http://ldschurchgrowth.blogspot.com/2021/05/the-collapse-of-church-in-armenia.html

There used to be a stake in Armenia, that was shut down about 5 years ago. Until recently, there were two districts and 11 branches. Now there are no districts and 4 branches.

Sounds like something seriously unravelled in local leadership there, plus members moving out of the country. My personal belief is that a major reason people in third world countries join organizations like LDS Inc is that they hope they will be able to parlay that into a chance to leave the country.

In any case, things are not well in that particular part of Zion. the comments are interesting - a blend of TBM boosterism and "c'mon people, get a clue" pessimism.

One poster opined that supporting vaccination and masking was going to cost them a lot of heartland members. I'm guessing said poster disagrees with The Prophet.

One of the biggest 'crimes' that ChurchCo does these days is taking $ away from (developing) countries / societies / individuals to go to the U.S.A.

Under the guise that their residents will improve their standard of living by paying tithing? Beyond Reprehensible, it's outlandish.

their governments should outright prohibit that.

Does that mean Russ will soon announce a new temple in Armenia to add to his legacy and to fool TBMs that the work is hastening; and the pebble, I mean stone, is rolling forth?

Announcing is easy. Building is harder. Getting people into the building is becoming well nigh impossible.

Brother Of Jerry Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> One poster opined that supporting vaccination and
> masking was going to cost them a lot of heartland
> members. I'm guessing said poster disagrees with
> The Prophet.

No, he just follows that other prophet.

Plus I fail to see how adhering to Mormonism would make the slightest difference to the current situation in Armenia, and I suspect a lot of Armenians feel the same way.

To me, the most interesting statement in your link is this:

"Returned missionaries have indicated that the mishandling of Church finances and local leadership development problems warranted the stake being discontinued."

Sounds like the local leaders were embezzling church funds. The reulting excommunications would cause "local leadership development problems" for sure.

But what if ghawd told them to do it?

Joe Smith reportedly said that some revelations are of God; some revelations are of men; and some revelations are of the devil.

That would have to be a revelation from the devil (or man) because nothing is more important to Mormogod than money.

Wow...

I lived in Armenia from 1995-97 when I was a Peace Corps Volunteer. There was a Mormon couple in my group-- both husband and wife were returned missionaries. I remember the church was just getting cranked up in Armenia when I lived there.

It doesn't surprise me that the LDS church wouldn't succeed there. Everybody smokes and drinks, and it's way too hot for the underwear in the summer.

I think one of the comments at least hinted that organized crime had gotten involved in local leadership. That got me to thinking that a tv series based on a crime family deciding to take over stake leadership in some European country would make a terrific storyline.

Crime boss decides it would be the perfect cover for meeting and coordinating crime activities. He joins, fakes his way up to being appointed stake president, then gets his underlings appointed as bishops and their councilors.

The church and the crime family are both so hierarchical and patriarchal that hardly anybody notices the infiltration. Those that sense something wrong would be a good subplot.


I think Sweden would be a good place to write and film such a project. :)

The organized crime bit doesn't surprise me, either. I remember there was a "mafia" in Armenia when I lived there, and a lot of the restaurants were owned by its members.

I remember there was a lot of corruption involving law enforcement, too. People paying off cops, for instance.

The witness protection program is the only reason you can get decent pizza in Arizona.

babyloncansuckit Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The witness protection program is the only reason
> you can get decent pizza in Arizona.

I would think if that were true, and known, that it would defeat the effectiveness of the witness protection program.

"My personal belief is that a major reason people in third world countries join organizations like LDS Inc is that they hope they will be able to parlay that into a chance to leave the country."

I've always said the same thing.

When I was a missionary in Oz in the 80’s everybody thought we were CIA Agents, because nobody in Oz walks around in black suits with white shirt and tie, unless you are An undertaker or CIA agent (or MORmON missionary).

I rolled through Armenia on my bicycle in 2019. Lovely place. One of the first Christian nations. The main church building was originally built in 310 a.d., and billed itself as being the worlds first church building. (Not true, but certainly close).

I can see how LDS, Inc would have a difficult time getting Armenians to convert for the theology. As the Armenian Church (theology, organization and buildings) was well established before the 325 a.d. Council of Niceia, which is (IIRC) the standard time marker for when the church organization as established by the followers of Jesus himself was corrupted.

However, joining LDS, Inc as a ticket to access to Western Europe or the US could be a pretty easy sell.

I guess I’m surprised that this pattern hasn’t happened more often! Or, it probably has, but only affects one portion of a country, so it can be hidden. In Armenia’s case, the country is so small that the loss of a small number of leaders could take the whole organization down.

Interesting info, thanks for sharing.

RG

Here’s a click-bait link with 10 churches in Armenia. You can see that LDS, Inc. will have a tough time competing with these 1000+ year old churches.
https://sunriseodyssey.com/10-most-beautiful-churches-in-armenia-that-you-must-visit



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 06/01/2021 01:54PM by reinventinggrace.

One of my favorite memories was visiting Gerhard, a monastery built into a mountain. They have a “singing room”. I went in there and sang and someone thought the Armenians had piped in music.

I also loved visiting where Gregory the Illuminator was imprisoned for 12 years. There was just a pinprick of light in the cell.

I hope to go back sometime soon and see my old friends. I am drinking Armenian wine as I write this and will probably have some Armenian brandy as a nightcap.

I went to school with a significant number of ethnically Armenian kids. I could never see that community going for Mormonism. They were a tight-knit community with their own long-standing traditions. No need for some upstart church.

My anti-virus program kicked in when I clicked on the link.
Evidently the site has been hacked.

Totally OT, but I just remembered going to Fresno State with tons of Armenians and one of them (now a successful actress) said her father was an atheist and her mother was Catholic; I asked "What are you?" and she said "Episcopalian." I said "Well, that's makes sense."

Sorry, Episcopalian joke. There aren't many jokes about them.

The Mormon church in Greece is even worse. The church has had a mission there since 1987, and after just four branches, has never achieved any growth; I think, in fact, that they are now down to only 3 branches, one of them having a large American and other foreign presence. 34 years of hard graft by the missionaries, and no appreciable growth. The church ignored the fact that the Greek culture is interwoven with their version of Christian Orthodoxy. Asking someone to leave Greek Orthodoxy is tantamount to asking them to throw out their Greek culture. Orthodoxy as been around practically since the beginning of Christianity itself. Some silly and upstart American cult comes along, thinking they can pry the Greeks away from their culture... Ain't gonna happen.

In my opinion, the upstart cult of Jehovah's Witnesses is even worse than Mormons, but I still find it ironic that it is MUCH more successful in Greece and elsewhere.

JWs have 355 congregations in Greece, compared to the 3 or 4 LDS branches...

https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/worldwide/GR/

And the Mormon cult still has the nerve to claim that they are the "fastest-growing religion". Delusion and dishonesty at its best.