I received a rate alert: $550 round trip to Osaka. Sounded good. Bought tickets.

We'll be there for four days (technically 4.5). We're going to get 3-day Kansai Thru Passes, and we'll catch the train to Hiroshima. That's pretty much all we know right now.

She only gets 40 hours of vacation a year -- that's why we aren't staying very long. I don't think we could afford to stay in a hotel much longer anyway.

We are roamers without a set agenda. We are definitely going to Kyoto, and I imagine she's going to be all up in the shops looking for manga and playing games.

Does anyone have advice about, well, anything?

Suggest a virtual exploration with Google Earth first -- gander about see what piques the interest. Can cover the entirety in a matter of hours

Sometimes delving into a bit of history research can give a place added depth. Japan and her culture are obscured to westerners.

Kyoto is close, and probably Nara. You have to see those.

Kyoto is about 90 minutes away from Osaka. If I were you, I'd probably arrange a tour although you can do it yourself as well. In fact, traveling in a place like that is safe and simple. It would be an adventure to do it on your own with a map or a guide book.

Google Kyoto and look at the pics.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/13/2020 09:34PM by Lot's Wife.

Osaka is a food lover's paradise. Just wander and try the local cuisine. Okonomiyaki (ingredients of your choice added to cabbage and batter and grilled like a savory pancake), hakozushi (box sushi), and takoyaki (little fried balls of battered octopus, ideally fresh cooked from a street vendor) are must tries.

Does Japan allow Americans to visit? Last I heard, we were personæ non gratæ in most of the world because of you-know-what.

And I get that it's in 10 months, and many of us will be vaccinated by then – but still, who knows what the overall health situation will be.

Thanks so much.

Yes, we're definitely going to Kyoto, and the Kansai Thru Passes will allow us to use public transportation alllll over the place for $60 each. https://www.surutto.com/images/ticket/kansai_thru_pass/english/en_map.pdf We chose Osaka over Tokyo because we read that although it's a large city, there are more opportunities to go off the beaten path than there are in Tokyo.

I'm a fan of Lonely Planet, so I'm going to be checking out their books and their Thorn Tree forum.

But y'all are the authorities! Spent two years in Japan? You are an authority.

@Anonymous Muser: Our plane tickets are refundable if we can't travel due to Covid, so that's cool.

@LW: Read, Girl. Read. :)

@ookami: I love me some street food. I don't love me some sea creatures. I think food is going to be difficult for me because I don't care for (read: Hate, hate, hate) seafood. No one believes me, and they say I haven't had it prepared properly and I should order the [fish]. So, fine. I give it another go, I hate it, and people eat my damn fish. I will probably try it anyway. Because. Japan! Where I learned to love smelly things from the water.

@Dr. No: Yes! We need a reading list! History and memoirs. DD is brushing up on her Japanese -- I don't think she knows any. She thinks she does. We'll see.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/14/2020 10:41PM by Beth.

Beth, when you get a chance you should take Naomi to Japan. It'd be unforgettable!

HA!

One of the reasons I recommend okonomiyaki as a dish to try is that it doesn't have seafood if you don't want seafood. The name literally means "what you like cooked over direct heat." Some folks compare it to pizza, but there's no exact dish that matches it in America.

And sorry, I should have listed some beef and pork (if you're okay with pork) dishes as well.

No apologies! I'm the weirdo, and yes, I'm a big fan of pork and beef!

Then more food options for you in Osaka are: Doteyaki (beef tendon simmered in miso and mirin), kushikatsu (breaded cuts of meat or vegetables skewered and fried. Think "tonkatsu on a stick"), kitsune udon (udon noodles with pieces of fried tofu, said to be a favorite dish of foxes in folklore), and mouthwatering beef dishes (Kobe, home of the best beef in the world, isn't far from Osaka) are all options.

And don't worry about being a weirdo! I'm one too!

Those sound delicious! :D

Japan is trying to start opening back up to limited tourism. Who knows how it will be in 10 months. I think you'll be ok.

Kobe port is nice. Chinatown,

Many places with good eateries around Umeda and plenty to do. Take a cooking class for an afternoon and learn some basics of Japanese cuisine.

Osaka Castle, day trip to Himeji Castle if you like that type of thing.

A day each in Nara and Kyoto and you still will feel short changed. You'll have to prioritize what you want to see the most in each area.

You can find some nice hotels that won't break the bank. Find one that has a breakfast buffet included. Saves you breakfast and maybe lunch $ depending on your eating habits/requirements. Usually will have both Japanese and Western menu items. You don't need the deluxe expensive hotels. You can find clean, safe hotels, in the $80-120 range.

