My nephew who lives with me really needs help. But, he was sent to AA as a kid (he's an adult now), and he didn't like it. He's an atheist. Are there other groups that you know of, that are not God-centered that anyone can recommend?

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/where-science-meets-the-steps/201412/aa-without-the-god

“Secular Options Grow

In response, a number of non-12-Step groups have sprung up that offer a secular approach to recovery help—groups such as Secular Organizations for Sobriety and LifeRing. Among the most popular is SMART Recovery (Self-Management and Recovery Training), which emphasizes the science behind addiction and encourages self-reliance and empowerment.

It has also led to the creation of agnostic groups under the umbrella of AA that adapt the meeting style and the 12-Steps wording as they feel best suits their philosophy. There are now secular AA groups in virtually every major city in the nation, according to AA Agnostica, a website created by a group of secular AA members and designed to be a helping hand for those put off by the religious content of some AA meetings.“

Thank you SC. I had found that one, but I was also looking for "personal" recommendations. Do you have experience with any of these?

No, but there are secular AA Chapters in every major city, like the article says.
I also liked this part,”The conflicting mindsets have created tension over the years, a tension that AA has sought to address by encouraging a personal definition of God as any higher power the person may choose. It could be, for example, nature, love, or the AA group as a whole (in the latter case, as the explanation goes, G.O.D. becomes Group Of Drunks). Even so, when the nonreligious find themselves encouraged to follow steps such as “Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out” (italics in the original), the process rings hollow.

Broadening the concept of higher power brings more people under the tent poles, but it doesn’t answer the question of whether this belief is essential to the recovery process.”

I personally define ‘god’ as ‘nature’, which is the same way Einstein, Sagan, Hawking and Kaku use the word, to mean, the god of harmony, balance, beauty and resonance.

I used Rational Recovery. (Raional.org) read the book and stopped drinking.

14 years ago and never drank again.

Gheco Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I used Rational Recovery. (Raional.org) read the
> book and stopped drinking.
>
> 14 years ago and never drank again.


Typo: (Rational.org)

Is there anything sadder, in a situation where no illness nor injury is involved, than Masturbators Anonymous, except it is NOT anonymous cuz your bishop signed you up!

He was also an iron worker and thought the young guys at AA were wimps.

So she found him an older AA group and it all worked out.

I have friends in AA and my biggest surprise was the low rate of success.

Weight Watchers, Jenny Craig, Overeaters Anonymous, Alcoholics Anonymous...none of them like to release their data, if they keep any.

Most of them are doing about a 95% fail rate for long term recovery.

Humans. What ya gonna do?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/23/2021 04:54PM by Dorothy.

Heidi, encourage your nephew to attend a variety of AA meetings with an open mind. Depending upon the size of the city or town he lives in, there may be affinity groups he'll be comfortable in: Male only, gay, young adults, professional; open speaker meetings, book discussion, small, large, etc. etc.

I encourage him to put the spirituality issue aside and just listen to people's stories, how they got involved in the program, and what parts of the program they use to get and stay sober. For one, it may be close relationship with (a) sponsor(s). Another, it's the literature. Still another, high-frequency meetings. And for others--yes--their Higher Power.

Perhaps he's using the spirituality issue as an avoidance? As mentioned above, many people define "G.O.D. as 'Group of Drunks.'" He's free to go out and do more "field research," but there's an old saying, "Try 90 meetings in 90 days. If you're not satisfied, your misery will be refunded in full--with interest."

I suggest your nephew "use what works for him, and discard the rest." That will include the Higher Power for now, but at sometime in the future, who knows? He may reassess. I was a mix of atheism, agnosticism, and mere irreligiosity when I started. Double-digit years later, I do have a spiritual life.

There are studies pro- and con-, but the fact is, AA works for a multitude of people, and can work for him.

Lastly, allow me to recommend a crackerjack "drunkalogue" book (call it a testimony), "Cocked And Loaded" (Richard Broom). It starts with the author waking up, hung over, and getting a phone call--he killed a man the night before in a total black out, and can't remember a thing! 260 pages, a great read.

