My ds has been through the ringer lately with depression/delusions, etc. He came home today saying he was going to start going to church with a friend. Now, I have said he could go to activities, as there isn't much else to do sometimes, and he needs friends. I ALWAYs brought no mo friends and never tried to convert them.

So he said that, and I said as long as they don't try to convert you. and you are NOT getting baptized. To which he slammed his basketball against the wall or fence, i dont remember, and he swore, which now is pretty funny when you think about it.

I said, when you are 18 you can make that decision, but no way now, you don't have any idea what it's all about. he tried to tell me that I dont know everything and all that, and I told him I do about this and that he had no idea what he was getting into.

So, I know I won't give permission, and his dad won't, so I'm safe there. I don't know if I should even let him see it. I think that if he goes he will think it's fun to be with his friend, but that other things will be as boring as hell, as he is easily bored and needs to be doing something.

Maybe he is just trying to find a way to fit in or to be happy. I don't know what to do at this point. He was doing ok the past week or two, and just crashed yesterday. I feel so heartbroken for him but I also know that tscc is NOT the thing to make him feel good about himself.

Yes, he is in therapy, he plays football, though he was so bummed he couldn't even deal with practice yesterday. Doesn't help that his coach totally sucks rocks and so does the coaches son.......I am so occupied with school, a few more weeks so I have all the heavy stuff and he has spring break but I have no time,a nd his dad is taking off to a concert with his partner out of state but hasn't clued in to take him with to get him out of dodge.

Anyway, I wonder if I am right to say no to baptism even if he hates me for it. I think in some ways it would be harmless. His friend who got baptized a couple months ago now says he is not mormon and laughs about it. But I don't know. I know it would not be good for him to have to do all the shit, yeah, he can play basketball, that's great. But priesthood and shit, and no way is he going to wear a white shirt. I think if he went to the real meetings he would hate it, I hope.

sigh. I never knew how hard it would be with a teenager, I totally empathize with those of you who have been there...and I only have 1, to which now I am thankful, though I would have liked 2, but didn't have control in that area.

Ok, just frustrated. Another thing for my kid to hate me for saying no.

Here's how I see it. If you tell the kid he can't do it before he's 18, you probably increase the chances he'll do it as an act of rebellion after 18. Also, like you said, your son is not a typical Mormon kid and will not fit in. Let him do it and realize that he hates it. Hopefully, that will immunize him against converting later.

If he wants to be a Mormon, then he'll eventually get baptized anyway. If he doesn't want to be a Mormon, let him figure that out himself, rather than setting yourself in opposition to TSCC and giving him another way to rebel to piss you off. If you're nonchalant/neutral, he will probably get into the church far enough to realize that he belongs OUT of the church...but if you're vehemently against, you're motivating him to dig further in. That's the way the teen years seem to work, at least to this set of eyes.

Oh, and if he doesn't stick with Mormonism, all baptism will do is get him wet.

Tell him to do it, it will be the best thing he ever does in his life!

It's tough but, best of luck with this.

Tell him he can do it after he's gone to church for six months in a row, without missing a single sunday or church event. Also inform him that he will have to tithe 10% of his allowance and gift money to the church, and you will be enforcing this. (though I don't suggest you actually give that money to the church, I'm not sure about the logistics of this one). Maybe... hopefully he won't make it for six months in a row, and won't have any desire to once his allowance is 10% less.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/07/2011 02:48AM by wittyname.

Parents must protect their children. The church is NOTHING but destructive. You need to protect him from the church. Tell him that as a parent it is not your job to continually make him happy. He may not understand your decision now but hopefully he will someday. There is no way to say that if you say no now that he will still be interested in 4 years. Perhaps allow him to go to church, or go with him to Sac. Mtg. once so he isn't so curious. But under no circumstance should you allow him to be baptized. IMO anyways.

You are absolutely right. All children should be kept at home and locked in a closet until you absolutely have to let them out legally when they turn 18. That way they won't be exposed to anything and you will have done your job as a parent. Don't let them drive, go to movies, to school, any type of social activity where they will meet the wrong type of people (whatever that is for you), restrict diet to supplements and water, keep him in a bubble, that way he will stay pure---to your exacting standards. Wouldn't it make more sense to let him go, but to also take him to visit other churches as well? You can't control your child forever, as much as you'd like to it seems.

Send him to this site and let him look at this site for a couple weeks and let him make a decision then! Genius! I'm awesome. :D Hehehe.

EVERY mormon church activity is a conversion tool. This includes basketball and swimming parties, ice cream socials and Halloween trunk or treat parties. No one is a "friend" in the mormon church in the same sense of the word as in the secular world. Friendship is a manipulation tool among mormons even though many of them might not fully realize it.

