I am just here to provide information.

Something is Wrong with Donald Trump Supporters Part 2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XvvwVahcj0
Length = 15:32

@ 7:40 Bill Maher says “Let’s hear it for the mormons. The mormons who bailed on Trump big league. White evangelicals go for Trump over Hilary 75 to 14 but only 19% of Utah mormons have a favorable view of orange Hitler. Because apparently the mormons believe you shouldn’t vote for a lying infantile scumbag just because he is on your team.”

~~~~iceman9090

There are few things more likely to make me question my convictions than a chance convergence of views with Bill Maher.

FWIW...the mormons on my FB feed are supporting Biden..

Just saying..

If you read the rest of the thread, you'll see that I expect a lot of centrist Mormons to go with Biden. That proportion will probably be lower than the number of people who say they will do so, and it won't affect the outcome for Utah's electors, but in some other states the feelings of non-Kool-Aid Christians may make a difference.

Doesn't matter. Utah is redder than a baboon's butt. When the time comes, they will vote as they always do.

But it does reflect an interesting schism in Trump's base. Where Mormons with their quaint family values go, a significant minority of born-again Christians will follow. 3%? 5%? 10%? Some of those numbers could influence the outcome of the election.

You may be right. I'm not convinced though. In 2016 Utah had a mormon on the ballot that peeled off a good chunk of voters. That option is missing in 2020. Also, the personality cult is fully developed; not only have mormons largely bought into that, but many appear to be Q devotees too.

I'm not suggesting Trump will lose Utah. I am suggesting that in one or two closely divided states the loss of a small number of Christians who take values seriously might be enough to tip the balance.

My Utah Mormon friends voted for the independent candidate four years ago. They were not comfortable voting for Trump. I'm not sure what they are going to do this time around.

Mormons don't consider their family values to be any different than Trumps and will not struggle with the issue. When he holds up the Bible they buy it. When he grabs his wife's hand they buy it. What they really buy is that they think he has their interests at heart.

Any struggle they have about voting for him is pretend. Mormons are as shallow as most of the rest of the country who think they are really wonderful people because they use the blue garbage bin.

You are dead right. Every Utahn I know says how they either don't like Trump or think he's disgusting, BUT, the next thing out of their mouths is that they don't like Biden either and attempt to list damning information about him though they don't come up with much. Which is of course, their justification for voting for Trump which is what they really want to do and will do.

Joseph Smith himself could't win against Trump if Joe was a Dem.

Red as a Babboon's Butt. Yes. My own Mother is in such a quandry because in her mind voting Democratic is anti-Mormon more than we are.

https://www.sltrib.com/news/politics/2020/10/05/new-utah-poll-has-trump/

"President Donald Trump has a 10-point lead over Joe Biden in Utah with less than a month to go before the presidential election."

"Still, the Y2 Analytics poll showed that just under half the active Latter-day Saints said they’ll definitely vote for Trump, at 49%. And another 10% said they’d likely vote for the president, though 6% said they could change their mind and 4% said they would pick Trump if they “had to choose.”

Because he's tough on immigration. The Morg requires open (or at least openish) borders and loose immigration policy for their own interests. The RC church is along similar lines as far as that goes, but they've been internationalist since literally day one.

Immigration is a big issue, certainly, but values and personal behavior matter secondarily as well.

Just before the 2016 election the Q15 sent a letter to all stakes and wards urging people to vote in accordance with Mormon values. It was subtle but substantial. The church and a good chunk of its membership have always had a hard time with Trump.

And thus the electoral shocker. Some people are saying that applies to 2020, and more so. Where are the Biden motorcades and boat floatillas?. Trump easily packs a hanger with 10,000 people, plus thousands more outside. Bear in mind, one has to arrive early in the day if one hopes to get inside.

Of course, Biden draws his crowds too.

