Recovery Board  : RfM
Recovery from Mormonism (RfM) discussion forum. 
Go to Topic: PreviousNext
Go to: Forum ListMessage ListNew TopicSearchLog In
Posted by: cludgie ( )
Date: October 17, 2021 02:28PM

This is actually a kind of new development in my family, coming after many years of scratching my head over inexplicable things my wife has done:

I've complained here in the past that my wife, while supposedly engaged to me, was having a secret sexual affair that started when she met a complete stranger who invited her to bed. It was not only just wrong, but it was dangerous. She had many sexual encounters with this guy, who was a complete stranger on the first encounter. She did it without using or even asking about protection, deciding to be sexually active without even bringing a condom to the table, not knowing where this guy's junk had been, actually refusing to learn who he actually was or anything about him, not even thinking about pregnancy, not thinking about an STI or STD until she actually had to be treated for one, not thinking about getting kicked out of BYU if she were caught, not thinking about getting kicked out of BYU if she got pregnant, not thinking about her parents' reaction to her coming home pregnant, not knowing what tack she'd take if she got pregnant or otherwise kicked out, or how it could ruin her plans for marrying me or any Mormon guy, etc. I had never encountered anything as foolish as what she did.

She has always claimed that she actually could not stand the guy, but couldn't refuse him, because he told her he wanted it and therefore she had to do it, "and for some reason I just did." As for me, for some reason I married her, anyway, after seeking help from my bishop. I don't want to go into reasons why, because today I feel like a complete fool for doing the church's "seven-step plan of forgiveness" thingie. I, sir, am an idiot.

While I believe that she hasn't done anything like that since, she has done a lot of inexplicable things based on someone just telling her to. It comes out in odd ways: If I have an idea about doing something, even if it is just a house repair, she may tell someone else--possibly even someone she never even met before--who may suggest that I not do what I had planned, and suggests something different. She'll then tell me adamantly not to do what I planned to, because man-on-the-street--now a perceived authority--suggested that I do something else. This infuriates me, mostly because she often doesn't believe in me or support me, but will believe in and take the word of man-on-the-street, or woman-on-the-street, or man at sacrament meeting, or woman at sacrament meeting, whatever.

Her mother had an abysmal self-image, and was completely deferential to anyone she believed to be better than she--which was everybody. Whatever bidding her husband or any church leader had, she felt obligated to do it, no questions asked. So just a couple of days ago, my similarly very deferential wife was telling our oldest daughter about her very deferential mother, and told my daughter that, as she was growing up, every so often her mother would sternly shake her finger at her and say, "Whatever someone tells you to do, you just do it!" Hearing that story was an eye-opener. I had never heard her tell that story, and I immediately know how things happened the way they did.

So here we are some 50 years later, and although there have been plenty of good times, I still see danger lurking for her. I still see her suddenly doing something stupid, and then feeling guilty about it afterwards. I still see the possibility of some random bishop telling her to do something, and her just doing it. I still see my wife doing what anyone perceived authority figure (i.e., apparently any man or a woman) tells her to do. It has caused a lifetime of trust issues.

Therein must lie the reason she will occasionally do impossibly stupid things. She still is on the path to listen to and do whatever anyone tells her to. Combine this with a church that values obedience above all else, that has whole groups of men in perceived authority telling others to do whatever, and there's a recipe for a potentially dangerous outcome.

Does anyone here know of similar cases? Of blind obedience to perceived authority, and not thinking about outcomes?



Postscript: Fast-forward to 2015; I inadvertently saw in the Salt Lake Tribune that this former f*ck-buddy of hers had suddenly passed away. His obit made a point of saying that he was a "faithful Latter-day Saint." I, on the other hand, resigned my membership in 2009, which made her think I had gone off the rails and ruined our lives, which caused her to think that perhaps she should divorce me. Weird, how things like that work out.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/18/2021 01:23AM by cludgie.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: summer ( )
Date: October 17, 2021 03:15PM

No, I've never heard of that. I think your wife might benefit from therapy, and perhaps assertiveness training. Please consider that she may not always have you around, and unfortunately there are many people who may take advantage of her.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: cl2notloggedin ( )
Date: October 17, 2021 04:10PM

and you are one of my favorite posters so I read all your posts. Maybe I just wasn't around for a few days.

I'm in absolute shock except think what I did. I've said that once my dad found out I did know he was gay before I married him, he asked me why of course and I said, "Because the leaders told me I had to save him." My dad was not in good health at the time, but he is one of the strongest men I've ever known or IS the strongest man I've ever known. He was furious. They told me not to tell my parents or anyone else. I did tell 2 people, who supported me marrying him. I guess I knew who to pick to tell me how to F up my life. My dad said to me, "I just couldn't figure it out because you are far too intelligent to marry someone gay." And then he told me that gays are born that way. Now what if I had asked my dad? What if I hadn't listened. I'm really regretting my choices today and yet we've had good years mostly because of my sacrifices FOR MY KIDS and for some peace in our lives.

So, I did what they said. I can't believe you married her. BUT, BUT, BUT wait a minute. It just occurred to me that my husband had had sex with MANY MEN before I married him.

I believe it is being raised to believe that the leaders have a direct line to God and have inspiration and so we deny our own intuition, our own inner voice SCREAMING at us, but they told me to marry him. I had to save him or he was damned.

You tend to think you are over it, that you've healed, and then you get hit in the face with a baseball bat and here those stupid decisions you made because you were raised mormon are back. I'd just like a little peace before I die. I'd like him to die first and soon right now. Go away so the kids and I can have some peace.

