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Posted by: Nightingale ( )
Date: October 09, 2020 03:46PM

On another thread thedesertrat1 wrote:

"I thought that politics was verbotten here??????????????"


Jaxon replied:

"BWAAAHAAAAHAAAAHAAAAA!! Only right leaning politics are verbotten here silly. I think it is in the Board Rules."


You've got Einstein's theories of Special Relativity and General Relativity explaining the forces of nature.

Then there's my own Theory of Relativity which states: All things are Relative.

It seems this principle is a difficult one for many religious and ex-religious folks to embrace - myself included in earlier days. Growing up in a rule-oriented household although without deep religious inculcation, it seemed natural to me that the faith I sought out (i.e. self-inflicted harm!) was a black/white rules-based one (JWs). My progression from there included strict EVs, with their different interpretations of scripture but same fundamentalist tendencies. Hop, skip, jump into Mormonism - same story. Top down, paternalistic, dogmatic, controlling, strict approach to faith. What really messed with my head for a while was same book (Bible), different takes. As a young seeker for the meaning of life I was handicapped by the rules-based experience I had had growing up and in the churches I gravitated to. I also tended to be very literal. An unhealthy combination I came to find out - rules and literalism did me no favours.

Fortunately, I learned to lighten up. Put me on the outs with the faith groups and people associated with them (aka former friends). But I'm happy to have landed in a sea of incoming info and still more queries than answers. It felt wild at first but I'm liking the waves. Beware of the rabbit trails promising ultimate enlightenment, I have come to find out. Questions and doubts are not negatives, contrary to what many religious leaders will try to make their followers believe.

I notice that many people, like me, leave a religious group yet linger in the mindset of a black/white/literal world. It's not surprising. It can take a lot of self-examination and ultimate insight to change one's perceptions and conclusions, as well as to overcome early intensive indoctrination if such occurred.

Not picking on the two posters mentioned above - just using that exchange for an example. It can be so difficult to see shades of grey. In my experience, it's a learned approach.

Specifically regarding the query from DR (at top) re an RfM rule (no politics), yes, it appears to be not as absolute as it was in the beginning. The conundrum for Admin, I believe, is that Mormonism itself (the major topic of this web site) is inherently political, in its founding principles, its leaders, its history and prophecies as well as prior and current prominent politicians who are Mormons. Romney and White Horse are examples of more recent political references here.

Too, many political issues and much political discourse also touches on Mormonism, faith beliefs and churches in general. In many ways religion and politics are intertwined and both, obviously, have major impacts on society.

That is why at times a "political" discussion is allowed here, despite the injunction against politics. I grant it is perhaps tough to discern why one topic is permitted and another is nuked. Obviously, if we are relating it to Mormonism that helps to stay more on topic. If we are keeping it civil that too can help the posts to stay relevant and gives them a better chance of remaining up on the board.

The biggest problem with politics is that they can be so divisive, causing acrimony among otherwise courteous posters. It can be tough to see the others' points of view when you feel strongly about something and think you're in the right. Bad feelings can sprout up, especially if you feel the moderation decisions are unfair to your side.

Particularly at this moment in US history it seems nearly impossible to avoid current affairs. Maybe that's why some of it leaks onto the board.

Which is where my own pet Theory of Relativity comes in. The main principle is that Everything is Relative. Even seemingly immovable rules. (Except for Rules of Nature, obviously). It's either that or else we're flooding Admin with so many instances of rule infractions that they just can't quite keep up? :p

My personal guide for staying within board rules is that if Sus I/S or CZ are posting on a thread, it's obviously good to go and I may chime in if I have anything useful to add.

But to be serious, I feel for those who think the rules are bent, especially for political views with which they do not identify. It's not so much about the political opinion, I think, as it is about how it is expressed (civilly or not), and whether it is a fair and reasonable comment (although that, by definition, is obviously highly subjective). Hopefully I'm correct in assuming that the more factual one's post is the more chance it has, even if political, of staying up. It's tough for those of us who have a more literal/black & white approach. But it's a good way to learn that apparently life just isn't quite like that.

So, my bottom line that explains life to me has become that everything is indeed relative. However, to confuse the issue, some rules are meant to be strictly observed. Such as no diving in the shallow end of the pool. No checking your texts while driving. No goofing off when stopped by a traffic cop. And like that.

Another bottom line is that if we can Rodney King it here together, we can get through this political period and come out on the other side relatively unscathed and still on friendly terms with one another. I hope. And I wish for everyone to feel heard. But in a fact-based way.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/09/2020 03:49PM by Nightingale.