https://twitter.com/RealBobbyWalker/status/1313522272808906754?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1313522272808906754%7Ctwgr%5Eshare_3&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thegatewaypundit.com%2F2020%2F10%2Fcant-escape-joe-biden-drives-gettysburg-met-hundreds-trump-supporters-video%2F

Those Dems, always worrying about hoaxes like COVID-19. Why can't they learn to relax and hold big public spectacles like the the White House does?

What could go wrong. . . in the White House. . .

Lot's Wife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Those Dems, always worrying about hoaxes like
> COVID-19. Why can't they learn to relax and hold
> big public spectacles like the the White House
> does?
>
> What could go wrong. . . in the White House. . .

Yeah, why can't they run around and burn things down and kill people?

Lotsa Wives Wrote:
----------------------------------------------------
> .
>
> Yeah, why can't they run around and burn things
> down and kill people?

Like Ammon Bundy & Co?

Or the Proud Boys or that Trump-supporting kid who killed those people in Michigan.

Pot and kettle, these right-wingers. . . fine people on both sides. . .

https://kutv.com/news/local/blm-group-proud-boys-stand-together-at-salt-lake-city-press-conference

I think the Proud Boys have been smeared with the tar and feathers of racism before people learned what they actually stand for, which is the virtues of western civilization. Their membership is open to any man who upholds traditional western virtues; their leadership is multi-racial. I see their goals as the application and veneration of the wisdom that has come down through Jerusalem, Athens, Rome, Wittenberg, Utrecht, London, Plymouth, Boston, Philadelphia etc. All now under attack by cultural anarchists.

This, from their website, which google would not produce--it took a site-specific search:

"(Founder) McInnes has described the Proud Boys as a pro-Western fraternal organization for men who refuse to apologize for creating the modern world; aka Western Chauvinists.

Proud Boys‘ values center on the following tenets:

Minimal Government
Maximum Freedom
Anti-Political Correctness
Anti-Drug War
Closed Borders
Anti-Racial Guilt
Anti-Racism
Pro-Free Speech (1st Amendment)
Pro-Gun Rights (2nd Amendment)
Glorifying the Entrepreneur
Venerating the Housewife
Reinstating a Spirit of Western Chauvinism

Though these are our central tenets, all that is required to become a Proud Boy is that a man declare he is “a Western chauvinist who refuses to apologize for creating the modern world.” We do not discriminate based upon race or sexual orientation/preference. We are not an “ism”, “ist”, or “phobic” that fits the Left’s narrative. We truly believe that the West Is The Best and welcome those who believe in the same tenets as us. We have an international reach, with members spanning the globe."

Note they are explicitly anti-racist. Their positions seem to be an overlap of libertarian and conservative positions--which, 50 years ago, would have been called "liberal."

PS I am not a member. Just somebody who looks at the facts behind the Establishment Narrative.

> I think the Proud Boys have been smeared with the
> tar and feathers of racism before people learned
> what they actually stand for, which is the virtues
> of western civilization. Their membership is open
> to any man who upholds traditional western
> virtues; their leadership is multi-racial. I see
> their goals as the application and veneration of
> the wisdom that has come down through Jerusalem,
> Athens, Rome, Wittenberg, Utrecht, London,
> Plymouth, Boston, Philadelphia etc. All now under
> attack by cultural anarchists.

I actually had to look up to make sure I was not reading macaRomney. What percentage of Proud Boys do you think has a passing familiarity with "western virtues?" How many could find Athens, Wittenberg, or Plymouth on a map?

As for those who disagree with you and the Proud Boys being "cultural anarchists," why not just call us "Fascists" or "Nazis" and be done with it? The great thing about life in a free country is people get to argue with each other without being denounced as "cultural anarchists." Here, where you speak as someone more comfortable with a state ideology and purity tests than the frustrations of democracy, you sound not like macaRomney but like azsteve.


--------------------
> This, from their website, which google would not
> produce--it took a site-specific search:
>
> "(Founder) McInnes has described the Proud Boys as
> a pro-Western fraternal organization for men who
> refuse to apologize for creating the modern world;
> aka Western Chauvinists.

