Some inactive Mormons, who don't like the church, stick around, perhaps feeling guilty at their 'inactive' status, because they believe Joseph actually dug physical plates out of the ground at Cumorah.

The Mormon church's reason to exist hangs on this one event.

If the plates were real, meaning physical, the church is indeed true, like it or not, regardless of messy doctrinal issues.

But look into it, and you'll see that 'plates' were only a claim. They were imaginary. No one ever saw them with their 'natural' eyes. This domino drops all other dominos on the table.

This is the one thing church leaders do not want to hear about.
Everything else can be discussed. If you believe the plates were real, there is a chance you'll return someday.

The 'witnesses' saw the plates with their eyes closed. The topic of 'golden plates' is the church's Achilles heel.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 07/15/2021 05:43PM by madeguy.

My opinion, which I will only share; you can't have it..., is that there are numerous mormon Achilles heels (it's actually the tendon...).

It all depends on which one finally trips the land mine and you explode out of the church.

I'd tell you what did it for me, but that's between me and (in my opinion) Mr. non-existent ghawd.

"Where the f**k are the golden plates?"

In primary, Sunday school, home evening, seminary and so on I literally wasted hundreds of hours listening to stories about the golden plates. I mean god exhausted enormous effort to protect them so that this dispensation could benefit from them. And god is all powerful....right???

So after all that, just when we need the plates to make he BoM have an ounce of credibility he yanks them up to heaven so that they don't get stolen by Appalachian hillbillies. He can protect the plates from a million angry lamenites but a dozen upstate NY treasure hunters got god's number. Right....that's the ticket. Seriously???

I came up with a better story than that when I threw the baseball and broke the kitchen window. Come on..that lie barely rates a C+. So yeah, if you want me to swallow the mormon shit sandwich, better be prepared to produce some gold plates.

I’ve observed that many ‘fence sitting’ members keep one foot in the door over the “How could a teen-ager write something like the BOM on their own?” excuse.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/15/2021 04:41PM by csuprovograd.

csuprovograd Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I’ve observed that many ‘fence sitting’
> members keep one foot in the door over the “How
> could a teen-ager write something like the BOM on
> their own?” excuse.
He was not a teenager when he drempt up the "historical novel"
Not only that he always had a very creative imaginative mind
someone else who has a great creative mind?
DAN BROWN



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/16/2021 03:23PM by thedesertrat1.

TBMs have been taught since childhood that not believing in Mormon teachings has consequences. The consequences are severe, like not being with loved ones in the next life. They have been taught to hold on to the iron rod no matter what, and to doubt their doubts. If they let go of the rod or start to doubt, there are severe consequences, like not being with loved ones in the next life or being without the holy spirit in this life.

I think that inactive Mormons who still hold onto some of the crazy teachings, like the BoM, do so out of fear of consequences. If there were no consequences attached with not believing in false teachings, they would let go.

The Mormon religion is a fear-based religion, which is why it is so harmful, even if it has many nice members.

“This domino drops all other dominos on the table.”

I’m pretty sure those dominos are crazy-glued to the table. Mormons can believe anything with their eyes closed. When I was TBM, inconsistencies didn’t register. It’s like I had a blind spot. Maybe the brainwashing is a kind of tunnel vision.

Look at the Book of Abraham, which Egyptologists consider an impudent fraud. Mormons still consider it an inspired work. The fact that it’s complete BS is merely a mystery of God.

In the journal of one of ancestors he writes about the then current rumor that Joseph actually had some brass candlesticks melted into plates and covered some with "chicken scratches" and bound up the rest.

Joseph supposedly showed these plates to the "waitresses" and others.

Ok auto correct problem

Change waitresses to witnesses

Brass plates weren’t the only thing he wanted to show those waitresses.

I've told the story before, but I was first introduced to Mormonism through a high school friend who was a convert. We were both taking a World Religions course at the time, and with the permission of the teacher she brought in an introductory film/filmstrip about Mormonism. Sitting there in the dark, I had many questions while watching the film, but where I really wanted to howl with laughter was when the film narrator explained that the angel took the golden plates away.

How convenient, right? I was sitting there wondering how credulous you would have to be to believe *that.* But that's religion in a nutshell.

If you look at it in terms of wants -- Joseph wanted easy money (check,) women (check,) and to be highly esteemed by his community (check.) I think he may have also had need of a religious community (hence his application to join the Methodists,) and whatever psychological needs that con artists have, i.e. to want to dominate others through putting one over on them.