I'm envious.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/14/2020 12:06AM by mankosuki.

Is it a 24-hour city? We're arriving at ~4:30 pm. So after we get to the hotel and clean up, we'll probably head out and walk around. That's how we roll. I haven't been on vacation since she's been of drinking age, so I think we might have to tie one on, go to Amerikamura and sing a karaoke duet just to say that we went to Japan and sang a karaoke duet like morons, and hold that memory dear.

ETA: Oh! just read your advice about hotels. Yeah - some are ridiculously expensive ($2-3K). I hope we're not in our room that often to enjoy the ceiling to floor city views from a corner on the 60th floor. Actually, that does sound pretty kickass but not practical.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/14/2020 12:28AM by Beth.

Sure it's a 24hr City. Safe, but you'll run into a lot more drunks the later it gets. Stay out to late and you might not get a train home after 02:00 or so. Check the train schedule if your going to depend on that mode of transportation late at night. Taxi's always available.

October is probably just a little early for the fall foliage but the weather should be great.

Tried my first sake in Osaka.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/14/2020 12:23AM by mankosuki.

I have never had sake. I don't think that business at Benihana counts.

I'm getting excited. At first I was like, "Did I just book tickets to Japan?" I haven't seen my kid in five years, and I haven't left this country in 20 years. It's nice to have something to look forward to for a change.

I wanted to send my kid to Japan for graduation, but that didn't pan out. I never thought I'd get to go. I swear I'd better not die between now and then.

The Japanese government is subsidizing hotel stays to encourage tourism. They are offering up to 30% off coupons for hotel stays through the STAYNAVI program. https://staynavi.direct/stay/top

The page is in Japanese. Google translate kind of helped, but not much.

I think it's only for locals, and I think it's only for a limited amount of time and/or until the funds are depleted.

If you're in Japan, maybe it will be of use to you.

THERE ARE NATURAL HOT SPRINGS IN OSAKA! BONUS!

Japanese national pasttime.
You can stay at an all inclusive plush "onsen" resort that includes extravagant dining options with your stay and bath, or a simpler place just to relax and soak for an afternoon.
Nothing better than getting naked with the locals.

naked with a group of people. It's not exactly on my bucket list, but why not? Naked in Japan!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/14/2020 12:09PM by Beth.

It's a good thing to do. Experiencing nakedness with other people without it being a thing. You get a sense of the collective, and yet simultaneously private, element of Japanese culture.

It's a country of immense contradictions existing in balance.

Lot's Wife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's a good thing to do. Experiencing nakedness
> with other people without it being a thing. You
> get a sense of the collective, and yet
> simultaneously private, element of Japanese
> culture.
>
> It's a country of immense contradictions existing
> in balance.


Right up until the moment a crew of maybe young bucks from the States sit right in on it. Next day at breakfast in dining area, "Hey, you have a super cool wifey!"

Have done the "let's all take a bath together with older traditional Japanese business partners. Being the only circumcised creature in the dressing rooms gets some pretty unusual looks.

Ha! :-)

That includes foreigners who are residents. From the FAQ via Google Translate:


"Are foreigners living in Japan eligible?"
"The purpose of this project is to stimulate domestic travel demand, so if you are a resident of Japan, you can also use it for foreign residents."


https://helpfeel.com/staynavi-traveler/%E6%97%A5%E6%9C%AC%E5%9C%A8%E4%BD%8F%E3%81%AE%E5%A4%96%E5%9B%BD%E4%BA%BA%E3%81%AF%E5%AF%BE%E8%B1%A1%E3%81%A8%E3%81%AA%E3%82%8B%E3%81%8B-5f7c6e122f6071001fa09109


Here's another source about it in English:

https://www.japan-guide.com/news/0053.html

Insofar as this seems to be a



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/15/2020 09:33AM by Tyson Dunn.

Yes. I agree. I made an account anyway but received no joy.

Nice 360 views of the city if you have time between trips to Hiroshima, Kyoto and Nara. If your wandering around the area some evening or your hotel is in the area. So many places to explore just in Osaka.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umeda_Sky_Building

Another interest tidbit.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=C5gRAMFdO_Y



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/14/2020 01:38AM by mankosuki.

Oh! That's a great way to settle a land dispute :-) As for high rise buildings, we're afraid of heights (I know. I know. Even in enclosed areas), but we'll give it a shot. The key is to look down, take slow steps and stop and look up so your eyes can adjust to the drop.