I'm dying to see if McInnes and his followers could pass a citizenship test.


-----------------
> Note they are explicitly anti-racist.

They say it, so it's true!


----------------------
> Their
> positions seem to be an overlap of libertarian and
> conservative positions--which, 50 years ago, would
> have been called "liberal."

What a silly thing to say. A number of those principles were in no way "liberal" in 1970. Liberals then were not in favor of gun rights, closed borders, and--giggle--"Veneration for housewives." It's tempting to suggest you meant 1870, but even then liberalism never supported the free availability of guns or closed borders.


-----------------
> PS I am not a member. Just somebody who looks at
> the facts behind the Establishment Narrative.

Nah, you don't get to do that again. You might have been oppressed till 2017, but since then your lot have controlled the White House, the Senate, and the Supreme Court and your State TV is the most watched channel on cable. You ARE the establishment; it is your narrative.

As attractive as it may seem emotionally, you and the Proud Boys don't get to be victims anymore.

Boat floatillas. That worked out well (LOL).

The choice is autocrat strongman replacing democracy or not. It's that simple. Yeah, what about fetuses or any other pet issues? Well, is that worth becoming a fascist-like regime?

Most people, including me, are not thrilled with everything about any of the candidates from either side, but watching the takeover and erosion of department after department is horrifying. Even science and education are on the path to being taken over. It is the death knell of democracy. Our type of democracy in the USA turns out to be more fragile than I realized.

I'm recognizing that control of women and racism may be more important to many than living in a democracy. This has been a sobering realization.

Mormons do value education and for some of them an alarm is going off. I'll bet the votes for 3rd party (votes thrown away) are higher than usual this year. They've observed Mitt flip flopping . It's hard to say if that will have any impact on the bulk of Utah voters.

dagny Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Boat floatillas. That worked out well (LOL).

I mentioned that only as an indicator of what's termed "the enthusiasm factor." Last week I noticed a Trump rally in one of my area's toniest, most progressive suburbs.

I'll bet the votes for 3rd
> party (votes thrown away) are higher than usual
> this year. They've observed Mitt flip flopping .

In 2016 they had the perfect throwaway vote with Even McMuffin, and Trump still carried Utah. Here's a short article on 3rd party Utah candidates:

https://www.kuer.org/news/2020-09-01/third-party-candidates-for-president-and-vp-make-their-case-to-utah-voters

Hillary Clinton was way ahead in the polls in 2016.... up to the very moment she lost the election. Don't believe anything you see from biased media sources. Everything the FBI and the media colluded to do against Trump is now being released and de-classified, much of it just today in fact. It ain't over til it's over, and the real numbers are the subject of a lot of lying.

But you know the truth, right?

My point is: how people poll and how they vote ain't the same thing. Here in the Northeast, I see few Biden signs, and precious few Trump signs. For what it's worth, on my tenants' lease addendum I specify "No Political Signage." Just an invitation for trouble.

Yes, your point about the polls is correct.

My reply was to your comment about the crowd sizes, which were not relevant to your main argument.

It's the "timid trump voter" argument.

They may not like Trump's personal morality but they like his judge picks like Barrett, a pro-lifer. Mormons may hate the GE's guts but they're not going to elect a radical pro-choice platform. They know Trump won't be around forever but his dozens of judge picks may stick around for a long time after he's gone. The same would be true on the opposite side if Harris/Biden got in.

Why do you describe it as a "radical pro-choice platform?"

It's been the law of the land for almost fifty years, and is supported by a fairly large majority of the people. It doesn't seem at all radical. It is just the status quo.

As for Judge Barret, if she gets confirmed, it would seem that for a lot of people, they've gotten all the benefit they are going to get from Trump, and there is no real need to actually vote for him anymore. "Be careful what you wish for" may apply.

Because there well might be another 1-2 supreme appointments in the next four years, not to mention many more lower court issues, maybe dealing with issues like church/state separation, religious freedom, tax exemptions, and so forth, that interest the church.

