https://books.google.com/books?id=66G6DwAAQBAJ&pg=PT4&source=gb_mobile_entity&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&gboemv=1

The Author of Hidden Brain - book, podcast, NPR radio show, has a new book out called, “Useful Delusions” that asks this question in the OP.

He is fascinated by the parts of our brains “The Hidden Brain” responsible for self deception, that prevent us from seeing reality as it exists.

He writes about a religious cult that defrauded a lot of people and as he read about these victims, they all had a similar reaction, that this fraudulent cult that just defrauded them out of their life savings, relationships, etc, was beneficial to them in one way or another, it prevented some from suicides, some from drug addiction, some from all kinds of bad outcomes.

So he asked this question, “Are delusions sometimes useful?”

I feel useful, so the answer is obviously, yes!

Sometimes, yeah--delusions can be useful.

What immediately comes to mind is all the stories I have learned of throughout my life where someone was up for a role in a motion picture (or, sometimes, a TV series), in which a certain skill was necessary. If you [the performer] are asked if you are skilled in horseback riding or whatever, the answer is always "Yes, of course!"...and then, once the meeting is over, you call whoever you know, who can connect you with a teacher, who can very quickly get you to a level of skill where it will look like you are an expert. As you are speed-acquiring the required skill, you are supposed to constantly repeat to yourself (akin to a Catholic kind of prayer mantra), "I can do this! I was BORN to do this! I am the exactly right person for this job!" [or whatever].

[ETA: Many people in the industry have unhealthy, or unhinged, delusions of various kinds--and although this is commonly the case for those in front of the camera, it can also affect many behind the camera people as well. Sometimes those delusions may provide that person with the chutzpah to become recognized in some way (Academy Awards, as cover subjects for magazines, their recordings sell in the millions, etc.), but these kinds of delusions can often have very little to do with actual reality, despite the fact that many of these actually deluded celebrities are living in a nowhereland of what I, personally, consider insanity. (Siblings and other relatives or hangers-on can frequently be just as deluded as well--sometimes to the point of absurdity.)

Which is to say: Delusion can, at least in certain situations, be a tool to achieve certain ends, but it can operate in either a positive, or in a negative, way.]

Everyone in the industry knows that this is how jobs are sometimes won, and everyone also knows that--if you are unable to deliver on your implied promise (meaning: your attempt to delude yourself did not succeed)--you may "never work in this town again" because many careers have also ENDED at this point.

The entertainment industry was, and is, essentially built on the very conscious illusions and delusions of those who are part of the industry. (When the delusions are UNconscious, that's where the problems begin--not only regarding someone's performances and credits, but regarding life itself.)



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 06/14/2021 07:36PM by Tevai.

This brings to mind Ronald Reagan and a later celebrity, Donald Trump. We all had to live with their delusions. Not necessarily a good thing.

If the chimp in “Bedtime for Bonzo” had a little more strength, history may have turned out differently.

"What immediately comes to mind is all the stories I have learned of throughout my life where someone was up for a role in a motion picture (or, sometimes, a TV series), in which a certain skill was necessary. If you [the performer] are asked if you are skilled in horseback riding or whatever, the answer is always "Yes, of course!"...and then, once the meeting is over, you call whoever you know, who can connect you with a teacher, who can very quickly get you to a level of skill where it will look like you are an expert. As you are speed-acquiring the required skill, you are supposed to constantly repeat to yourself (akin to a Catholic kind of prayer mantra), "I can do this! I was BORN to do this! I am the exactly right person for this job!" [or whatever]."

RESPONSE: This reminded me of something I read recently about Debbie Reynolds who (apparently) had no dancing experience when she was cast in Singin in the Rain with dancing partners Gene Kelly and Donald O'Conner--both expert tappers. I don't know if that is true or not, or whether any deception was involved, but if you go back and watch the "Good Mornin" dance routine you will be amazed; and appreciate her level of achievement with minimal experience. I suppose you don't survive in the entertainment industry without an inflated view of what you can do if given the chance. Maybe that is a lesson for all of us.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yu6--WBPBHo

For those of us old folks that are still young at heart!

G. Salviati Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> RESPONSE: This reminded me of something I read
> recently about Debbie Reynolds who (apparently)
> had no dancing experience when she was cast in
> Singin in the Rain with dancing partners Gene
> Kelly and Donald O'Conner--both expert tappers. I
> don't know if that is true or not, or whether any
> deception was involved, but if you go back and
> watch the "Good Mornin" dance routine you will be
> amazed; and appreciate her level of achievement
> with minimal experience. I suppose you don't
> survive in the entertainment industry without an
> inflated view of what you can do if given the
> chance. Maybe that is a lesson for all of us.