I did okay in the Badlands. DD, nine years old at the time, needed some help. I did alright on Moro Rock in Kings Canyon until I got to the bridge. Vertigo. I sat off on the side next to a bench while people ran, RAN, up and down and out to and back from that thing.

DD was about five years old and chilling in the car listening to Seal. I thought, "Welp. I guess I'm going to live here. I hope someone takes care of DD, because I'm a wreck. Maybe they'll bring a helicopter with a basket. But how will I get in the basket?" Every time I stood up, I got dizzy. I tried to blame it on altitude sickness, but I think it was my body saying, "Fool. That's a long way down if a gust of wind blows you off that bridge."

A man stopped and asked me if I was okay. He helped me up and told me to look only at the back of his shoes, and we went down to the parking lot. I was saved! My car wasn't opened like an aluminum tin and Naomi wasn't eaten by bears! I hope that guy is well and enjoying his life.

https://www.nps.gov/seki/planyourvisit/moro.htm

The hotel I have stayed at a lot is listing unbelievably low prices. You might be able to find even a better bargain at an expensive hotel. The tower hotel by the Shin station I stay at has a very large Japanese garden with flowing water features attached to it, in the middle of grubby industrial downtown Osaka. Its great to sit in the Garden before work or after meetings and do homework for business trips.

:-) I was using Google translate to look at hotels via staynavi. They were much less expensive, and there were many more listed. Some of the translations were off, unless one is a brothel.

Speaking of which, there's an awesome hotel in Cabo San Lucas that used to be a brothel. For some reason they took the brothel business off the website. Anyway, if you give them a call and offer to pay cash, you will get a nice discount: https://www.caboinnhotel.com/?page_id=1004

I'm finding hotels at < $500 for our total stay (I haven't looked at taxes and fees). Nice.

I've visited Osaka many times on business trips. Unfortunately almost all of the time I was escorted by company representatives who guided me around so I am not much use in telling you which restaurants to try.

It looks like everyone has suggested you spend most of your time near Osaka in Kyoto and that you definitely visit the Temple Grounds at Nara, I would agree 100%

This is an interesting difference between food in Kyoto and OSaka, and in Osaka you can also easily find and order your own working man's food that is much less expensive than meals in fancy restaurants. Learn to look for places that sell takoyaki (octopus based, very good and cheap),"curries", cutlets and basic donburi rice bowl and noodle bowl places. On the coast you can find blue collar lunch tables that sell fish like mackrel that is inexpensive. If you have not eaten in japan before you might want to take some granola bars or other prepared dried food in your suitcase you can eat if you find the food disagrees with you. Sushi/Sashimi in Osaka is usually pretty good. In inland cities like Kyoto ask about local dishes, I have favorites but have no clue what they are called.

To everyone else in a similar situation, I advise not to try to see too much. I've encountered visitors to Italy who only intended to spend 5 days there, and who intended to travel up and down the peninsula because Italy is "a very small country." That's where they're wrong. In Italy, Japan, Germany, or everywhere, it's bad news to assume that you're in "a very small country." Culturally, Japan is ENORMOUS, and you would be hard-pressed to find anything that you can visit for an hour before boarding a train for a 2-hour trip to another place you'll visit for one hour. So stay put, and enjoy. Also, please consider how you lose a day on the trip there, and if you have to transit via Tokyo, you often have to spend a forced overnight in the Tokyo area before catching trains, which chops a day off your trip. But enjoy, anyway. Just don't bite off too much.

Great advice!
Don't try to over do it. Pick a few places that interest you and enjoy at a leisurely pace. We could all give you our personal favorites but everyone is different.
A guided tour could help you see more as they have the transportation times down and schedule at each point of interest. Saves you time waiting for trains or buses, and wandering aimlessly trying to find where your going.(that can be part of the experience though) Downside is you are on their schedule and can't decide to spend more time if something really impresses you.
I hope that you will enjoy the experience.

:-)

I don't do the guided tour thing because I don't play well with others.

Eventually my kid and I will list a few things we must see, and the rest of the time we'll go wherever.

I went to Cairo for a week. The two must sees were Giza and the museum. The rest of the time I hung out with some guys who worked in a shop. One afternoon we went sailing (I use that term very, very loosely), in a felucca on the Nile. They kicked back and got high while I damn near got us hit by a river bus. I told them I'd never been sailing. They should have believed me.

Then we went to chill at Saqqara and spent at day with one of their families in Abu Sir. They were Bedouins who were basically forced to settle there. It broke my heart. I also went to the Citadel to see the mosque. I could have skipped the military museum. I walked around the Coptic Christian area and just did whatever. I was cool with locals taking me to their friends' or families' stores - I'm sure they got a kickback. Didn't care.

