I was going to tack this onto the original thread, but it apparently got relocated to that Giant Bit Bucket in the Sky by admin. Things do go off the rails sometimes.

I opined in the original thread that 40% was a preposterous number, nowhere near in line with the experience of other organizations that had vaccination mandates. I expected the final number would be under 5%, and perhaps under 3%

The deadline was Oct 18, and on Oct 19, SeattleTimes ran an article listing all the state departments, their vaccination levels (which ranged from 98% to 87%), total employees per department and total resigned/fired.

Long story short, just under 3% were resigned/fired, and 4.6% were still undetermined. Some were considering retiring, some had applied for exemptions that were still in process, and some would probably decide to get vaccinated, or be assigned to jobs having no contact with the public.

1,900 and change is the 3% mark. Last week the report was 1,800 and change had been let go. This week, the number let go has dropped to 1,700 and change. Apparently some people were calling the state's bluff, and when they found out the state was not bluffing, they had a change of heart.

The numbers are expected to continue to bounce around, but they are approximately 3%, which is about what the number was for American Airlines, one of the earlier mandates. 3% was also my most optimistic prediction.

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/nearly-1900-washington-state-workers-quit-or-are-fired-over-covid-vaccine-mandate/

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/number-of-washington-state-seattle-public-workers-getting-vaccinated-inches-up/

I think a lot of what is driving vaccine mandates is simple economics. If you have a lot of workers sick, health insurance costs shoot up. And if you have a lot of workers sick or hospitalized with Covid, essential services are impacted.

The red states are not exempt from economic consequences.

This is insanity

I was a bit worried by the headline as I also live in WA but it wasn't my WA...Western Australia.

Thank you BoJ. Wanted to know that.

3% is a lot, almost 2,000 jobs.
We lost 38% of the people in my department alone.
But we were especially hard hit.

Anybody want a job?

And it is 37% less than 40%. Tyson Foods also just reported that they have 96% vaccinated as their deadline approaches.

And the 38% fired out of your department - let me guess: 3 people out of 8. Tough for your department, but an overall turnover of 3% at the state level is hardly a crisis. I am guessing they normally have 5% turnover in a given year. This year will be a little higher. They will cope.

Yep, we are in hiring mode!
I fully support vaccine mandates.
And I’m glad they fired the Covidiots!

A good fix that would satisfy both political parties would be to charge double insurance for those who refuse the shot for religious persecution or whatever, at my company smokers get an extra surcharge every month for their unhealthy habits, covid should be the same.

Actually a good idea.

The NYC Police unions engaged in much gnashing of teeth and rending of garments last week about the vaccine mandate deadline for NYC police and firefighters, set for Oct 29.

The police unions said up to 10,000 of their members (out of about 35,000) were threatening to walk out. NYC was possibly going to turn into the most dystopian scenes of a Batman movie.

As with Washington state, talk was cheap. As of yesterday (11/2), 34 officers had been suspended for noncompliance. There are a number of exemption requests still pending, Forty civilian NYPD employees were also put on leave-without-pay (out of 17,000), and 9,000 total city employees LWOP out of 300,000. That's just under 3%, same as in Washington. [the staff mathematician informs me that 300,000/9,000 is exactly 3%. :-/ ] [edit 2: the staff mathematician was wrong. It is 3.3333333% :-// ]
[edit 3: 9,000/300,000 is in fact 3%, exactly. I, er, the staff mathematician had the fraction upside down. :-/// ]

I see a pattern developing.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/11/02/nypd-unpaid-leave-vaccine-mandate/ (probably paywalled)



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 11/03/2021 05:16PM by Brother Of Jerry.

Unvaxxed health care workers in Ontario just called the bluff of the provincial government about vaccine mandates and won. The govt stated today they would not require HCW to be vaxxed but they must submit to COVID testing 3x/wk.

But if they won't do testing they will not be able to work.

The govt's reason was that with the large number of HCW who would be prevented from working due to not being vaxxed their absence would harm the public as investigations and treatments would be delayed.

So you can get in for your cancer screening but you may contract the virus from your health care provider.

Hobson's choice I think they call that. Or something worse.

The Ontario govt has come under a LOT of criticism already during the pandemic for its leader's questionable choices all along.

I don't know what the answer is but this seems like a bad precedent to set.

I continue to be shocked that HCW are resisting the vaccine. They are at risk from their patients and vice versa. It's a lose-lose.

Just like Reagan firing the Air Traffic Controllers - if you don't do what is required you lose your job.

Those losing the job because they won't follow Public Health guidelines should not get unemployment - they should get NO benefits of any kind.

Survivors of anti-vaxers who die of Covid should be denied social security VA benefits.

https://www.kristv.com/veteransinfocus/kris-6-helps-widow-access-her-veteran-husbands-benefits-after-he-dies-of-covid-19

Mormons have a reputation for being heavily into retribution, but even by that standard, your suggestion is absurd.

Why not go whole hog and punish them "unto the fourth and fifth generation"? The most obvious objection would be a little thing called the rule of law.

It wouldn't be fair to penalize a survivor for the choices of someone else. They may have had little to no influence over that person's decisions. The survivor may be vaxxed themselves so what else could they have done?

Besides, if a survivor doesn't get their benefits and falls into poverty, likely society would have to support them in some way. The whole thing ends up being false economy as well as unfair and is potentially punishing someone for something that isn't their fault.

I don't think punishment for the sake of retribution is a good motivator when it comes to the pandemic in general. It is more likely to entrench someone's position against being vaxxed.

Between the carrot and the stick, I'll take the carrot method. My nephew was slow to get vaccinated but was first in line when public health measures mandated that everyone going into restaurants must show their vaccine card. That's a win-win all 'round without being punitive.