Hello all,

This may be an easy answer for you but I am struggling with it.

I got notice of a death in my brother's family a few days ago. Today the text came asking for help covering funeral costs, medical expenses, Christmas money and living expenses for a while. It was worded as an 'opportunity to pitch in.'

I have spoken to my brother once in the 10 years since I have been out of the church. I was essentially disowned the moment I left.

I am all over the place about what to do and am looking for advice. Do I pitch in? Do I not? How will it be perceived that the black sheep is helping/not helping? Does it even matter?

"The Lord will provide."

You are not the Lord, so . . .

There are a lot of adjectives I would put in front of 'dime'!

You don't give them any (adjectives) dimes.

Please be assured that they would NOT be helping out your family were the roles reversed.

I say these things in Jesus, the Great Mormon's name, amen.

Funeral costs and medical expenses; sounds like a covid gofu**me.

If they're hitting others up for dough, they didn't have insurance. Since they couldn't be bothered to provide for themselves, why should you bail them out of their crappy and irresponsible choices? Did they even invite you to the funeral, or is it just a money grab?

Clearly, you owe them nothing. If it were me, I'd ignore it, unless I felt particularly snarky, in which case I'd send exactly $1 in loose change, just to let them know how much/little I valued them.

the invite came as a screenshot of a group text message.

Yuck. That tell you all.

Yeah. If you were never in on the original group text message, the message was not for you.

That is very hurtful.

fred-NLI Wrote:
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> This may be an easy answer for you but I am
> struggling with it.

I have never been Mormon, so I have no Mormon personal history to assist, but here is my decidedly nevermo opinion:


> I got notice of a death in my brother's family a
> few days ago. Today the text came asking for help
> covering funeral costs, medical expenses,
> Christmas money and living expenses for a while.
> It was worded as an 'opportunity to pitch in.'

I come from a nevermo family which decisively split (between adult brothers, their spouses, and their offspring) sometime after, but sort of near, the time I was born. It is not the same situation as you are dealing with, but it is not that different, either.


> I have spoken to my brother once in the 10 years
> since I have been out of the church. I was
> essentially disowned the moment I left.

Yup. This is very familiar to me, it is (between the brothers) what I grew up with and never (when I was growing up) understood.


> I am all over the place about what to do and am
> looking for advice. Do I pitch in? Do I not?

In your position, I think I would consider how I would feel, for the rest of my life, in each position. If I was reasonably financially sound, and I refused: How would I feel about myself decades later? From that vantage point, which would seem to be the long-term wiser choice?

Also: If the tables were turned, and I was in the position your brother's family is now in, would it be better to err on the side of possible needs (of your brother's family)? I know nothing about their financial position, but I'm pretty sure I know that if my father's brother's family had truly NEEDED financial assistance, I THINK my Dad, regardless of the personal histories involved (this involves two brothers, their wives, and some of the kids--most especially my individual existence), would have provided what financial assistance he reasonably could--not because the thought any differently about any of them (he was thoroughly pissed at his brother, and his reasons for being pissed were truly just), but to be what I (personally) would term a mensch.


> How will it be perceived that the black sheep is
> helping/not helping? Does it even matter?

In my opinion, it doesn't matter a bit what your brother's family would think. The crucially important thing is what you would/will think of yourself down the inevitable line (probably most especially as you are preparing for your own, fairly imminent, death--assuming that you have advance notice that your death is going to become a fact in the near future).

I would take into consideration your brother's family's needs, and also you and YOUR family's needs and resources, and then I would probably err on the side of whichever position I determined held the most overall wisdom.

You know your family and I don't, so I may not be at all close to the realities of your family's truth.

If you mentally flip the situation so that you are in your brother's/brother's family's position, what do YOU think and feel is both the most fair and the most appropriate, given all of the circumstances and facts and history you know and I don't?

YMMV.

So: From your personal perspective in this kind of situation (a family split between brothers), which do YOU think most "just," and the wiser, choice?



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 11/12/2021 10:29PM by Tevai.

Did covid cause the death ?

I am pretty sure COVID was not a factor.

This is probably no help at all, but if you have enough funds that you wouldn't miss the money and if it would make you feel better to "pitch in," by all means do so. If contributing would cause you to feel used or if you otherwise would simply rather not, you really should not feel obligated in any way.

That's roughly as clear as mud or pea soup.

I might send a note/ letter (and I might not), condolences, etc. Maybe even ask how he's doing. Possibly sending a holiday gift, or $, with WORDS...