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Posted by: Tevai ( )
Date: October 09, 2020 03:56PM

Superlatively well done post, Nightingale!

Thank you.

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Posted by: Nightingale ( )
Date: October 09, 2020 04:00PM

You are the best, Tevai. You always make me smile and feel gratified. I wish you lived on my block and we could mask it and socially distance together!

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Posted by: Tevai ( )
Date: October 09, 2020 04:12PM

Nightingale Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You are the best, Tevai. You always make me smile
> and feel gratified. I wish you lived on my block
> and we could mask it and socially distance
> together!

:D

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Posted by: Done & Done ( )
Date: October 09, 2020 04:43PM

That was excellent---relatively speaking, of course.

Not sure my relatives would agree, but again, that makes it all relative.

When I was a kid I still remember someone saying that every single action you make has an effect on the entire world. Made no sense at the time and that is why I remember it. Now I sort of get it though couldn't put it into words. Every action begets a reaction even if you are not aware and even if the reaction some how reveals itself in Uzbekistan. Like you litter and it ends up in the ocean killing a dolphin.

We are so inter-related. Makes some uncomfortable, relativity. And thus the need to divide in order to conquer. In order to give their minds the orderliness required for the needed complacency. They want strong clear black and white boundaries because they have the need to have all defined clearly, wrapped up and tied with a bow. No unknowns, please. Because unknowns threaten our need to control.



I know that was a rambling ramble. I swear I'm not drunk.

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Posted by: Tevai ( )
Date: October 09, 2020 05:19PM

Done & Done Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> When I was a kid I still remember someone saying
> that every single action you make has an effect on
> the entire world. Made no sense at the time and
> that is why I remember it. Now I sort of get it
> though couldn't put it into words. Every action
> begets a reaction even if you are not aware and
> even if the reaction some how reveals itself in
> Uzbekistan. Like you litter and it ends up in the
> ocean killing a dolphin.

Yes!

Maybe twenty or so years ago, I read an article in TIME magazine about a young black man who had just become an M.D.--even though his childhood and adolescence were mostly spent homeless.

He talked about a teacher he had (in junior high, I think) who realized that when he skipped class, it was because he had no clean clothes, and the ones he was wearing were definitely not socially acceptable at that moment.

She took him to a nearby laundromat and, together, they washed and dried all of his clothes, plus what he used for a towel, and a covering of some kind for when he slept at night.

She then got the idea of having a washer and dryer installed in the school basement, available (with laundry detergent) at no cost to any student who was dealing with homelessness, or something close to it. The kids who took advantage of this new laundry area not only began to feel like "real people" again, their grades began rising as they gained confidence in themselves. (I think there were also some modifications made in the school premises so kids could shower as well.) Probably the other homeless, or near-homeless, kids didn't make it to an M.D. degree, but as a result of this teacher's initiative, they absolutely had a shot at a normal adult life.

Just briefly talking to someone can make a significant difference in their life.

When I was working for the fan magazines, I was driving near the home of my infancy in South Los Angeles. On a corner near to where my parents' house had been (the property is now home to a Bank of America branch office) there was a bus stop, and on the bench was a man I thought might in trouble. (For those who don't know, after my family moved to the San Fernando Valley, South L.A. became a high-crime area.) I felt I should stop and make sure he was not bleeding to death or something--so I did. When I asked him if he was okay, he assured me that he was, he just needed to sleep....but in his eyes, I could see that my stopping to check on his welfare had restored him in some way--someone had shown him that he was important enough to inquire about. Someone had CARED.

The littlest of things (smiling and saying "Hi" to the baby beside you in the grocery line) can have major positive consequences, and those ripple through the society in ways far to numerous and complex to understand.

The people whose lives the black M.D. saved and made better will likely never know that he was there for them when they needed him because, once upon a time, one of his teachers realized that he was homeless and he very badly needed to wash his clothes--and she made sure it happened.

We--all of us, every one of us individually--have this kind of power, and after a lifetime of living this way, none of us will ever know how whatever we did resulted in good outcomes that, otherwise, would never have happened.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/09/2020 05:22PM by Tevai.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: October 09, 2020 05:23PM

Beautiful, Tevai.

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Posted by: Tevai ( )
Date: October 09, 2020 05:30PM

Thank you.

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: October 09, 2020 05:31PM

A small amount of genuine caring can go a long way.

BTW, Tevai, that idea about keeping clothes washers and dryers in schools really took off. It's now not unusual at all for urban schools to have a washer and dryer.

