We know he sent a couple of people to Toronto to do that. I have never heard the Church explain why. Does anyone here know? If it was a true record from Moroni why would JS give up those rights to someone who did not have the experience JS had.

If you were the church, how would you handle inquiries about that bit of The Joseph Smith Story?

There's The Truth, whatever it might be, and there's ignoring The Truth, which obviously in this instance is preferable. Because there really is no way for the church to cast this event in a good light.

those canadians ~



where supposed to be lovers ~



of special syrup ~

> where supposed to be lovers ~


                    over there supposed to be lovers,

                    look behind big log! ~

He probably wanted to sell the Canadian franchising rights to raise capital (for himself).

Good point!

And imagine, if someone had purchased the Canadian mormon franchise, all the money that goes yearly to BYU could stay in Canada!

I think that is the common assumption.

But it goes farther: if JS had made a pile of money from that sale, he may not have continued with his church-building effort The Mormon Church might have died in its infancy.

Speaking of infancy, EOD, what are your thoughts on the matter?

I do not have thoughts...


I have feelings!!

Feelings, nothing more than feelings

You are so 1970s!

Mormonism hit you harder than a double shot of tequila.

Perhaps the experts on his biography can fill in the details, but JS made a prophesy that the book would sell. It didn't, thus establishing JS as a false prophet.

At least, that's the way I feel about it.

Remember that Joe was asked about it and said "some revelations are from God and some from the Devil".

Toronto Boy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We know he sent a couple of people to Toronto to
> do that. I have never heard the Church explain
> why. Does anyone here know? If it was a true
> record from Moroni why would JS give up those
> rights to someone who did not have the experience
> JS had.
Because it then as forever and always about M O N E Y !!!!!
"CHURCHES" are all the same in this.Especially the ones that QUALIFY as cults

At the time, US copyrights were not recognized internationally. Selling the rights in Canada would at least protect him in the British Empire.

Additionally the copyright sales at the time were for a set number of years after which the copyright reverted to the author.

First, he WOULD have sold it had his guys not screwed it all up. And had he sold it, it would have provided the hoped-for princely sum of about $600. I don't think that it was a religious text up to that point, but the stuff of a popular novel. I always wonder, had he sold the copyright, would there even be a Mormon church today?

Because no one would buy it in America... AND he was worried about the fallout.

I can't figure Why he would willingly loose control except he wanted more $$$ at that moment & didn't think he had a better way...
btw, How many ppl lived in Canadia then?

1831 census had Upper and Lower Canada at about 800,000 citizens, and roughly another hundred thousand in the Atlantic Provinces.

So, a scant million. The US was nearly 13 million

I'm not at all sure Smith was determined to build a big religion at that point. He'd moved from treasure hunting as a means of getting rich, to writing what he thought would be e remunerative book, and only when that failed did he commit himself to restoring some mythical church.

I wish he'd found buried treasure in his early years. If that had happened, Mormonism would never have been born.

Absolutely. He made it up as he went along changing things to fit the circumstances in which he found himself.

Agreed. I think Joseph was initially intent on producing a work of historical fiction replete with the cultural obsessions of the day. A get rich quick, bestseller for the Frontier and a heck of a lot more profitable than treasure hunting. There was no game plan. What folowed next was improvisation. Hence the multiple, embroidered versions of the First Vision.

I think early on he was just a con man and any con would do. I suspect that even he was probably surprised at how long the con ran, but I also suspect that by the time of his death he felt quite empowered and "successful".

To the point up-thread that if he had managed to come into serious money early that TSCC might not have fully manifest, there's probably truth to that. At the same time, I have a feeling that Smith was probably so narcissistic that the attention and adoration that came with TSCC meant more to him than money, at least beyond the survival that a certain amount of money would provide, and even on a different path he probably would have craved and sought it. Perhaps not to the level of "success" that he enjoyed in his "church," but there's still no telling what kind of havoc he could have wreaked in people's lives.

For example, if he'd become the lord of some sort of manor, he'd have no doubt been contriving things to have his way with the help. There's no disputing that being his early M.O.

When was this, where were the saints located then?

From the little research I've done, 'the saints' were living hand-to-mouth then, any outside $$$ would be Very Welcome!!!


Oh, I 'almost forgot': Joey was a CON MAN, his skills in scamming others didn't happen overnight, it grew in steps;

he (reportedly) even verbalized how gullible (using another word) the saints were.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/22/2021 10:42PM by GNPE.

This is detail given in David Whitmer's An Address to All Believers in Christ. It was before the church was founded, I think. Perhaps even before the Book of Mormon was copyrighted and published in the United States. It was very early on that this happened, and I think David Whitmer is the only source. But, he's also a witness to the plates, so discard his credibility at your peril if you are Mormon. :D



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/23/2021 12:03AM by Cold-Dodger.

Not the only source. The text of the "revelation" can be found in the Joseph Smith Papers.

https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/revelation-book-1/15

Come on guys, just where would we be if the Canadians had the Book of Mormon Musical as theirs? Such a tragedy!

Plus, think of not having.....

1. PTSD by the boat-loads and pharmaceuticals going out of business because of Mormons not buying sh**-loads of depressants.

2. April and October without GC revelations, also by the sh** loads, and Holland's jowels and Eyring's continual flow of tears, Oaks evil eyes and condemning words for the peons, slimy Russell Nelson's oh, so grand "new" miracles while the world population dwindles from Covid, and on and on.

3. Family members that only want to spend time with you if you have that certain membership card (and not Costco) saying that yes, you will give Everything to the LDS, Inc. now and forever and declaring you just love to have date night be temple night.

etc. etc. etc.

He wanted to get rid of the evidence, though there really wasn't any, and to repay his friend (in "the church") and neighbor.

Funny the Book Of Morons has NOTHING to do with Mormonism, though the faith claims it, and it has only to do with fighting fools and their fancy foibles and follys.

He didn't want to sell it in in America because he had begun to doubt his calling and was worried about people, the law(s), and even himself.

He didn't think it would fly in America.

And it doesn't,