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Posted by: Brother Of Jerry ( )
Date: June 16, 2021 02:27AM

And it’s only the middle of the month, and it broke the record by two degrees.

It tied the hottest temp ever recorded for any date in SLC.

Somebody’s not fasting and praying hard enough. :-/

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Posted by: Tevai ( )
Date: June 16, 2021 02:49AM

Brother Of Jerry Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And it’s only the middle of the month, and it
> broke the record by two degrees.
>
> It tied the hottest temp ever recorded for any
> date in SLC.
>
> Somebody’s not fasting and praying hard enough.
> :-/

:D

I am sorry for everyone affected. Heat can be tough.

We (northwestern San Fernando Valley) got to 108 today, which actually felt a whole lot hotter than 108.

When I was growing up, I spent many of those years traveling all around the desert areas of California and Nevada with my aunt, in her Jeep, looking for uranium. Back then, it often got into the 120s in the places we went to (like Baker), and I thought the 120s were just fine.

No more.

I guess this means I will never be a uranium prospector on my own.

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Posted by: babyloncansuckit ( )
Date: June 16, 2021 03:00AM

Church’s next construction project: Huge water park at Temple Square. The wave pool doubles as a baptismal font. Try not to gawk at the sister missionaries when they’re sopping wet.

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Posted by: slskipper ( )
Date: June 16, 2021 08:33AM

The chickens are coming home to roost. Mormons have always been hostile to the environmental movement, with some of that hostility coming from the pulpit as they are warned against falling for the enticements of The World which, they were told, is a distraction from the true purpose in life which is to warn people about the impending wrath of God. So they bought their SUVs to carry their huge families and, sadly, to show off their disdain for social consensus. They fought against any attempts to limit the ability of corporations to spew their wastes into our soil and water and air because that is socialism and socialism is a cover for the forces of Satan against the Armies of God. And so on.

Now they are seeing the consequences of their decisions. The world is getting hotter and drier and God somehow fails to concur that the faithful should be rewarded for their dedication. As the environment falls to pieces, may it be that global warming will be the thing that drives the final nail in the coffin of religious devotion?

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: June 16, 2021 10:59AM

That's HOT! I hope that you get some cooling rain soon.

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Posted by: decultified ( )
Date: June 16, 2021 11:02AM

Yeah, well, Emeritus GA and Q12 reject Tad Callister thinks that "environmental emergency" is Satan's euphemism for "a zero-growth population agenda."

The answer, of course, is "a return to family and moral values" = more babies in church! Back to the 1950s with all of you! That will solve our so-called environmental emergencies!

Thank you, Q12 reject (and Bill Barr fan) Tad Callister! It must hurt to see your life dream swatted down like a fly, but few deserve that fate more than you do.

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Posted by: Brother Of Jerry ( )
Date: June 16, 2021 01:30PM

What I find distressing is that is is just mid-June. The temps are usually not really hot until late June, and late July is when the peak temperatures hit, right around Pioneer Day.

So we have tied the all time record, which has only been hit twice before, and both of those times were in July. The next 7 days are looking to be near 100, and June only has another week after that. We will likely have the hottest June ever this month.

Not only that, but a fair number of the daily records only date back to the 20-teens, less than a decade old.

I believe both Salt Lake marinas are closed. Lake levels are too low. In the 1980s the lake was threatening to submerge parts of I-80 near Tooele. Boy, are those days gone.

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Posted by: Free Man ( )
Date: June 17, 2021 12:50AM

"As the environment falls to pieces, may it be that global warming will be the thing that drives the final nail in the coffin of religious devotion?"

And yet you use computers and electricity which take burning of fossil fuels to produce and transport, leading to certain death.

While the earth is warming generally (as it has many times before), I find it amusing to see any hot day used as proof of global warming.

Then when it is extremely cold, crickets.

Reminds me of church - when you pray and something good happens, absolute proof of god's power, and if something bad happens, you just don't mention it.

Have we already forgotten Texas in February? At one point the second coldest week ever.

https://www.inquirer.com/weather/texas-cold-record-power-outages-20210220.html

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Posted by: Free Man ( )
Date: June 17, 2021 01:27AM

I forgot to mention that up here by Spokane, I had to cover garden plants several times in June because of frost. The latest was June 7, when frost nipped some corn too big to cover.