My father has a similar problem with AA because he's an atheist, but it hasn't stopped him continuing to go, soberly, to AA meetings for the last 45 years. The important thing is giving up drinking, not finding a match for one's philosophical positions...

https://www.aa.org/assets/en_US/en_bigbook_appendiceiv.pdf

In the AA "Big Book," there is a chapter "to the agnostic," titles "We Agnostics."

I'll underscore what "not drunk today" said that AA works for a multitude of people and can work for him.

And seriously, Heidi, with your nephew living with you, I strongly recommend the Al-Anon family groups. I attended those for years in addition to AA, and honestly, it saved my parents' marriage and gave them support in dealing with my brother's "active alcoholism" which still bedevils him today.

(typo correct)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/23/2021 04:33PM by SL Cabbie.

I have a relative who had a serious drinking problem his whole adult life. My relatives and I got training from professionals, on how to do an "Intervention". It really does take training to execute the process correctly.

In the training you learn several critical techniques. Each person learns how to tell their story correctly. Instead of saying something like "...your continual drinking causes us a lot of pain", you say something like "on (date), you did (exactly what they did), and it made me feel like (exactly how it made you feel)". The idea is to not be emotional when telling your story, but to remind them what they did and then to express how that specific action brought you pain because you love them.

This process might seem cruel, but it works. Set up the situation so that when they walk in to a room, everyone they love is all there. Yes, it's like an ambush. If you set this up correctly with the help of trained professionals (who do not actually take part in the event), this person won't walk away from all of these people who they know loves them. Let them know up-front then, why everyone is there. You go around the room, each person taking a turn at recounting several instances of how this person did something, when they did it, and how it made you feel. One such story might be for example: "Last January, you came to Junior's birthday party very intoxicated. Everyone there could tell that you were intoxicated. I felt very humiliated for you and for myself".

At the end of this meeting, your loved one will feel immense grief over what they done and how they have caused pain to everyone who loves them. It'll be easy to get a commitment from them to stop drinking. We did this with my relative over fourty years ago and he hasn't had a drink of alcahol since.

Unlike a church court, there is no withdrawal nor threat of withdrawal of anything. Everyone re-affirms their love and commitment to continue loving the person. They ask for a change of behavior without any threats nor conditions nor consequences. Then the drinker knows that their behavior is not private and that they are hurting those who love them the most. They then have the choice of deciding to continuing to hurt everyone who loves them or to stop drinking.

But don't do this without professional counseling first. There are many things that can and will likely go wrong if you approach this process without professional help. If you do the process correctly, the worst that might happen is that maybe it won't work. We had an in-patient facility all lined-up before we did the intervention for him. But it was his choice to admit himself to the treatment program and a few weeks in the facility. As I said, he hasn't had a drink of alcahol since. He chose to keep a bottle of wine in his refrigerator for several years afterward. When we would visit him, he would show us that same bottle and point out how it had not been opened. It was also obvious by how his life changed and how he interacted with everyone that his drinking days were over.



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 04/23/2021 10:42AM by azsteve.

Try Smart Recovery: https://www.smartrecovery.org/

AA works for me, but I know others who are agnostic/atheist who prefer this program.

A non-believer alkie (who hasn't managed to get sober) took me to a few "SMART" meetings. I was less than impressed. First, the co-leaders seemed to dominate discussion. Second, quite a few people who spoke up referenced their participation in regular AA meetings. Third, I sensed that discussion tilted towards dealing with relationships and emotional issues as opposed to getting and staying sober.

For me, this is a horse-and-cart issue. I acknowledge that emotional/relationship matters are important, but I think should be secondary to sobriety. Put another way, the difference is "I drink because of these (various) problems" vs. "I have these (various) problems because I drink." Focusing on the former allows people to cast at least some blame on others, instead of one's alcoholic self. We boozers are good at that.

The steps provide a well-trod road for dealing with personal and relationship issues. Recovering people will have their individual experiences, successes, and setbacks, but they work for countless people.

Encourage your nephew to attend. Consider setting standards, such as five meetings a week if he wants to live under your roof. Nor does he have to be sober to attend--I've smelled booze on plenty of people's breath at meeting.

"Bring the --the mind will follow."

Oops!

I like PP


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Positive People

I don't like anything between AA & PP

Thanks everyone for your thoughts. I will definitely look into everything and think about this before making my move.

You guys are great!