.

Bundy was arrested around 5:30 p.m. Tuesday when police claim he refused to leave the Lincoln Auditorium, which is a large hearing room in the Capitol. He was arrested on accusations of trespassing and resisting and obstructing police.

By 11 a.m. Wednesday, Bundy was seen in the Senate gallery at the Statehouse and was removed by Idaho State Police, the agency that patrols the Capitol grounds."


https://www.eastidahonews.com/2020/08/ammon-bundy-removed-from-idaho-capitol-twice-in-less-than-24-hours-hes-banned-for-a-year/

Why aren't all of our "respect for authority" posters criticizing Bundy for not showing respect for authority?

If you're rolled out in a chair, you clearly weren't complying with lawful orders, and returning daily after being arrested for "trespassing and resisting and obstructing police" is obvious disrespect for the law.

Come on, "law and order" types. Ammon is unlawful and disorderly. Show us your principles here.

Put his rear end in jail and schedule his first court appearance after the legislature session has been concluded.

Maybe with the right connections, he could be housed in the same jail where Epstein was kept.

You are naive!

"Law and order" means protect my property, lower my taxes, and preserve my privilege: Constitution and the Bill of Rights be damned.

I haven't followed Bundy much. I gather his issue is about grazing rights on and access to federal lands. He believes he can do it. The Gub'mnt doesn't, or wants him to pay, or something. I remember reading something about his paying the state (Nevada?) or county or something instead. This has earned him the opprobrium of this board.

Bundy apparently believes he's not getting a fair shake, in the courts of law and of public opinion. I gather he wanted two "uncredentialed" journalists of his acquaintance in court to observe and report, but the "establishment" media reps said no, and they call the shots on this.

So Bundy protested. Foolishly and ineffectively, perhaps, but non-violently. He stayed seated and refused to move. No violence. No obscenities. No calling his followers to rape, pillage, and burn. No Dr. Dao-type of flailing about and striking others. He sat down (stayed seated, actually).

And the court officers (or deputies) responded in kind, wheeling the elder out to transport. Some people might have preferred that he were dragged out by his collar, armpits, and ankles, but that was unnecessary. They handcuffed him, and out he went. Downright civilized, actually.

He had a point to make, and he made it.

Did he make his case? We shall see. Not with the denizens of this board, obviously. But Thoreau, Gandhi, and Martin Luther King would have approved.

What the hell are you talking about?

> No Dr. Dao-type of flailing about and striking
> others.

There are certain people who for some reason trigger you. Often they are non-white people. Why does this man mean so much to you, caffiend?


------------------
> He sat down (stayed seated, actually).

Dr. Dao "stayed seated, actually." The police were the ones "flailing and striking." I don't know how you can so dramatically misrepresent a situation that we all saw, and can see, so easily.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/27/2020 11:11PM by Lot's Wife.

I have never referred to Dr. Dao's ethnicity in anyway. Check the record with Lot's Zipper

Dr. Dao simply serves as a useful and familiar comparison. Things get chaotic when one is subduing, controlling, and removing an actively resisting person.

Which Bundy was not. And that's the point here.

caffiend Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have never referred to Dr. Dao's ethnicity in
> anyway.

You don't need to refer to someone's ethnicity. Racism need not be explicit. The question is whether someone constantly chooses examples from certain categories. You do.


-----------------
> Dr. Dao simply serves as a useful and familiar
> comparison.

There are many examples you could cite yet you constantly choose him. Why did he impress you so deeply?


--------------
> Things get chaotic when one is
> subduing, controlling, and removing an actively
> resisting person.

Sometimes you sound just like azsteve. The fact, as determined by the authorities, is that Dao did nothing wrong. He had a contractual and moral right to stay in that seat and he was deprived of that right.

caffiend, you are neither an objective observer here nor an authoritative one. The authorities have spoken. Dao was right and you are wrong.


-------------
> Which Bundy was not. And that's the point here.

Bundy got a man killed. Dao got beaten. Yet you think Dao is the offender.

That is absurd.