That is the latest frost I've seen since coming here 25 years ago - definite proof of global cooling!

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Posted by: Brother Of Jerry ( )
Date: June 17, 2021 03:30PM

It's interesting seeing someone take so much pride in being on the wrong side of history on, um, pretty much everything. Ya know, even the anti-intellectual science deniers are coming around to admitting that something is happening with the climate, and they are arguing about what we should do about it. That's a useful political argument. Denying climate change is increasingly looking as ridiculous as denying that cigarettes cause lung cancer. You are out on an increasingly lonely limb.

I didn't say anything about climate change in the thread. Neither did anyone else, though slskipper made general comments about the effects of climate change, But now that you brought it up, yes, the expected results of climate change will be more frequent and more intense heat waves, among other things. Utah and most of the southwest are in "exceptional" drought, the most severe rating. We just had the hottest day (3 way tie) in 50,000 days of temperature records, over a month early from when the hottest weather usually strikes.

Both climate and weather are a lot like baseball, in that they are all games of statistics. One hot day doesn't prove the climate is heating up. Nor does one hot month or one hot year.

On the other hand, one or even a few cooler years don't prove it is not happening either.

One of the most glaring examples of deliberate dishonesty was the claim that "there has been no global warming since 1998." Why 1998? Because there was a spectacular climb in temperature from 1996 to 1998. '98 was an el nino year, and apparently other conditions coincided to make 1998 a particularly hot year.

The net result was that the next few years after 1998 were cooler than 1998. The average temperature was still increasing, if you did a 5 year running average to flatten out spikes, like 1998, but yes, 1999 and 2000 were significantly cooler than 1998, so climate deniers started claiming global warming had stopped.

They or course neglected to point out that the climb in temperature from 1996 to 1998 was the steepest climb on record.

The deniers kept up this ridiculous claim that warming had stopped for about ten years, until it because so clear that it had not stopped, that they were embarrassed to make the claim, In point of fact, 19 of the 20 hottest years on record have all happened in the 21st century, and it is only 2021. If you go back and include 1998, then 20 of the 20 hottest years have happened since 1998. 1999 and 2000 are the only years that didn't make the list, and they would be included in the top 25 hottest years.

Here's the graph. You can see 1998 sticking way up by itself.
https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/sotc/global/202013


>And yet you use computers and electricity which take burning of fossil fuels to produce and transport, leading to certain death.

I had to look up what my computer burns per hour: 71W when idle, 260W when all CPUs and all GPUs are fired up. Just reading text on the internet or typing like what I am doing now is basically idle.

I am on a screen 10 hours a day. That's a lot. I have all Apple products, and my phone gives me a report every Sunday of my total usage on all screens (except tv) for the week, and it is very consistently ten hours. Yeah, I don't have a life, but let's see how much electricity that is.

The hourly wattage burn for my tablet is quite small, ditto the phone. The computer is probably in the range of 100W per hour on average. Let's for ease of calculation assume that all my devices average 100W for 10 hours a day. That's one kWH per day, and I pay $0.10 per kWH. Whoop-de-doo. My computers cost me ten cents a day.

My car burns about ten cents worth of gas to drive a half mile away from home and back. I don't even drive for half mile trips unless I need to pick up something heavy. It's easier to walk that far than to deal with parking.

Plus some of my electricity is generated from renewables and that is likely to increase rapidly in coming years. None of my gasoline is, unless you count whatever ethanol is in it, which I wouldn't bother to count.

>While the earth is warming generally (as it has many times before), I find it amusing to see any hot day used as proof of global warming.

>Then when it is extremely cold, crickets.

Again, I didn't claim the recent hot day was proof of global warming.

Yes, the earth has warmed and cooled over time. This is natural. Houses are warmer and cooler at different times of the year. While that is true, it in no way proves that your house is not on fire. Good grief.

The global CO2 concentration has bounced between 170 and 270 ppm for the last 800K years of so. We know this from glacial ice cores, where we can directly sample trapped air, so those are "hard" numbers (i.e. we are highly confident that they are accurate). The low range corresponds to glacial periods, the high range corresponds to interglacial periods. The cycle time from high to low and back again has been on the order of 100,000 years.