Also he just had his Lazarus moment, practically to the brink of death and coming back swinging, which may be taken as an omen in many religious-oriented minds that he's either been chosen or at least forgiven his prior sins. He's coming back like Gandalf after his fight with the Balrog.

https://babylonbee.com/news/donald-the-orange-returns-triumphantly-as-donald-the-white

(Babylon Bee has been proven to be 99.44% more reliable than PolitiSnopes.)

But Don v. Joe is merely of the moment, Red v. Blue is more permanent. (And it’s a shame that shameless Maher isn’t more of a past moment.)

I trust that voters from BOTH sides of the duopoly find it necessary to hold their noses while voting for either grab-them-by-the-pussy candidates. Lovely choices, America!

I missed the part where Biden stooped to Trump's level and claimed to grab-pussy. Do you have video or reference for that? Seems that you are just trying to blow out Biden's candle to make Trump's burn brighter. That is what Mormons are doing to justify the vote the really do want to cast.

IIRC, Biden also typically pays millions in Federal taxes each year, unlike our current president.

I think 300,000 or so in his last filing. So not "millions in taxes" although still 400 times Trump's annual contribution, in a good year, of $750.

So I wrote this but Human's name came up as the author. I don't get why this happened???? Technology hates me for some reason.

Tell Admin. They may be able to fix it. Also, they should know of such a tech glitch.

Bednar gave a talk about polarity. While it was aimed at members having one foot in the church and the other one out, he stated that you can't be in the middle anymore.

Yet, I think that's where the top leaders are (in the middle). I believe that they are not happy with Trump, but I don't think they are happy with Biden either.

Claiming to not be happy with Biden is the excuse Biden and the others need to vote for Trump---cuz they love him but know better than to admit that as they never admit to anything anymore.

" . . . is the excuse *Bednar* and the others need to vote for Trump . . ."

Anecdotal view: every last idiot in my estranged Mormon family is a zombie GOP voter. No exceptions.

Do you have any hard facts to support your premise?
iceman9090 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am just here to provide information.
>
> Something is Wrong with Donald Trump Supporters
> Part 2
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XvvwVahcj0
> Length = 15:32
>
> @ 7:40 Bill Maher says “Let’s hear it for the
> mormons. The mormons who bailed on Trump big
> league. White evangelicals go for Trump over
> Hilary 75 to 14 but only 19% of Utah mormons have
> a favorable view of orange Hitler. Because
> apparently the mormons believe you shouldn’t
> vote for a lying infantile scumbag just because he
> is on your team.”
>
> ~~~~iceman9090

That was just Maher being hyperbolic. Mormons realize he is a "lying infantile scumbag", but a good many of them still vote for him. I suppose that is a useful distinction, but the end result is the same as if they adored him.

In AZ in particular, Mr T is in trouble, and losing a few percentage points of Mormons could well be the final straw. They are a significant voting bloc there.

Most mormon's I know are voting for trump because they see him as a man of god. Biden is the hypocrite here. Just tonight Kamala said "he is a good catholic" a good catholic? He and Kamala support killing babies with tax payers funds. It's the first commandment that Catholics believe is to put an end to abortions. The big orange guy is the one who is protecting the innocent here. So he can say whatever he wants to offend the snowflakes but when election day comes, the issues at hand is going to be what he does not what he says.

> when election day comes, the issues at hand is
> going to be what he does not what he says.

Exactly. And that is his problem.

"...killing babies with taxpayer funds"

Have you even heard of the Hyde Amendment? Named after Henry Hyde, it's been around for a very long time. You should look it up.

I also think Mormons' support for Mr T has more to do with his racism. It is noteworthy that in GC earlier this week, little if anything was said about abortion, while rather a lot was said decrying racism.

Also what he doesn't do is on voters' minds. It's fine to give lip service re pet issues but how about saving those already living by implementing protective measures recommended by science and medical experts. That would demonstrate respect for life, for starters.