Debbie Reynolds was raised in Burbank, in the eastern San Fernando Valley, within a metaphorical baseball's throw of several motion picture/television studios, which means she is a Valley Girl, so: kind of like a neighbor you've never met, but are very much aware of, to me. (In the Valley, no matter where you grow up, the chances are extremely high that you go to school with performers who individually hold Guild cards, or with kids whose parents--often both Mom and Dad--are both employed by the studios in all capacities, from producer (at the top of the hierarchy) to truck caterer (sort of at the bottom of the hierarchy, at least at the beginning when you're chopping lettuce for tacos).

Almost the entire Valley (population: 1,540,948) is involved in the entertainment industry in SOME way (either directly, or by relationship of some kind with someone else), because if your next-door neighbor is NOT so involved, their cousin who lives in Canoga Park (western Valley) usually IS.

We all went to the same schools, our school debate teams and athletic teams competed with each other (for me in particular: Sally Field at Birmingham, and Ritchie Valens at San Fernando, etc.), and most everyone who lives here is only a very few people removed from all of the entertainment industry personnel who live throughout the entire Valley.

From a sociological standpoint, it is a fascinating phenomenon, and one I began to realize existed when I was at Sutter Junior High School. (P.S. There are many people in the industry, former Valley Kids all, whose "careers" effectively began as babysitters to "name" celebrities who lived down the hill or down the street, and I've heard of this same thing happening with kids who did lawn and tree maintenance too.)

If a given kid is open to what is going on around them (some are; many are not), you can--or you DO--learn a WHOLE LOT about how the entertainment industry operates, just by growing up here. I went to junior high with twin sisters who were featured vocalists every Friday night on a variety TV show, etc. If you are employed to babysit in the "right" homes, there are scripts on the coffee table in the living room and on the dining room table...and the BEST thing is: If you ask questions (like you leaf through a script and you can't understand some of the words used or why the script is formatted in such a strange way), those questions will be usually be taken seriously by an industry adult and will be answered seriously.

Certainly from the perspective of the kids, it is a kind of a common culture that we are all a part of (whether we have any personal, familial, connection to it or not), and it frequently doesn't have much (or possibly anything!) to do with the socio-economic level of your blood family at all, because the kids growing up are mostly all an integral part of this common culture as they mature, year-by-year.

If they decide they want, or might want in the future, to enter into the industry, that kind of entrance is usually readily available--along with the learned wisdom and experience of those who have gone before and are often still active at that moment.

If you ["the kid"] show any real interest, your interest will be taken seriously, and your industry education will begin immediately...and you just might start receiving invitations to openings, or press events, or whatever. This happened to me.

[I babysat for a middle-aged couple who had their own public relations (p.r.) firm, and I asked questions, and I received a surprisingly good education in practical public relations along with my paycheck--knowledge which actually became the basis of me, several years later, writing one-third of three different magazines every month for a publishing company. Keep in mind that the job I was hired to do was change diapers and bottle-feed their newly born infant son. As I remember, I was paid a dollar an hour for that job, but later, THAT job allowed me to get the job which then established me as an industry pro.]

This is a lot of musing on things I've been thinking about, in one way or another, since I was in elementary school, because throughout my life I have found this phenomenon incredibly interesting.

I hope someone finds these musings of value.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 06/16/2021 06:22PM by Tevai.

As a kid who grew up in The Valley-the decidedly less affluent east valley, I really didn’t think too much about who was affiliated with “show biz” back then.

But, your post got me to think back and I realized that in spite of my neighborhood, I actually knew a lot of kids and even some parents of kids in the industry. I’m a bit surprised when I list them mentally just how many there are (were).

I never put much importance to their connections, they were just friends and classmates at the time.

I’ve mentioned previously, the show biz family known as the Osmonds were also fellow ward members and neighbors.

csuprovograd Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As a kid who grew up in The Valley-the decidedly
> less affluent east valley, I really didn’t think
> too much about who was affiliated with “show
> biz” back then.
>
> But, your post got me to think back and I realized
> that in spite of my neighborhood, I actually knew
> a lot of kids and even some parents of kids in the
> industry. I’m a bit surprised when I list them
> mentally just how many there are (were).
>
> I never put much importance to their connections,
> they were just friends and classmates at the
> time.

Yes! That's it! Growing up in the Valley, the industry is kind of like air--it is always around you in some way. [For example: for the last week, and continuing to definitely today, there is a TV show filming on the ground floor at Northridge Mall, so you have to work your way around the "Crew Parking" (etc.) signs to get to where you want to park...and a couple of weeks ago, there was a separate film location, at a house on Lassen, which lasted several days (and kind of bollixed-up the street lanes).]

Tip to visitors: If you are driving around the Valley, and you see an easily-visible sign attached to an upright like a power pole, which has a solid black arrow [and the sign itself can be turned around so the arrow now points in the OTHER direction], and it says something cryptic like: CAVE, or DOGS, or MOON ROCKS, both right side up, and also right side down...it is a directional sign to a filming location. In the Valley, and on any given [business mostly] day, there are probably at least a couple of dozen filming sites (both films and TV) which are actively filming.