The thing I had going for me was that I could pass for Egyptian - definitely American, but I can stil pass. I learned to say "I'm not a stupid tourist, I'm an Egyptian," and then I'd switch to English and pay the Egyptian price for stuff like bottled water, a taxi ride or koshary.

One night we went to a park in Cairo that only Egyptians can visit. I was told to keep my mouth shut. It was nice until I almost was arrested for not keeping my mouth shut.

I ate camel. I smoked apple tobacco and drank hibiscus tea with old men in an old alley. I drank warm Egyptian beer (disgusting). I ate and drank off food carts. At one I drank something in a glass made of, well, glass. It tasted similar to Lassi. I stood there, drank it, returned the glass and ate my sweet potato as I walked down some road going somewhere. That's how I like to roll. My kid is more laid back than I am when it comes to travel. This will be her first trip overseas. I might just follow her around.

Isn't that museum amazing?

Right past the entrance, to the left, is an obsidian cube about 1.5 feet in each dimension. It is carved as a human bound in that position and shape, illustrating an idea that found it's way into the OT: making your defeated enemy your footstool. I'm told they really did that back in the imperial day.

And the mummies and the sculptures: to die for, especially since there is no air conditioning.

Ha!

The museum is AMAZING. And a mess. Supposedly there are piles of artifacts in the basement - there's no space to put them on display. Some of the artifacts were described on note cards or on yellowing pieces of paper in Egyptian Arabic (EA) and English. Some were just in EA, and some weren't labelled at all.

The only air conditioned part was where the mummies are, and I'm not a huge fan of mummies because they wen't entombed with the intention of being dug up and put on display, but they were, so I enjoyed them keeping that in mind. My kid went on a field trip to the Rosicrucian Egyptian Museum in San Jose. I gave her the mummy speech. When I was a kid, I'd go to Penn's Archaeology and Anthropology museum allll the time. They used to show free movies in the basement on Saturday afternoons. When I was an adult, I took my kid there and we talked about how many things were probably looted, especially in the large room with all of the Buddhas and prayer wheels. Still, we enjoyed it very much. They've expanded it, and it's no longer free unless you beg poverty.

There is a teeny chariot sculpture in the Cairo museum. I think that's my favorite thing.


This is where I stayed: http://lotushotel.com Across the street was a koshary place - throngs of people passed their money up to the counter, and people passed paper plates of food to the back.

I would love to go to Iran, but I don't see that happening in my lifetime. My cousin lived there as a child and moved back as an adult and fled in the '70s. He's promised to tell me stories. He measures stories with wine. He says it's a two-bottler.

I'd love to see Luxor but my travels don't take me that far from Cairo. There was one time I almost made it but then there was a terrorist strike and it wasn't safe even for Egyptians and other Arabs.

I'd love to see Iran. I've been just north of the country, in the Caucasus and some of the -stans, which is cool because Islam in that part of the world originated largely in Persia. And I have a lot of Iranian friends, including some of the Shah's officials and a lot of other refugees. But I'm not sure I'll ever get to Persepolis, which I'd love to see just to gauge the similarities to the Hittite ruins in Turkey and the earliest Greek stuff, all of which are tied together by the common Indo-European invasions.

It would have been nice to have lived in the 1920s, or even the 1950s and 1960s, when the threat of violence in some places was much less. I'd say the 1920s would have been great worldwide: to have seen Taisho Japan or the Peace Hotel on the Bund back in the Wild West days, before global homogenization really accelerated.

But alas. . .

If I were able to go back, I'd go to Alexandria.

As far as traveling in the 1920s? I'm not sure I'd be allowed to leave the country. BUT my great grandmother went to Wales to visit *her* grandmother when my GG was about 5 years old (she went with her father). I think GG was born in 1889. 1898? Something like that. She raised my mother, and I remember her.

Yeah, my dreams of eras past presuppose that I and my friends would have the freedom and income to do such things, and the odds are that that would not be the case.

Thanks for soiling my cloud, Elisabeth.*






*Said to annoy you, whose name is Beth. Not merely Beth or simply Bet but rather a strong Beth voiced with forceful expulsion of air. Sort of like a curse.

:O

I don't like having a monosyllabic name. I've been robbed!

Easily fixed Be'eth.

This is a tour. Not kidding.

Hunting for community cats with your camera in Deep Osaka

It actually sounds like fun


ETA: OMG there is an Origami Jewelry Crafting workshop!!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/14/2020 11:44PM by Beth.