Well, here is the thing NG. There are those that are oh so concerned about a woman's right of choice but don't give two hoots in hell about the quality of life mother or child will have. It's the theory they are enamored of, not the reality. After all, are there no Orphanages? No Poor Houses?

And just for shits and giggles, let's do everything we can to shut down the largest source of ALL birth control for low income women. That is the ticket! And if we kill a bunch of people off, well, that is OK too. You know, stock market.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/08/2020 09:49AM by Susan I/S.

I know some staunch Republican mormons, outside the moridore, that will not be voting for him. BTW, they don't consider him a Republican but a whiney Democrat that saw the Republicans to be low hanging fruit.

Susan I/S Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I know some staunch Republican mormons, outside
> the moridore, that will not be voting for him.
> BTW, they don't consider him a Republican but a
> whiney Democrat that saw the Republicans to be low
> hanging fruit.

He was a registered Dem most of his life.

And donated.

What? You saying he's "up for grabs or something." An opportunist? Naw. No Way. Couldn't be. Never seen such integrity in my life, He has the best integrity. The best integrity. hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. Ha! ;)

Susan I/S
... "they don't consider him a Republican but a whiney Democrat that saw the Republicans to be low hanging fruit."

Totally, he claimed republicon because he knew it was that or nothing, and you know how he likes nothing.

I disagree!!
Anyway I thought that politics was verbotten here??????????????

thedesertrat1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Anyway I thought that politics was verbotten here??????????????

BWAAAHAAAAHAAAAHAAAAA!! Only right leaning politics are verbotten here silly. I think it is in the Board Rules.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/08/2020 05:33PM by caffiend.

Racist or homophobic/xenophobic politics, or partisan will get deleted. Left-leaning politics also gets deleted. I get deleted every now and then.

For some reason, it is only one group that whines about getting deleted.

Some threads start relevant enough to Mormonism even though the theme is fairly political, the admins leave it up. Sometimes that works OK, sometimes the thread devolves into partisan sniping. I suspect this thread is close to getting shut down.

Whether to leave a thread open or cut it off is a judgement call, and opinions often differ, even the opinion of a single admin. Whatever the decision on. thread, on later reflection a reasonable person can decide they over or under reacted to a thread. This is not an exact science.

I used to teach in a past life, and sometimes what mark to give a student in a particular exam question was pretty cut and dried, and sometimes it was a judgement call. I sometimes had to go back and regrade a number of responses when I saw that the students were legitimately interpreting the question differently that I had had in mind, but still, a legitimate alternate interpretation. Every now and then, I had to throw the question out altogether as a poorly written question.

So yeah, closing/deleting threads is a judgement call. I don't complain except to privately report a thread sometimes, because it is not my call, whatever my opinion about the content of a thread, and I know it is a difficult and variable decision.

I find it ironic that generally speaking, the ones who complain about being deleted are the same ones who throw around the word "snowflake" as an insult to others who complain.

Which reminds me: winter is coming.

> I find it ironic that generally speaking, the ones
> who complain about being deleted are the same ones
> who throw around the word "snowflake" as an insult
> to others who complain.

Astounding, isn't it? Their narrative is that they were oppressed for decades but then organized--consider it a transcontinental group therapy session--and took the reins of government. And yet they still insist they are victims.

What we have seen over the last decade is a great spasm of self-pity.


------------------
> Which reminds me: winter is coming.

We'll see for whom.

If Morg corporation HQ desires a Biden presidency (investments are SO important, doncha know?) then Mormons will be 'advised' to vote Biden/Harris, even if there are problems with their stance on certain issues such as abortion, etc.

But money talks, right?

The church couldn't endorse Biden. That would alienate a big chunk of the membership. The best course for the church is to maintain neutrality.

Mormon ghawd is the essence of tepid.

Would that you were hot or cold so I could spew you out of my mouth. But because you are lukewarm I will embrace you as the one true policy.

All things to all people, saith Paul.