His followers had needs as well. They wanted a religious community (check,) that spoke uniquely to the American experience (check.) They wanted assurance of an afterlife (check,) and that they would be together with their families in this afterlife (check.) They wanted strong leadership (check,) and to be given direction (check.) I think on some level they did not mind being asked to make sacrifices for their beliefs (check.) In return, they would be asked not to question things too closely.

So, needs were met on both sides. But if you have a strong need for the *truth*, no matter how the chips fall, then it is more likely than not that Mormonism won't work out for you.

>So, needs were met on both sides. But if you have a strong need for the *truth*, no matter how the chips fall, then it is more likely than not that Mormonism won't work out for you.

I personally think that is the strongest unifying characteristic of people here. There are people in the world for whom whether something makes rational sense or not is not a priority for them. ExMormons by and large are NOT that group.

The BoA was claimed by JS to be written by the hand of Abraham. Analysis of the papyri clearly shows that is impossible, and the text, which we can now read, is a complete non-match with JS's fiction.

The BoM has similar problems.

Mark Hofmann clearly put one over on the Q15. They were totally suckered.

Correlation was largely a power play to put the RS under the Q15's thumb. It was also a McDonald's-like branding exercise. Mormonism will be recognizable and the same everywhere.

Mormonism was institutionally racist. Many are still individually racist, though institutional policies have changed. It is still institutionally sexist, and homophobic.

All of these (and more) should cause serious problems for people who rationally examine what is going on. NeverMos and ExMos have little problem understanding these issues and deciding they are going to keep their distance from Mormonism.

What is astonishing for us exMos is how the True Believers™ seem completely incapable of understanding the problems. It's not like the problems are subtle.

"Wanna come over and see my etchings?"

That line worked so well he got a whole book out of it.

Most Mormons who make a big deal about the existence of the plates are unaware that James J. Strang, who claimed to be Joseph Smith's successor, ALSO retrieved ancient plates and translated them as scripture. And he had witnesses who testified to having actually seen Strang retrieve them from where they had be anciently buried (and they specifically said that the ground appeared untouched).

See http://www.strangite.org/Plates.htm

So, Mr. Mormon Elder, why do you believe Smith's story, but not Strangs?

madeguy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> If the plates were real, meaning physical, the
> church is indeed true, like it or not, regardless
> of messy doctrinal issues.

uhhhhhhhhhh, NOT necessarily (!!!!!!!)

Even IF the gold plates had been an actual existing object/ an actual artifact with whatever message from ancient inhabitants of the American continent in whatever language, the Book of MORMON text that Con Man Swindler Joseph Smith came up is still an utterly fraudulent POS !!!! and a forgery !!!! and a prime /key indication that Joseph Smith was full of Crap.

and LDS Inc as it stands with it's stupid secret handshakes to get into (a MORmON) heaven and other MORmONIC idiocy would still be a SCAM.

It is the Book of MORMON church (SCAM) itself that painted itself into the absolutist corner of "it has to be all true or it is all NOT true". They thought that it was really cute and clever at the time that they were doing it. They felt comfortable declaring their supposed superiority based on having supposed additional scripture due to continuing revelation as they had a supposed living latter day prophet running their MORmON show. They were comfortable making demands in a tightly controlled and highly limited context. Those artificial (MORmON) limits have not held up so well. With the slightest real inspection, the added features implemented by (con man) Joseph Smith and his book of MORMON church turn out to be major screw ups much more than anything genuine.

When the natural question naturally came up, asking where the iconic gold plates were after being translated, and then Smith said in MORmON response that he had given them to an angel for safe storage in heaven ......which precluded any open public inspection of the gold plates, then that was another epic "GAME OVER !!!!!" moment in the utterly impossible and utterly corrupt history of the founding of the Book of MORmON church /religion (SCAM). It is truly "a marvelous work and a wonder" that the Book of MORmON church has somehow found enough faithFOOL (MORmON) suckers to keep itself going away, even as the Book of MORMON church scam has finally found itself in a (highly precarious) position where it would like to avoid its own highly embarrassing MORmON name and highly questionable MORmON background as much as possible while still running it's BS based scam.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5eqps2O7s8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbrJjqZul-I&;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxJ7gKIymVo

How come all the “witnesses” had the same handwriting?

You want the real reason or can I make one up?

Jesus can do whatever he wants. That's the point of being Jesus.