Wait. He's talking about that poor doctor (Asian American), who was injured when he was dragged out of a commercial airline seat and down the aisle for refusing to give up his seat because he had to see patients the next day - that guy? What does that guy have to do with Ammon Bundy? Is this a joke?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/27/2020 11:30PM by Beth.

Nope. It's not a joke.

Caffiend constantly goes back to Dr. Dao, refers to him as a malfeasor and a criminal. The fact that the airport police department found for him and the state authorities affirmed that outcome apparently doesn't matter.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/27/2020 11:32PM by Lot's Wife.

I don't understand. Is he saying Dr. Dao was violent or even a protester or something?

He is saying that Dao had an obligation to obey the police despite his contractual and legal right to stay in that seat, that he was violent and injured others, and that the police behaved appropriately when they hurt him.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/27/2020 11:35PM by Lot's Wife.

This happened in 2017, and Dr. Dao remains caffiend's example. Like nothing has happened between 2017 and now.

Exactly.

Why does a single instance remain in caffiend's mind for three years? What it is about that man that is so memorable?

oh sorry - missed the ETA

So. Okay. Weird but good to know.

It's insane. There are people here who think the Bill of Rights is not binding on the authorities, that beating people (who are usually non-Caucasians) is appropriate, and that legal and judicial decisions to the contrary are incorrect and should be ignored.

as I recall, caffiend was quite perturbed that the Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone people occupied part of Seattle for awhile, but apparently isn't bothered whwn Bundy and his buddies occupy a federal wildlife refuge for 40 days.

I am sure caffiend would be upset to learn that a "welfare mom" in Chicago, or New York, or Detroit, or even Boston had stolen $1,000,000 from the government through welfare fraud, but seems to not have a problem with the Bundy family stealing $1,000,000+ from the government through not paying grazing fees.

caffiend constantly tells everyone here that you should always do whatever law enforcement tells you to, and not to confront or threaten, or resist them. But apparently he has no problem when federal LE shows up at the Bundy ranch to seize his cattle PURSUANT TO A FEDERAL COURT ORDER, that it is quite alright for Bundy and his militia buddies to confront them with semi-automatic rifles and prevent them from carrying out their duties.

It appears that caffiend's law and order stance doesn't apply to right wing, white people.

::awe::

That is precisely the problem. The same is true of azsteve. Consciously or not, they presume that the constitution gives them rights that do not obtain for certain categories of "other."

More concretely, the complete deference to established authority is deeply unnerving. That's the obligation of people who live in a tyranny, not a constitutional republic. A person in the United States does NOT have an obligation to follow an unlawful order from the police. Dr. Dao was right and he was vindicated. The officers who killed George Floyd WILL be held accountable; the cop who shot Jacob Blake in the back will be investigated and probably punished.

Cops are subject to the law and the constitution and citizens are protected thereby. If you don't like that, move to a country that either has no constitution or does not abide by the one it has.

Bundy keeps at it. After he was rolled out, he went back the next day and this time had to be *carried* out by three deputies. A little more resistant and less civilized.

Starting at 1:20 to about 1:25

https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/local/article245271450.html

He earned his opprobrium by taking over and occupying federal property in Oregon by force of arms, threatening federal agents, and getting one of his associates killed.

For your edification, that is, if you even care -

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupation_of_the_Malheur_National_Wildlife_Refuge

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_occupation_of_the_Malheur_National_Wildlife_Refuge

Since you admit that you don't know much about Bundy's antics, it might profit you to learn a bit more before opining on the subject.

Yah. https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/the-battle-over-bunkerville/

Some people hate others like them. Others hate people unlike them. Some hate both (occasionally including themselves)... UNTIL they are in THAT situation. Lots of good armchair critics everywhere these days.

You're right. I didn't see any video. Just the news and one picture of a non-violent American citizen being denied his freedom of speech, and freedom to assemble, and removed (arrested) from the room for that exercise or expression...

It could have been someone's 10 year old child, or wise elder state citizen, and it would have the same effect.

Only a real man, or woman, would return.

Good going Bundy!
Stand up- laugh