OK. The change from low (170) to high (270) took several thousand years, and the global CO2 level went up about 1 ppm every 50 to 100 years, very roughly. Some changes were slower, some were faster. Right now we are going up 1 ppm every 8 months or so, on average. This is neck-snapping fast, compared to the geologic record.

BTW, the last time CO2 levels were above 400 ppm was about 3 million years ago, and the sea level was 78 feet higher than it is now. We have jacked the CO2 level up so fast that the sea level has not caught up yet, and it probably won't for centuries. We don't know that the sea levels will go up the same amount, but if they do, a lot of very large cities will have to be abandoned.

We do know that all of us reading this will never see CO2 below 400 ppm again. I fully expect we will hit 600 ppm in the next two centuries. The earth has actually had higher levels of CO2 than even 600 ppm in the geologic past. It was an ice-free planet during those periods. Sea levels 200 feet higher.

CO2 was discovered and isolated from air about 1800. It was found to be a heat-trapping gas almost immediately, in 1804 by Joseph Fourier. It was another half century before scientists first asked if our industrial production of CO2 might be enough to change the climate. It was yet another half century before the name "greenhouse gas" was attached to it, and another half century again (1960s) before a consensus started forming that yes, it was in fact changing the climate.

BTW, the denier claim that scientists during the 1970s were claiming that the world was in danger of cooling is nonsense. Yes, there were a couple (I think literally two) of magazine articles. And there may be some localized cooling. If fresh water streaming off Greenland blocks the Gulf Stream, Europe, which is at the same latitude as Canada and the northern US and Russia, will get considerably colder. That will be a local event, albeit a large local event.


As for Texas, yeah, they had a cold week. The more instructive take-away from Texas is that they decided that they were big enough, they could ignore the rest of the country, and blow off federal regulations on how to run a power grid. They would not connect to other state grids, so they could ignore the interstate regulations.

The net result was that their system failed in cold weather, though all the states north of them that had even colder weather were just fine.

Now, half a year later, Texas is telling people to set their thermostats to 78, because the TX power grid is again overwhelmed. Maybe those federal requirements weren't so stupid after all. Texas is swimming in oil and natural gas, and they can't keep their grid running?? That's rich.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: June 17, 2021 03:41PM

I hope you realize, BoJ, that Free Man isn't going to read that. He doesn't read; he doesn't learn.

Free Man would have us believe that the temperature in Texas in February is a better indicator of global temperatures than global temperatures are. You and your fancy science can't defeat that thinking.

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Posted by: Brother Of Jerry ( )
Date: June 17, 2021 04:04PM

I know. Free Man will spin in place and continue to screw himself into the ground.

I'm hoping some people less obsessed with "alternate facts" might benefit from my ramblings.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: June 17, 2021 04:08PM

I, for one, find your ramblings both fascinating and educational.

But you know that.

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Posted by: Soft Machine ( )
Date: June 22, 2021 09:45AM

But you know that too ;-)

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Posted by: dagny ( )
Date: June 22, 2021 12:43PM

I appreciated that information, BoJ.

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Posted by: Dr. No ( )
Date: June 22, 2021 11:49AM

I always always always always cherry-pick only anecdotes which support my preconceived beliefs.
You should try it. Life is much more comfortable that way.
No bumps. No worries! (No -- it really does work)

Now back to condemning acronyms I can't comprehend

;-)


[Best thing though is, even so, regardless, we all managed escape from TSCC]

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Posted by: macaRomney ( )
Date: June 22, 2021 08:51AM

I would have to say that I agree with free man, he is absolutely right, we simply don't have enough evidence to say that we understand what was happening 100,000 years ago. Scientists say that we know all this studying glacial ice cores? But none of us remember that far back or saw a glacial ice core from those days. And the earth was just a rock in space back then in outer space freezing temperatures, so they've most certainly built their whole story around a fairy tale. The climate doomsday cult logic is built on a house of cards ready to fall.