I'm sorry for what your wife has put you through. And she is still mormon and the guy who said he wanted sex with her is still mormon. My boyfriend, I dated in 1977 and I didn't have sex with him until 2005. I told him NO. In fact, he wouldn't have asked me. He knew me well enough that he knew it would be detrimental to me at that point in my life--20 years old. The nonmormon guys were much more respectful to me.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: olderelder ( )
Date: October 17, 2021 05:13PM

It's sad that apparently you're not one of the authority figures she listens to.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: scmd1 ( )
Date: October 17, 2021 07:20PM

Wow. This is amazing.

Perhaps you could plant some random man in the street, person at church, or bishop to tell her that she needed to seek therapy or counseling. Even a bishop should see a problem with what you have described, especially in light of her mother repeatedly having told her point-blank, "Whatever someone tells you to do, just do it!" While I'm skeptical of much what goes on under the LDS brand of "counseling," even LDS counseling would be better than nothing where your wife is concerned. An LDS counselor with one-quarter of a functioning brain would recognize that a person who thinks she should listen to and obey literally anyone who tells her to do something and who believes everyone (other than her husband) is an authority in whatever domain he or she claims as an area or expertise is skating on very thin ice.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Kathleen ( )
Date: October 17, 2021 08:06PM

How lucky she hasn't fallen in with some crazed strangler.

This is so dangerous on so many planes for you and for her both--one of the of the saddest stories I've heard in a marriage.

Please get help for her quickly (and also for yourself in dealing with this).

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Anon this time. ( )
Date: October 17, 2021 08:50PM

I get it. With an authoritarian religion or parents, you don't think you have the right or the ability to think for yourself.

My first true love was also my first intimate partner. I had sex with him for all the wrong reasons and none of the right ones. I had so internalized all that Mormon bull-crap about chastity. I was actually convinced that sex would defile me, contaminate me. I'd be a fallen woman. People would talk about me!! Everyone would know. Instructions from someone else on how I had to live life.

He wasn't really that pushy but looking back, I felt guilt for his "misery", his "need". So it was guilt for doing it and guilt for not doing it.

Eventually we had to part - neither of us wanted that but there were other circumstances. Again, obedience. Me living for someone else's needy situation.

I dated a lot after we were separated by a gazillion miles. I couldn't get over him. He got over me. Temporarily. Any kind of intimacy with anyone else was for me, always a matter of conflict, compromise, guilt, ennui, resentment, disgust, fear of being used.

I finally met the man I married and felt such relief that he wasn't constantly trying to get me into bed. Joke on me, he didn't after we got married either.

About ten years after I married, first guy contacts me. Of course he's married; I'm married. Neither of us really happy but neither of us terribly unhappy. I began to see him occasionally, and kept in contact through snail mail and later email. Until his wife found out. Then it stopped.

He's now in ill health, not long to live. I still love him as much as I ever did. His wife takes good care of him. She and I are friends now. (She contacted me to tell me of his condition.) My husband has been loyal, a good decent man, even if an unaffectionate one.

If I had it to do over again, I would have enjoyed the sex - as much as I wanted - and not felt guilty. I wouldn't have moved away from him for someone else's sake. I would have treated him better and not blamed him for my "loss of virginity" - a loss I see now as no more important than my first lost tooth.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: October 18, 2021 02:55AM

Nicely written.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Done & Done ( )
Date: October 18, 2021 10:46AM

Yes. Nicely written. If only we knew then what we knew now . . .

All the guilt and regret for nothing dammit. What a waste.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Greyfort ( )
Date: October 17, 2021 09:47PM

Wow, you could really have used that to your advantage. LOL

Anyway, being someone whose own personal motto is "to thine own self, be true," this is a little difficult for me to imagine. People can't make me do anything that I don't want to do. That's one thing that always got me in trouble as a Mormon.

"You're going to give the prayer today." "Heck, no I'm not."

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Kathleen ( )
Date: October 18, 2021 01:29AM


Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/18/2021 10:48AM by kathleen.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Done & Done ( )
Date: October 18, 2021 10:58AM

The entrenchment into our psychs of putting others first? Self sacrifice as noble? Even Godly. I know I heard that crap enough from the pulpit that it made a deep impact. Add to that a natural inclination to be unable to hurt someone and you have the perfect recipe for acting against your own best interest.

And I did.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Kathleen ( )
Date: October 18, 2021 11:28AM

What if a woman had asked her for sex? Would that have changed the trajectory of her life? You may want to ask her.

I think the "Whatever someone tells you to do ..." is an excuse to carry on with her "fnck-buddy," as you call him, whom she said she didn't like. Well, she was liking something there.

Have the neighbor come over and tell her to mop the neighbor's kitchen floor every day. See if she "does what she's told." Bet she doesn't.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Done & Done ( )
Date: October 18, 2021 11:37AM

The wisdom of Solomon again. So simple. Kathleen seems to have a direct line.

Options: ReplyQuote
Go to Topic: PreviousNext
Go to: Forum ListMessage ListNew TopicSearchLog In


Screen Name: 
Your Email (optional): 
Subject: 
Spam prevention:
Please, enter the code that you see below in the input field. This is for blocking bots that try to post this form automatically.
 **      **  **      **  ********   ******     *******  
 **  **  **  **  **  **  **    **  **    **   **     ** 
 **  **  **  **  **  **      **    **         **        
 **  **  **  **  **  **     **     **   ****  ********  
 **  **  **  **  **  **    **      **    **   **     ** 
 **  **  **  **  **  **    **      **    **   **     ** 
  ***  ***    ***  ***     **       ******     *******