But not sure about "Pitching In".
Or the gfm post

It's one thing to pay for a funeral (for the dead), but another all together to ask for HELP w/ Christmas $, and living expenses (for the living), ESPECIALLY if/ when they don't talk to you anyway.

GFM post?

I did send a message of my condolences

fred-NLI Wrote:
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> GFM post?

What is a GFM post?, 'cause I dunno.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/12/2021 10:55PM by Tevai.

Tevai Wrote:
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> fred-NLI Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > GFM post?
>
> What is a GFM post?, 'cause I dunno.


My guess: GoFundM-e

elderolddog Wrote:
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> My guess: GoFundM-e

Thank you.

Ask him if 10% of your income is okay.

IMHO

Since it was a rather impersonal message (screen shot? geesh!), I'd send an impersonal donation - like $5.

Add a message - "Hope this helps. Call me if you'd like to talk."

Perfect!

I went to my brother to ask for a loan 'cause I was busted
I hate to beg like a dog without his bone, but I'm busted
My brother said there ain't a thing I can do
My wife and my kids are all down with the flu
And I was just thinking about calling on you and I'm busted

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_Ew-768xmk

On a serious note (pun intended) who is the person who died, and what is his relation (and relationship) to you? "A person in my brother's family?" I'd be more inclined to help if it was a child, as that hits very hard and people don't prepare for that emotionally, nor financially. An elderly person? Why weren't there estate preparations? The brother's wife? These things matter. Some in-law to the brother? Why isn't that person's family handling this? If so, why should the brother assuming responsibility?


I do like the answer, "How do you think you'll feel a few years from now?"

The only time I have heard from my family of birth in 30 years was for money. They are asking again now after having asked a couple of years ago. I watched this dynamic for years with my grandmothers and mothers generation. They were always after the Sinners for money then ignored them and talked shit about them behind their backs. There was a major sense of entitlement. I refuse to play into it. I just ignore them. They have ignored me and my kids for decades. Also, I know if you give once they expect it and hit you up even more.

I agree with Susan I/S. I think that this is an "opportunity" that you can safely ignore. You are free to treat an impersonal request in an impersonal matter. And if your time and companionship are not good enough for that family. why would your money be good enough? I personally refuse to deal with people who only see me as a wallet. Your brother can take care of his own kin. It's not your job.

Yep. What Susan and summer said.

If you’d like to waste your money, I’m here to help.

This seems to be a very strange practice - asking extended family members that you have no actual relationship with, or have totally fallen out with, for money. Do you think it is to some extent a Mormon thing, or maybe a religious thing, or maybe an American thing?

I've never heard of it occurring in my non-American, non-Mormon experience. I grew up in a Christian environment, but even there, family connection only meant so much...

I should tell them I only give to wombats and drop bears.

Neither of those are scary enough or pushy enough that I would give them money. I'm more inclined to give to sharks, since a fatal attack at one of our local beaches last week...

To be fair, I don't use social media where I guess a lot of this begging goes on, so that might explain why it seems so strange to me.

I think in the U.S., begging on the whole is on the rise. Some people think it's cute to announce that it's their birthday, or bachelorette, etc., and to ask acquaintances and even perfect strangers to send them money via a cash app.

The old adage...Let the dead bury the dead comes to mind. In this case the ones that shunned you are the dead and let them rend to themselves.

If you're the black sheep/shunned one of the family it doesn't matter at all how you are perceived. In my case no matter what I do it's wrong so I quit caring about those that don't care about me.

As we enter interesting economic times, I'd advise you to look after yourself and your own kids. Nothing you do for those that ignore you for 10 years will ever be appreciated. Why bother?

"If you're the black sheep/shunned one of the family it doesn't matter at all how you are perceived. In my case no matter what I do it's wrong so I quit caring about those that don't care about me."

Exactly.

I think this is one place where Christianity breaks down. Saving people from the consequences of their actions doesn't help them. It usually hurts them. They made their bed, but they don't want to sleep in it. It's the "get out of jail free courtesy of Jesus" mentality. Mormons act like they have cosmic diplomatic immunity.

I would view this as a stranger asking for money. As long as they know that's what this is, I'd "chip in" a little. Not everyone thinks to get their urn from Ralph's.

I get almost similar calls now and then, from someone in the family around holidays and sometimes birthdays and maybe even some type of significant anniversary.

It does sort of stop me in my tracks for just a moment until I honestly ask myself an honest to God simple question like, "What Has Changed?"

Hey dude, "WE're all having a fantastic exmo post pandemic party and picnic", is not what the inquisition suggested.