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Posted by: Tevai ( )
Date: October 09, 2020 05:34PM

summer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> BTW, Tevai, that idea about keeping clothes
> washers and dryers in schools really took off.
> It's now not unusual at all for urban schools to
> have a washer and dryer.

This is a wonderful thing to know!

Thank you!

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Posted by: Nightingale ( )
Date: October 09, 2020 06:20PM

I notice with COVID there is much less casual social interaction. People keep their distance here and don't make eye contact as freely as we did before. It feels lonely at times. I didn't expect that. So sure, saying hello can make someone's day.

I saw a homeless-looking guy at the mall the other day. I asked him if he was hungry (I happened to have an extra sandwich in my car). He said he was OK and then called out "I love you". That startled me a bit - it was certainly unexpected - but it made me smile.

Casual exchanges between strangers can be powerful. Even more so if you're in a position to really effect change.

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: October 09, 2020 07:00PM

I dislike the uncertainty created by my mask covering my smile.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: October 09, 2020 10:17PM

Well, at least people can't see your missing teeth.

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Posted by: Done & Done ( )
Date: October 09, 2020 06:31PM

Beautiful Tevai.

And you gave me a laugh:

"(For those who don't know, after my family moved to the San Fernando Valley, South L.A. became a high-crime area.)"

Seems to lead one to believe that the only reason South LA became high crime is that you were no longer there to keep things under control! Which is sort of believable.

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Posted by: Tevai ( )
Date: October 09, 2020 07:11PM

Done & Done Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "(For those who don't know, after my family moved
> to the San Fernando Valley, South L.A. became a
> high-crime area.)"
>
> Seems to lead one to believe that the only reason
> South LA became high crime is that you were no
> longer there to keep things under control! Which
> is sort of believable.

Naw....it was the GI Bill. Thanks to a $6,000 GI Bill construction loan, my parents were able to buy an incredible lot on top of a wonderful hill in Woodland Hills AND build a very nice, two-story plus basement house, which is now (I just Googled it) valued at $976,308.

Just about everyone I grew up with had parents who did the same thing. I cannot even estimate how many sleepovers I was a part of which were hosted on the bare concrete (which is bone-marrow-chilling COLD!) floors of partially-built, GI Bill financed, new homes. (Back then, most couples were doing most of the actual construction themselves, so individual homes could take 10 or more years sometimes before they were--at last!-- FINISHED.)

I loved (and still love) our former house on Santa Barbara Avenue, but South L.A. was not nearly as valued to my parents or other close family members as it was to me. (Everyone in my close extended family moved to the SFV as soon as GI Bill construction loans were available.)

On the other ("older") side of L.A. downtown, those who bought and moved into our (SFV residents) former homes in South L.A. were not able to move to most of the SFV because this was prohibited by law. I am vehemently not defending these legal facts of life which were in effect, just stating that these WERE the facts of California law back then. Until well into the later 1960s, only the far-to-the-SFV-east communities of Pacoima, and possibly the community of San Fernando itself, were the closest-to-the-Valley many Angelenos were legally allowed to purchase land in, or to live on, SFV residential property at that time.

I moved to the Valley when I was about three or four years old.

I had no voice at all in the decisions being made by my parents (or any of my other close relatives) at that time.

I understand the wrongs, but I was not any part of them.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 10/16/2020 03:47AM by Tevai.

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Posted by: dagny ( )
Date: October 09, 2020 06:14PM

Every once in a while they let us dawgs gnaw on a troll or political topic treat. Then we have to go back to our regular dog food posts. :-)

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: October 09, 2020 06:17PM

dagny Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Then we have to go
> back to our regular dog food posts. :-)

Does it involve a cat?

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: October 09, 2020 06:19PM

You're not a dawg, Dagny. You're a gawd.

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Posted by: Beth ( )
Date: October 09, 2020 09:49PM

That is a true statement.

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Posted by: Soft Machine ( )
Date: October 10, 2020 06:05AM


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Posted by: Beth ( )
Date: October 09, 2020 09:48PM

If you wrote 1,000 books, I would read every one. <3

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Posted by: Nightingale ( )
Date: October 10, 2020 12:21AM

Sweet, Beth.

Not in a Mormon way. :)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/10/2020 12:22AM by Nightingale.

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Posted by: GNPE ( )
Date: October 10, 2020 01:31AM

Dawgs are University of Washington HUSKIES!

GO DAWGS!!

WIN DAWGS!!!

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: October 10, 2020 01:56AM

GO GAWDS!!!

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Posted by: dagny ( )
Date: October 10, 2020 10:41AM

What if God was Dog spelled backwards?

(Thanks for the kind words, all you dawg gawds.)

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