What should a parent do if a child is determined to take up smoking, drugs, gang activity, or cultism? I think they should talk to a professional about intervention. I'm not an expert, but I know I wouldn't sit back, do nothing, and hope a child would be smarter than many mature adult converts who have jobs, family, friends, and maturity on their side.

Mormonism isn't a church, it is a cult. It is damaging emotionally and psychologically and intellectually. Please keep in mind that the cult still has not accounted for the blood it has shed of its own members when those members were perceived to not be following the dogma. Neither has the cult accounted for the blood it has shed of those who were not members, but were passing through the territory to California.

Mormon dogma isn't something to foster upon any person, let alone one's own child. It was wise to inform him that he must wait until he is 18 so that he can choose for himself.

He may hate you now, however, he will thank you later.

Glad2B Out

Tell him he can get baptized but he has to read and research first. Tell him there is nothing wrong with fully researching something before you are putting your whole life and soul into it.

I would take a topic from Mormonthink.com (without showing him the site). Then use all church approved references to show the real truths to each topic.

Take it slow so these things can sink in. Otherwise he will think you are shoving it down his throat.

Heathjh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tell him he can get baptized but he has to read
> and research first. Tell him there is nothing
> wrong with fully researching something before you
> are putting your whole life and soul into it.
>
> I would take a topic from Mormonthink.com (without
> showing him the site). Then use all church
> approved references to show the real truths to
> each topic.
>
> Take it slow so these things can sink in.
> Otherwise he will think you are shoving it down
> his throat.


Absolutely. Tell him he can make his own decision but as his parent you intend to make sure it's an informed one which will included non-approved sources. Ask him what one or two claims MUST be true for the church to be true. First vision, great apostacy, etc. Then study that topic indepth.

14 isn't old enough to make such a decision. My parents gave me permission once I was 17, but I wish they'd made me wait until I was 18.

The Book of Abraham contains cool looking Egyptian artwork and the supposed translations-
Here's the real translations

http://www.bookofabraham.com/boamathie/BOA_6.html
http://www.bookofabraham.com/boamathie/BOA_7.html

My dear grand daughter decided to get baptized in a Christian church. It was a social decision. Her Dad said no.
She was being pressured by her friends. So it made it easy for her to blame it on her Dad.
She changed friends a few months later and was never baptized.

14 is too young to make that kind of decision.
A 14 year old doesn't have a driver's license. A 14 year old can't vote. A 14 year old can't buy cigarettes, liquor.
14 year olds have to live with their parents and can't have jobs.

NO is the answer.

K

consider who you are, & where you are, and what is he trying to avoid hanging out with mormons. recall that mormons, while always fellowshipping, in the mission zone do not shun loners or less popular sitting at the mormon 'table' in a 2500 student high school (with less than 30 mormon youth)

14 is old enough to experience being left out or bullying, the mormon group must be serving some need. or why would he be attempting to seek unity with them.

if you are hispanic & your child is trying to avoid gangs being religious is a pretty good way to do it, just lds, Not catholic (many are catholic) (not pentacostal, many are pentacostal too). . . but the gang affiliation pretty much follows the family into lots of churches I have seen in lots of cultures. but not lds.

of course 14 is pretty late to just begin to claim or be jumped in. but it is NOT too late to be pressured in the community. you would have to look at your high school & whatever social groups are there or in your community.

obviously any teen who wants to convert is seeking to meet unmet social needs, or to meet unmet ____ needs (recreation, groups, attention, events,), or is seeking safety (social or physical or emotional safety) through the group.

consider the needs of the person who is 14.

so that might be how mormonism acts as a social control/ safe zone to avoid gangs- differently than a group without all those controls.

again consider the kids' needs... rather than say no, do something to look at his life & intercede for his needs whatever they are. improve it.

Hang in there, nomomomo. Parenting teenagers can be very difficult. Mine didn't get there brains back until they hit their early 20's. Then they really grew up and suddenly understood everything we had tried to tell them when they were teenagers. It should get better, but it may get worse first. My advice is to stick to your guns. There will be plenty of time for him to get baptised when he becomes an adult if he still wants to. He may eventually thank you for sparing him this mistake. While your son is 14, it's your call.

The teenage years are nature's natural birth control. If we knew what our kids teenage years would be like, we might not have kids - ever.

When you tell him the 10% part, give an example from real life from an adult's perspective. For example, when a teen gets 20$ allowance, its no big deal to give $2 to the church. When he goes out into the world and gets his first real job, for, say, $2000 a month, thats $200 that he HAS to give to the church if he's mormon. $200 to a young adult, hell, for any adult, is alot of money. That'll make him think.

The problem here is that this child has been allowed to participate in a cult and now is being pressured by the cult to officially join.

Instead of a parent taking an active interest, he/she seems to be sitting back and hoping the young child will make a responsible adult decision.