I might respond as if it were simply a normal (Hi how are you?) like any other check-in inquiry and send back a lots-of-love message with no cash. These are awkward people with awkward ways so maybe normalize things quickly.

My drunkard friends I have known over 25 years are easier to train and deal with.

Saying that "I'll pray for you!" is way way on the snarkie side and to be avoided. Very tempting though, haa..

I loved Tevai's advice. What they think doesn't matter. What will you think?

In my own financial situation, I'd give them 100 dollars and be done. It's not nothing, but it won't hurt me.

Whatever brings you peace.

Since this golden opportunity is knocking on your no trespassing door, I would slam the door right in it's face.

This is not quite exactly the same scenario I went through 2 months ago. A nephew, who blames me and other family for his problems, (he is 35) called asking for help with his mortgage. I had not talked to him for a few years. DW agreed and we paid a couple months of his mortgage so he would not lose his house. I made it clear it was a one shot deal. Perhaps in your case, if it is not too uncomfortable, to send $300 or so to them. Not too much to hurt you, but enough to show that you were willing to help a bit, then continue to not have them in your life. I will try to help my nephew, though not financially. He has been lazy ignoring GI Bill opportunities my son set up for him. All he had to do was sign the paperwork and go to school. He did neither. It was with mixed feelings we paid so much, though we did it.

I like this. Somebody will notice and it might cause someone to think twice. Maybe a teenager or a child. I would write a short sympathy sentence to go with it.And be sure to SIGN it.

Great advice. At least they won't pay tithing on what you might give.

Does it ever hurt to be the better person?

Lots of people need help.

If you feel like being charitable, perhaps your money would be best spent on someone who truly deserves your love.

Send a donation to one of these LGBTQ charities or Planned Parenthood. Send it in the name of the deceased.

Send a note to your brother telling what you did. (Be nice!)

https://www.moneygeek.com/financial-planning/lgbtq-charities/

Sometimes when faced with a dilemma as this helps (somewhat) to split it up and examine the purpose.

First, I sniff a little entitlement mentality on the part of the requesters (i.e. analogy the work-hostage circumstance: so-and-so is having a birthday, and you should contribute monetarily for a gift and not be a jerk)

Second, considering circumstances of being "dis-personed" there is no obligation.

If providing a contribution, would it be to:

1. Assuage my own feeling of loss (or inappropriate guilt, if so inclined)

2. To assuage the feelings of the petitioners.

If (1), then by all means contribute a reasonable sum.
If (2), then know whatever sum is provided will not satisfy the entitlement; there will be the criticism of insufficiency.
Why, could even cover the entire expense and there will remain resentment e.g. "what a show-off." So expect no gratitude or return to civility.

But then, the name "No" perhaps skews perspective

Screenshot (of a group text)? No way!

So impersonal, self-serving, nonchalant...

Had they taken the time to pen me a letter, however, I might have listened.

If somebody only has a minute for me,
I only have a minute for them...
And I'll spend it telling them that.

This came up in our family...made me hunt for info on the go Fund website. I gave up trying to figure out what % of donations go to support the website/owners rather than to the supposed worthy recipient...still wonder about that practical bit of info.

I discovered that the person who sets up that kind of website to request Fund donations can set it up for the cash to pay to themself, or the supposedly worthy recipient.

Friend of a family member set up Fund for the family member to buy an emergency, international airline ticket home...then the employer paid for the ticket.

Inquiring minds want to know: where did those donated Funds go?

Her daughter died after she did from the same accident. Her disabled daughter survived. I didn't hesitate. This woman was a wonderful woman. She was in the ward and was my VT for a long time and I was hers. She treated me very well after I went inactive and was always there for me. I could go talk to her any time and she sent me notes all the time and would catch me out walking and stop me.

Then I have an old neighbor I grew up with. She is always doing go fund me pages and I think she is lying about most of the reasons she needs them. I donated the first time I saw one. Never heard a word about the outcome of the medical issue. No thanks, no nothing.

So then she ended up supposedly having breast cancer, COVID, and then brain cancer, and then needed a bone marrow transplant, but I know her too well and I was watching for things that would clue me in on what she was up to. When my sisters asked me what I was going to do, I said watch and wait. I saw too many clues that these were more than likely lies. My younger sister made a donation to one and ended up on a text message group and she keeps getting more and more requests for things from this woman. Just recently she asked for salmon as my sister's ex has a place in Alaska he goes up and fishes in the summer and her son goes along and brings home salmon and this woman knows it. She wanted my sister to bring her some salmon. That was the last straw.