> I’ve mentioned previously, the show biz family
> known as the Osmonds were also fellow ward members
> and neighbors.

The Osmonds lived in the Valley?

I had no idea!

Thank you, csuprovograd!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/16/2021 06:03PM by Tevai.

The Osmond’s house was near the easterly terminus of Nordhoff, just east of Woodman in Pacoima. They moved to Utah sometime in the mid to late sixties.

csuprovograd Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The Osmond’s house was near the easterly
> terminus of Nordhoff, just east of Woodman in
> Pacoima. They moved to Utah sometime in the mid to
> late sixties.

Wow...for a few months I lived nearby, with a family in San Fernando (the city).

I was working for Capitol Records at that time, and San Fernando was way closer to Hollywood (where Capitol was) than where I had been living in the West Valley, which meant a MUCH shorter commute.

In addition, it was, for me, a much appreciated opportunity to try to get my Spanish up to where I was comfortable with it, but despite my aspirations, we all wound up speaking English almost all of the time anyway! ;)

It was a valued adventure, and I thank them (the Alvarado family) for that part of my life. I learned a great deal (even if what I learned was mostly in English!), and I continue to be grateful to them for giving me that unusual opportunity.

The Author of Hidden Brain - book, podcast, NPR radio show, has a new book out called, “Useful Delusions” that asks this question in the OP.

RESPONSE: There is no such thing as "the Hidden brain." Note: It is right there under the skull! Also, there is no such thing as "the ethical brain;" or "the moral brain" or "the believing brain," etc. etc. Brains are physical systems. They are associated with neural networks of neuron firings (all of which are physical), not ethics, morals, or beliefs, which are categories that apply to people, not brains. (See Bennett & Hacker, Philosophical Foundations of Neuroscience.)
_____________________________________

He is fascinated by the parts of our brains “The Hidden Brain” responsible for self deception, that prevent us from seeing reality as it exists.

RESPONSE: There are no modules ("parts") in the brain (or the mind for that matter) that are "designed" (by evolution) to create conscious deceptions for some "use" or benefit. (e.g. religious belief) That is not to say that we don't make mistakes in our conscious judgments and beliefs; some of which may be due to processing errors by the brain.
_____________________________________

He writes about a religious cult that defrauded a lot of people and as he read about these victims, they all had a similar reaction, that this fraudulent cult that just defrauded them out of their life savings, relationships, etc, was beneficial to them in one way or another, it prevented some from suicides, some from drug addiction, some from all kinds of bad outcomes.

RESPONSE: This is nothing more than the psychological recognition by a human being that sometimes good comes from bad. It has nothing to do with brains creating deceptions for some useful purpose.
_____________________________________

So he asked this question, “Are delusions sometimes useful?”

RESPONSE: Trivially, yes. But that does not make them conducive to some pseudo-psychological theory about some hidden part of the brain that is responsible for creating delusions that are useful.

P.S. If you think differently from the above explanation, you have been deluded! But, heh, maybe it was useful! :)

The problem is people experiencing delusional thinking do not know they are experiencing delusional thinking.

But Columbus, thinking he had discovered a new route to China, stumbled on the American continent and some people think THAT was useful.

Or if you are a true believer in the LDS church, and later decide otherwise, you may learn critical thinking, which may prove useful later in life.

Religion ain't the only con out there.

Is the world made of atoms, or is it made of language? Maybe Mormonism is basically a perversion of language.

It doesn’t extend to all religion. Delusion works through language for good or bad. In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God. Creation explained in one sentence even if it takes a lifetime to unpack.

Mormonism is bad for most people. Are there some it helps? Probably. That’s why the church attracts messed up people. The well need not a physician.

babyloncansuckit Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> In the
> beginning was the word, and the word was with God,
> and the word was God. Creation explained in one
> sentence even if it takes a lifetime to unpack.

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

I use affirmations, visualizations, etc. etc.. These things basically amount to me telling myself (my brain) I am much better than my talents in the past have shown. Not sure both are great examples but seem to get the point accross.

Are they useful??

1. I have placed in the top 10, on a psychic contest website with 2000 others, for 5 months straight (winning a small amount of money). I submit I am 'psychic' but no more 'psychic' than anyone else that exercises this ability regularly. Seems like the other 2000+ do exercise their skill but I am not sure how much. The vast majority seem to at least test their skill almost daily as part of the contests. I have been doing this over a year which is less than most in the contest.

2. I regularly compete in sports requiring running and hand eye coordination with people 20-30 years younger. I am slower but have an above average winning streak with those in the group of 10, I play with. I am the oldest.

3. I also use these techniques in many other areas but it is difficult to quantify the results.

This kind of thinking is 'commonly' taught to student athletes in high school and in college. I doubt any world class athlete has not be totally exposed to these 'delusional thinking' techniques.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/17/2021 05:39PM by spiritist.