I'd say trust the real science, read what our ancestors wrote about the climate in history. I'd begin with the Anglo Saxon Chronicle started by Alfred. It clearly says that after and before the Conqueror came there were dry summers, it must have been hot, and there were wild fires all over England burning on dry weeds, many villages burned. The Mamouth history describes climate change in the 400's that many Britons had to go live on the continent because of the famines (heat related) and it opened up the opportunity for the Saxons to come.

I'm sure there are other reliable passages written by authors of other nations that explain our changing climate. There have been many dry and hot spells on this land, I'd say don't just believe what the intellectuals tell you, they have their agenda, which is to promote de-growth and Marxism, redistribute wealth and steal from the capitalists. I'd say for everyone reading this line on the subject of global warming do some actual reliable research of recorded history and thought on this subject of changing climates instead of trusting those with the degrowth agenda, that hate America and Western traditions and expansion.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: June 22, 2021 10:21AM

How can you possibly trust Alfred? In your own words, “none of us remember that far back or saw [Alfred] from those days.”

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Posted by: kentish ( )
Date: June 22, 2021 05:22PM

If you can't trust a Great who can you trust? Except perhaps when he is trusted with seeing that baking cakes do not burn.

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Posted by: ookami ( )
Date: June 22, 2021 10:24PM

macaRomney Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I would have to say that I agree with free man, he
> is absolutely right, we simply don't have enough
> evidence to say that we understand what was
> happening 100,000 years ago. Scientists say that
> we know all this studying glacial ice cores? But
> none of us remember that far back or saw a glacial
> ice core from those days.

Guy, the layers of ice build up over time. Think of rock layers or your laundry hamper (or laundry pile if you're a bachelor). Scientists then drill through the glaciers and study the layers of ice.

Stop me if you need me to explain it slower.

> And the earth was just a
> rock in space back then in outer space freezing
> temperatures, so they've most certainly built
> their whole story around a fairy tale. The climate
> doomsday cult logic is built on a house of cards
> ready to fall.

I think I speak for most readers of this forum when I ask, "What in the fuck are you talking about here?"

>
> I'd say trust the real science,

We do trust the real science; why do you think several posters chew you out when you post this crap?

> read what our
> ancestors wrote about the climate in history. I'd
> begin with the Anglo Saxon Chronicle started by
> Alfred. It clearly says that after and before the
> Conqueror came there were dry summers, it must
> have been hot, and there were wild fires all over
> England burning on dry weeds, many villages
> burned. The Mamouth history describes climate
> change in the 400's that many Britons had to go
> live on the continent because of the famines (heat
> related) and it opened up the opportunity for the
> Saxons to come.

And this supports your claim that climate change is bogus, how?

>
> I'm sure there are other reliable passages written
> by authors of other nations that explain our
> changing climate.

There are; they're why scientists study climate change.

> There have been many dry and hot
> spells on this land, I'd say don't just believe
> what the intellectuals tell you, they have their
> agenda, which is to promote de-growth and Marxism,
> redistribute wealth and steal from the
> capitalists.

Guy, this thread is about SLC experiencing a new high temperature in June, not "Try to make Red Scare propaganda relevant again."

> I'd say for everyone reading this
> line on the subject of global warming do some
> actual reliable research of recorded history and
> thought on this subject of changing climates

I wish you could take your own advice.

> instead of trusting those with the degrowth
> agenda, that hate America and Western traditions
> and expansion.

What does this gibberish have to do with climate change? Unless. . .
SHUT DOWN ALL SCHOOLS! OUTLAW LITERACY! THOSE ANTI-'MURICAN INTE-, INTE-, BOOK-LEARNING TYPES CAN'T CORRUPT US IF WE'RE ALL TOO STUPID TO FALL FOR IT! /s

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: June 23, 2021 03:05AM

macaRooney's inability to recognize when he's interacting with someone more intelligent than he is astounding. It's as if ignorance is his Manifest Destiny.

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Posted by: ookami ( )
Date: June 23, 2021 10:29AM

To add insult to injury-- I have a BA in English.

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Posted by: daverichards1 ( )
Date: June 17, 2021 03:40PM

Some parts of the world have some colder winter days but most of the world is getting hotter. So are those colder winter days stopping the melting of the ice caps, sea level rise and hurricanes?