Your really doing your homework.
You can find just about anything that your interested in. There will be a nice Japanese person that will lend a helping hand almost everywhere.
I have a feeling your going to enjoy the trip.

Oh, something about the hotels. Glad your finding some nice prices. A word of caution.... don't be surprised at the size of the room and bed. They are small. Nice, but compact. A "double" I don't think is quite as big aa a full size mattress here.

We booked an osen hotel in the Chou-ku ward. We'll be in a tiny room with two twin beds and a .35 bath. No maid service. There's free dinner (soba noodles - free is free), electric bikes (first two hours are free), a bath on the roof, and we're about 10 minutes away from Amerikamura.

I called DD and asked if she wanted to stay in a ryokan, and she told me she is cool with wherever I want to stay, so I went with the hotel with the osen.

Annnnnd I just learned that I might not be able to use the baths because I have tattoos. I'm hoping that's only for the folks who aren't hotel guests, but now I must go figure that out.

Crap. Be back in a bit.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/15/2020 10:13PM by Beth.

Ooohhhh, the tattoos.
I'm not up to speed on that situation but up until a few years ago most places definitely would refuse service. Didn't matter if your staying at that resort. I thought some places were getting more accommodating. Trying to be more accepting because of the Olympic guests.
Resort specific, and I'd check with where you've made reservations. Hopefully you can find a place that will be ok with it.

Ha! The hotel has 8" x 10" patches. I had to go measure my biggest tattoo. It's 9" long. Phew! Their baths (two indoors, two outdoors, and one cold water one indoors) are also open to the public, and they don't want any gang tattoos. I am a gang of one. I'm really, really glad I decided against a full-on sleeve. Watch me chicken out and not do the osen thing.

Besides regular hotels there are numerous lodging options depending on the type of experience you want to explore. I understand some of them would be uncomfortable if you don't know the language. Just throwing it out there.

Ryokan, you could experience your natural hot spring adventure.

Minshuku, is like a bed and breakfast place. Usually only a few guests.

Pension, usually a little more formal than a minshuku.

One of the best times I've had in Japan was the summer after my mission. The first time I went back. Stayed at a minshuku in the Japan alps area. The hosts were great. There were other young people staying the night. Dinner served family style with the few guests. Fun conversations with everyone.
It was the first time I really was able to enjoy the people and have a conversation without a church agenda as an alterior motive. That church stuff was stifling!

https://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2026.html

I'm a fan of hostels, and I spent last night looking at maps of Kansai hot springs. This process is so interesting.

I'm going to send DD "The Thousand Autumns of Jacob de Zoet" and reread it myself.

I've been instructed that I need to get my vowels straight.

A = ah
I = ee

DD gets annoyed when I stress the wrong syllable, but, as I love to remind people ad nauseam, I am from Philly. We stress any syllable we damn well please unless we decide to elide. "G"? Life is too short to waste on "G"s. Wudurcomezouttadafawsit.

Hiroshima would take two days. One day for the A-Bomb Dome and Hiroshima and one day for Miyajima.

Miyajima is pure magic.

Thanks, Levi. I don't think we'll have time. I wanted to go to bear witness. I can't do that properly if I'm feeling rushed.

Has anyone read George Sansom's three-volume "A History of Japan"?

Yep.

That work is monumental. It's one of those historical treatments that will always be a classic, even if later studies produce new facts, because of the exquisite writing.

I KNEW YOU'D READ IT! OMG! I wish I could place bets on whether you've read [a dry as bones] book! That is so fucking awesome!

Yay YOU!

I'm going to see if the library has a digital version.

It's really big, Beth. I don't think you'll get it done before your trip--although it is absolutely wonderful.

Sansom also did a shorter cultural history which would be a good read and possible. I think you'd love either.

Wait. You don't think I can read three gigantic books in 9.5 months?

You know what a casebook is, right?

ETA: Oh, I'm annoyed. The longest one is like 500 pages and there are pictures! I boo you, Madam. I boo you.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/16/2020 10:39PM by Beth.

We took advantage of an unbelievable covid deal to the Maldives, but, alas, covid ain't done yet (it was for February). We cashed out.

These deals are great if they are 100% refundable. I really hope you make it to Japan next Fall.

Oh no! I'm so sorry. The Maldives were on my list of places I'd book immediately.

Re: Japan - The tickets are refundable, and the hotel reservation can be cancelled the day before. I prepaid, but they will give me a refund.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/16/2020 09:41PM by Beth.