Do you think the world will get better at managing natural resources? How do you who live in the US experience how widespread the public awareness is about environmental issues?

In America, Environmental Activism begins on the other side of my property boundaries. As long as the rest of you do what's right for the Environment, my minor excesses will have zero effect on the climate.

So, thank you!

The US is the home of the conspiracy theory. Here on RfM we have been told for years that global warming is a hoax, or that it doesn't matter, or that it is caused by storms on the surface of the sun. We also have posters who belittle Greta Thunberg because she is young, has a pony tail, or acts like the equally maleficent Colin Kaepernick.

Don't expect anything approaching rationality when it comes to climate change either here or from the US as a whole.

Lot's Wife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The US is the home of the conspiracy theory. Here
> on RfM we have been told for years that global
> warming is a hoax, or that it doesn't matter, or
> that it is caused by storms on the surface of the
> sun. We also have posters who belittle Greta
> Thunberg because she is young, has a pony tail, or
> acts like the equally maleficent Colin Kaepernick.
>
>
> Don't expect anything approaching rationality when
> it comes to climate change either here or from the
> US as a whole.

Rationality is generally warped by the concept that fixing problems is not the responsibility of the individual or “above my pay grade”.

The general attitude is reflected in the commonly uttered phrase “They need to do something”.

Conversely, “I need to do something” requires an action by the individual that must be rewarded by immediate change. Since that seldom is the result of the actions of an individual, the prevailing attitude tends to be “They need to fix it, I can’t. I tried and nothing happened.”

You, like EOD, allude to the "free rider" problem.

Lot's Wife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You, like EOD, allude to the "free rider" problem.


Wasn’t that the fatal flaw in the United Order?

Yes.

Moot point, I guess.

We’re in the process of cancelling history.

It no longer matters....

History always matters. I don't think we are in any danger of forgetting the Confederacy, its leaders, and the massacres of the Native Americans. We can remedy the cancellation of those peoples, in fact the cancellation of a lot of American history, by completing the record.

Most of the recent money printing went to free riders. Modern US monetary policy is welfare for the rich, austerity for the poor. The thing that makes “free riders” a problem is that they don’t invest it in productive activity or innovation. Instead, they buy back stock.

Climate change will disappear when the weather gets cold. Like in December. It's like a miracle.

/s

Meanwhile Australia and California go up in, yes, smoke.

Only because they support the wrong political party.

/s

I await the day when your name appears atop a ballot, Mr. Smoke.

Feel free to write it in next time you vote. I'm sure having been an AP is perfect qualification for office.

I was thinking it was your delicious barbecues.

Gender reveal parties are the new “act of God”.

With all the power and authority in my possesion I declare the
planet SAVED!!!!!!!!!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/15/2021 06:55PM by thedesertrat1.

Will they adapt? Evolve? Or perish?

https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/d699f115160c96149fce2febbf9ee582979a5a6a/0_0_6000_4000/master/6000.jpg?width=700&quality=85&auto=format&fit=max&s=3b26297313736296fd24919cfe56ec9c

All three, eventually.

elderolddog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> All three, eventually.


In that order?

You're just trying to trick me into putting 'perish' first or second!

I think adaption (Please feel sorry for me: I was adapted!) and evolution are taking place right now.

I hope we put off 'perish' until the year 2525, so I can hear that song played round the clock.

caffiend Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Will they adapt? Evolve? Or perish?

The man who thinks the January 6 riots were perpetrated by BLM thinks others are sheep?

I have never met a person who advocates for the prevention of global warming and who also lives their lives in a way that says they're doing their part to reduce global warming. I have never seen a public figure who advocates for the prevention of global warming and who also lives their lives in a way that says they're doing their part to reduce global warming. Many people talk about what other people should do to reduce global warming. Even Al Gore has a private jet and a big home.

Why is it that the people who are the most concerned about global warming are not willing to exercise their will over the one thing that they have the most control over, themselves, in pursuit of what they speak of as something that others should do?

Why would Barak and Michelle Obama buy a home on Martha's Vinyard which according to Al Gore's early warnings, should be under water by now or will be under water in the near future? What do the Obama think about how global warming might affect their investment?

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/barack-michelle-obama-just-bought-214928884.html



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/15/2021 09:03PM by azsteve.

Can you point to where Al Gore ever said Martha's Vineyard would be under water by 2021? I don't think you can.

Bypass the google politically skewed AL-gorithms and enter "failed climate predictions" on duckduckgo.com, and you'll come up with plenty. And don't get me on Paul Erlich, who is still believed, after all these years. "You are in the generation that will see the last days," say the patriarchal blessings of billionaire Bishop AL-gore.

And yes, they were predicting a global cooling in in the 1960s and 70s. It was not a few freak outlier articles. Then it became "global warming" in the late 90s. Did the science change, or the political agenda?

Let a million solyndras bloom!

This article will highlight a few false prophesies, I mean, "predictions." Last thought: "Climate change" is the lipstick on the "global warming" pig.

https://www.gopusa.com/gores-no-arctic-ice-in-5-7-yrs-prediction-a-bust/

Edit to provide the missing link (pun intended).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/15/2021 10:45PM by caffiend.

Medical professionals used to think leeches were good medical treatment. Now scientists and physicians think bleeding patients was worse than useless. By your logic, we should not trust today's doctors because earlier ones were wrong.

I take it you never go to the doctor?