It will not likely happen. Whatever a child decides, it will be based on peer pressure more than on historical and doctrinal information he's forced to read.

We don't let our kids decide to eat six brownies a day or skip school whenever there's test. We don't let them play violent video games or see violent sexually explicite movies. I think kids deserve to have their parent's counsel and supervisiton until they're mature enough to support themselves and live independently.

If we wouldn't let them join crepts or the bloods, we shouldn't let them join a religious cult which cares primarily about building membership and doesn't love them as much as a parent does.

He would think you are cool for leting him do it. Age limits are there for a reason. He gets to drive at 16. He gets to drink at 21. He gets to vote and register for selective service at 18. Age 18 is when he is deemed old enough to make his own decisions. If he does join the church before that, he didn't make that decision. You did. He would not be responsible for that mistake. You would.

Now that's funny.

Simply tell them, that under no circumstances do you give your permission to baptize him. You have already told him no, and if he gets baptized and especially if he is confirmed (which will need to be done under the Bishops direction) you will press charges.

I mention this because missionaries can be sneaky and he could get wet without your knowledge, as kids are prone to do, but he cannot get confirmed without full knowledge of the Bishop.

I dunno, can you press charges? Well it sounds good and authoritative, and according to church rules, an underage child needs parental/legal guardian consent.

Your son doesn't hate you, but he is going to be hating on you for a while, for this and then intermittently for whatever pops up for a few years whenever you say no. Last night my 15 year old granddaughter gave me serious hell for tickling the bottom of her foot! Sigh.

Teens = out of proportion (but temporary) responses.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/07/2011 11:37AM by Adult of god.

I was 14, my older sister was Mo, my parents were not. Mom gave her permission after talking seriously with me about it. I had been baptized in a non-demoninational at 12. THIS SECOND BAPTISM WAS THE GREATEST MISTAKE OF MY LIFE. I am now 68 and am still trying to unravel the consequences of this foolish decision when I was but a child. The Big Mo can take credit for setting me up to fail in marriage and then f*** up every gay relationship I was ever in because of lingering guilt engendered by the MO.

14 year olds have a natural tendency to migrate toward religion. I would suggest a good gaming set up and hope he gets addicted to being a gamer instead. Move him to a non-mo boy scout troop (and make sure the leaders aren't closet child molestors). Take him to a different church every Sunday for a couple of months. For every missionary lesson he wants to take with the Mo have him talk to the JWs or some other group that does missionizing.

Finally, just say no! He will be treated as a martyr and get to enjoy being a hero as he patiently waits until he can make his own decision. 18 is too young, but at that point there is little you can do.

You would have anyone get involved with a religious group that would withhold blood---most especially to a dying child---and just let them die? That is just sick. And their actions with regards to children is just plain murder.

You might also point out that his little factory will be off limits until he is married. What 14 year old can honestly cope with that.

I am a big proponent of talking to kids. You have very good reasons for not wanting him to become Mormon, and 14 is plenty old enough for him to know about them. Shoot, if he were baptized, he would be a priesthood holder in no time!

He may not legally be old enough to make his own decisions about his life, but he may feel mature enough to. I made some big decisions when I was 14 and have big regrets. But my parents never talked to me, not ever.

... was to keep them out of the Mormon Cult. I was BIC, forced to attend church as I was growing up. I started doubting at age 14, and quit attending meetings at age 17. That was the best decision I ever made.

And when I got married at age 26 and we had two kids, they never had to deal with the Cult. That broke a chain of 5 generations of Mormons. It irritated my parents, but that was their problem, not mine.

Your child is too immature to understand what this is really about. He is lucky to have a parent who does understand and is willing to look out for the child's best interests. Keep up the good work, even though it is difficult. Tough love is not easy.

I'd lay off. If he wants to go to church, it's likely because of the social aspect. It has nothing to do with religion. It appears he has a strong desire for friendship. He's not going to like the "church" part of it. I can almost guarantee that. In fact, most 14-year-old TBMs hate church and would skip it if they could.

Instead of focusing on what he's asking, I'd be more inclined to focus on "why" he's asking. He has some unmet needs going on. What I would try to do is reverse the tables. Instead of having his friends take him to church, why not invite those friends to some activities at your place. Or invite them to fun places to hang-out. That will also expose their true intentions. Are they asking him to go to church because church leaders asked them to ask your son to go to church? Maybe they don't even have friendship as a goal, just conversion.

Most typical teenagers would far prefer doing exciting and fun things than go to church. So, invite the "friends" to go with your son to games, movies, rock climbing, go-cart racing, mall, hiking, sporting events, whatever. Tell your son you'd be willing to take him to places like that and pay for it. That will fulfill his need for friendship and diminish the need to go to church with them.

But it seems like you son needs a lot of support right now from you and peers. So, I'd find whatever way you can to do that.