It all depends on the person.

I'm sorry that you lost your friend, cl2. That must have been quite a shock. How terrible for the surviving daughter.

I am also sorry about your friend, and her daughter, dying, cl2.

What a terrible shock for everyone who knew them.

You're right, CL2, it all depends on the person.

My sympathies on the tragic deaths of your friend and her daughter. I lost a nephew this year in a car accident and my own dear little brother the same way, just out of high school when I was in my 20s. Life is so momentary and can disappear in a flash. All we have is this precious time. Right now!

Yeah, but wild caught salmon. It's hard to blame her for trying.

She was 91. I think she was sticking around for her disabled daughter. Her daughter has cerebral palsy. The other daughter was going to take care of the one with CP when their mother died. There are some people who really are angels and she was one. My daughter said when the bishop announced she had died (though she hasn't lived her for 8 years), a huge gasp went up in the congregation. She was special.

As for the salmon, yep. You're right. I get to enjoy some of it.

Take the high road. There are fewer people on it. Give a little to the GFM account and wish them well. That they ostracized you is a reflection on THEIR character not yours. Don't go down to their level. They will beat you with experience.



HH =)

If you are able to help and choose to do so then by all means help
It could be a way to heal.
It could also be a con.
When my wife died a large numbeer of my friends and family helped with the expenses which were horrendous.
Do What your inner self counsels you to do.

Thank you all for your stories, input, ideas, opinions and suggestions. DW and I have discussed this at length and have decided to show support without money. I have sent a heartfelt note to my brother for his loss. I do not plan to attend the funeral. I will contact him again to see how he is doing with everything in several weeks.

What a good plan! That's a kind and empathetic response. You can see how your brother reacts to the note.

summer Wrote:
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> What a good plan! That's a kind and empathetic
> response. You can see how your brother reacts to
> the note.

I agree.

I think you and your wife are handling this very well.

That sounds nice. Be back in touch in a few weeks.
Best to you and yours~

Love it.

It is not about them or what they would do unless you want to be like them.

Name a star after the deceased and send the certificate to the family.

https://starregister.org/?kw=Star%20Registry&gclid=Cj0KCQiAys2MBhDOARIsAFf1D1fWph_yK7VevuabiAYeSZ00YNXILWedi0bu2avk84sg7hM1CbmP3FsaAvc-EALw_wcB

Better yet ... go SuperNova show what it really means. And slightly misspell the name.

I was hit-up by my former sister-in-law's family, who were con-artists. Her brother Glen didn't like to work, and when he died, his widow had no money for a headstone for his grave. My parents paid for the whole thing, and I added a small amount, though Glen was no realation, and we hadn't seen him since he was in our ward, 25 years ago. He was buried in a family plot on their family ranch. Three years later, Glen's sister died, and my parents, myself, my brother, and my uncle drove to the burial together, and on the way home, my brother said, "I asked to see Glen's gravestone, and his widow never bought one--and I gave her more than enough money to pay for it." My father said, "You did? So did I!" and my uncle said, "That's odd--I gave her the money for Glen's headstone, too!" We wondered how many others must have given his widow money for a gravestone. We weren't angry--and got a good laugh out of it.

Still--I have learned that if you give someone money, the giving ends there. What they do with it is out of your hands, and none of your business. I don't like giving money to people I don't trust. It's like paying tithing! Exactly where is my money going???

You could mail the beggars a Honeybaked ham, or Harry and David fruit, other Christmas food. If you live nearby, send someone over with take-out food. Don't go in person. Eric K. did good by paying his nephew's mortgage directly to the mortgage company. You could pay towards their medical bills--ask for the address and mail the money directly to the hospital or doctors.

I like the idea of sending a nice sympathy card, though it would be tempting to send them a polite, businesslike group text, so everyone else can read it too. You could give them some good unsolicited advice, and the name of a good health insurance company, or a job referral, or whatever it is they really need. It depends on who it is, and why they are begging at you.

Yeah, do what makes YOU comfortable. My own beloved father and uncle would have given them money--that's just the way those men were were--and several relatives took advantage of them--but they weren't terribly hurt by it. No matter how much money you give them, it won't be enough, I'm just sayin'.

I'm not as generous as my father. Whenever Mormons came to my door to pressure me for tithing, fast offering, or other money, I would ask them for money for my kids'schools, for the children's hospital Assistance League, or for the battered women's shelter, or anything else I happened to be volunteering for.

Send them a book of Mormon, and tell them to read it, again. I have actually had Mormons do that to me, even though I was never in need of help in any way.