The world is getting hotter. Every year. The thing is that you can be an ostrich and hide your head in the sand. Drive your SUV, have 8 kids (even if you can't afford to) because that's what the Lord wants you to do.

He said to Adam and Eve to take care of the Earth. I guess their descendants forget that part of the story.....

Over the past 11 years my Summer A/C bills have gone up (and not just due to a rate increase but REALLY gone up) OK we had a couple of really cold days in February 6 out of those 10 years.

There's weather and then there's climate.

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Posted by: L.A. Exmo ( )
Date: June 17, 2021 01:47PM

Cloudy & somewhat cool at the moment in the San Fernando Valley. Relatively humid too; just had a slight monsoonal drizzle. Nothing major, but welcome nonetheless.

So THANK YOU for your prayers for rain, all you righteous and holy Utahns, from the hedonistic, debauched epicenter of U.S. porn production. Your god was moved by your fervent beseeches and chose to send His relief… to us. LOL.

Oh well, back to the public orgies. </s>

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Posted by: azsteve ( )
Date: June 22, 2021 03:49AM

It peaked at 118 degrees a few days ago here in Phoenix Arizona. But I've seen 123 degrees here before. Above 120 degrees the planes can't take off from the airport and the wheels of a parked plane will sink in to the blacktop. I won't be too worried until the temperature exceeds 123 degrees or if it stays above 120 degrees for more than a few days at a time. But last year's hot season lasted roughly five months, which isn't usual. It takes six kilo-watts of air conditioning every hour during daylight hours, just to stay comfortable in my house. The temperature outside now at 12:40 AM is 93 degrees. The temperature tonight won't drop below 82 degrees. A few nights ago the low temperature was 93 degrees. If you sleep with the windows open it's like having a fever. Basically, everyone here lives in a large refrigerator called a house.

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Posted by: Brother Of Jerry ( )
Date: June 22, 2021 03:12PM

The June record for hundred degree days in SLC is 8. Today we hit 7 days. The last 3 days of June next week are all predicted above 100.

Another record bites the dust. Or should I say there is a forty percent probability of bitten dust?

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Posted by: azsteve ( )
Date: June 22, 2021 05:24PM

These are all good points. But what are we supposed to do to reverse the situation? I use 50 to 75 kilowatts of power every day in the summer, just to keep the temperature at 78 degrees inside.

Last year as an experiment, I installed a new mini-split AC system in the master bedroom/bathroom area. So between 3:00 and 8:00 PM (peak demand hours) we let the rest of the house get as hot as it will get with no AC, while we spend most of our time in the master bedroom in comfort. That'll keep my monthly peak demand at 1.5 KW and thus, save roughly $90/month in Demand charges. This winter, I am going to install mini-split AC systems in the other bedrooms. I found a 12000 BTU mini-split AC system that plugs directly in to the big 300 watt solar panels (six panels per mini-split system). Solar panels are getting cheap now and by plugging them directly in to the mini-split air conditioning systems, you don't have to worry about buying inverters, charge controllers, or batteries, or about getting in to a grid-tie (power buy-back) agreement with the power company.

https://www.hotspotenergy.com/solar-air-conditioner/

When the sun shines, you use no power to run the air conditioners. When the sun sets, the hybrid AC system automatically starts taking power from the grid system to continue cooling the home at night. Most of us have a daily power use pattern that looks like a bell curve. Most of our power to cool the home is needed when the sun shines. So theoretically, it might be possible to get a Spring/Fall level of electricity usage in mid summer.

Once it's all installed, the old Central AC system can become just the back-up system. For half of the year, the solar panels will go mostly unused. But then again, if the power goes out in the summer, I'll be able to have air conditioning every day the sun shines. It'll be interesting to see how it goes. I'll be doing most of the installation work myself.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/22/2021 05:26PM by azsteve.

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Posted by: Brother Of Jerry ( )
Date: June 23, 2021 01:12AM

Air conditioning is not the fundamental problem. Water is. If that goes, Phoenix goes. The entire Colorado River basin may be in trouble unless the current drought reverses. The water deficits just keep getting bigger each year.

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