In spite of my Christian Science background, I DEFINITELY go to doctors. A little more often at my age. I'm delighted to report I expect to be around to amiably lock horns with you for quite a while!

(Go on, admit it: you'd miss me if I disappeared from the board!)

Fun fact: leeches have actually come back in medical use, a few decades ago. And I'm talking 1st world medicine, too. Apparently they're good for draining blood and fluids in local situations, like blisters and internal, but shallow, hemorrhaging.

Obviously Gore didn't specify Martha's Vinyard. It's easy to figure that if New York is under twenty feet or more of water (which Gore did say would happen in our lifetimes of most people watching his presentation), that any other coastal city (much less an island just barely above sea level), would be similarly under water.

Gore even used a raising water chart to make the point. When starting back several hundred years ago on one side of a large stage, he simply walked accross the stage, showing an ever slow but insignificant increase in the sea level as he walked in front of the waterline in a giant chart spanning accross the stage representing hundreds of years passage of time with virtually no raise in the sea level. Then at the other end of the stage when he reached the end, the chart sloped up drastically. So he climbed a tall latter to reach the symbolic high waterline which would be upon us soon, putting several coastal cities under water within twenty years (almost twenty years ago at that, in 2006). He called it "An Inconvenient Truth". The only inconvenience so far has been a steady increase in fuel prices with global petroleum use skyrocketing. ...and still no twenty foot wall surrounding New York to stave-off the flooding. All of Indonesia should be completely submerged by now, if the planet would only do as Al Gore said it would do.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_Inconvenient_Truth

https://www.independentsentinel.com/uh-oh-al-gore-sea-levels-are-falling-all-around-the-globe/



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 04/15/2021 10:25PM by azsteve.

>All of Indonesia should be completely submerged by now

Indonesia has over 30 peaks of 10,000+ feet elevation.

But don't let facts get the way of your idiocy.

Wow. I've been to Indonesia many times but never realized that.

Thank you.

So Gore is talking in terms of centuries and says that--again in terms of centuries--sea levels will rise dramatically. That sounds right.

Did he really predict a 20-foot rise by now. Having not read the book, I don't know. But the reviews I see now don't substantiate that. For the sake of argument, though, let's assume he did. Would such an error invalidate climate change science?

I realize it's easiest to defeat a particular person or a particular prediction than a scientific theory whose estimates are constantly being refined. Ultimately, however, Al Gore isn't anywhere near as important as the warming that science tells us is indeed occurring.

Do you believe the current science is incorrect?

Yes, the current science is correct.

https://www.independentsentinel.com/uh-oh-al-gore-sea-levels-are-falling-all-around-the-globe/

Maybe I got carried away with the comment about Indonesia. But much of their surface area is very near sea level. No one wants to see a whole nation parrish or nearly parrish. Fortunately, there's not much a chance of that happening.

Then again, beachfront property in Phoenix Arizona might not be all that bad.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 04/15/2021 10:38PM by azsteve.

You send us to a conspiracy theory website to see what NASA says?

Why not go to NASA itself? Oh, because what NASA really says is "Global Mean Seal Level from 1993 to 2020 has been rising about 3.3 millimeters per year."

So there's that.

https://www.nasa.gov/specials/sea-level-rise-2020/

Amazing, isn't it?

NASA is cited as saying the opposite of what it actually says and we are informed that what happened on January 6 was not "an act or instance of revolting against civil authority or an established government."

I wish I'd bought stock in Kool-Aid back in the day. I was foolish enough to think Amazon was a great investment. . .

Cauda, I am not sure anyone has answered your question as I understand it. Correct me if I am wrong but I see your question as motivated by wondering how attitudes on the environment and the use of resources in the US compare with attitudes in Sweden and Europe.

I don't think they are even close. From many visits to Europe, mostly the UK, over recent years I think here we are way behind the curve on such issues. Compared with Europe it has only been in relatively recent years that garbage is separated by genuine waste and plastic and paper recyclables. That appears to be our token response to simple thing like the trash we generate. I know in the UK they also have a wet kitchen waste separation and there is a charge in stores for plastic bags to encourage use of reusable shopping bags.

Here, I think we generally still live with a resources are meant to be used kind of attitude, oblivious to the idea someone put forward that it would take five planet worlds like this one for everyone to live and consume at the levels we do.

I think that Americans generally are not convinced there is any problem and that if there is, someone will come along and solve it before we have to give up our thirst for consumption.

> I think that Americans generally
> are not convinced there is any
> problem and that if there is,
> someone will come along and solve
> it before we have to give up our
> thirst for consumption.


I think you're much kinder to Americans in general than we deserve. I don't perceive it as an issue of Americans not being convinced. I see it as an issue of Americans simply not caring...except for me and Ed Begley, Jr.

Kentish is a very generous man.

"A society grows great when old men plant trees."

I took the liberty to search it. It's apparently an ancient Greek proverb. Excellent contribution to the thread.

It goes like this ...

“A society grows great when old men plant trees in whose shade they will never sit.”

At age 73, I relate to that very powerfully. As I've posted elsewhere, I've invested in a rural property with my son, and am having a delightful time bestowing my experience & resources with (for) him.

There's an acre of blueberries that haven't been cultivated in about 10 years, so this spring we start pruning and developing them. Since no chemicals have been applied in that time, I'm looking into organic certification.

A little strange for a conservative old curmudgeon, don't you think?

I've lost track of the number of tiny trees I've planted that I purchased from the state windbreak program. I will never see their shade.