So where is the Christus statue? News reports say it is "in storage". Seems about right.

Seriously, what is going on with all this renovation? I can understand needing to retrofit the temple to bring it up to earthquake standards, but it seems like there is a complete renovation going on. I guess the old visitor center area will be more gardens and such.

Is there a special department at the COB that is tasked with things they can do to make it look like they are not just hoarding their $100B stash?

The Assembly Hall and the Tabernacle are not being modified. The two visitors centers and that annex building on the north side of the temple are all removed.

They will also remove the ten foot wall that surrounds Temple Square. That is probably the biggest reason the visitor centers are being removed. I know the SE visitor center had two of its walls either right next to those border walls, or the border walls were actually the walls of the visitor center. I never noticed of the NW visitor center was right up against the border wall, but it could not have been very far from that wall.

Taking the wall around Temple Square down is a good idea IMHO. Mormon archtecture has a tendency to look very big and blocky and solid - rather like a penitentiary. The Conference Center certainly fits that description. The entrances to the Main Street Plaza between the temple and the COB has 4 big massive blocks measuring roughly ten by ten by ten feet.

They need to soften their image a bit. Taking the wall down around Temple Square will help.

There are also some cascading water features between the JS Building and the COB that are being removed because they were a maintenance nightmare, leaking water into the underground garage.

I'm sure the siesmic upgrade, and replacing all the temple windows is the major expense, The rest is pretty run-of-the-mill construction with corresponding run-of-the-mill costs.

Moved out of UT years ago and haven’t seen the SLC temple up close for years but I adore remember when the square and, indeed the temple itself were completely surrounded by a wall so that someone who never went into the temple only every saw the part above the wall.

The ten foot wall was built by Brigham Young. He ordered it built to see if the building skills of the members were good enough to start temple construction. Also he probably wanted the protection such a wall provides. You have to remember the church fell apart in Nauvoo. Brigham didn’t have all the skilled people who built the Nauvoo temple. He basically was starting over.

They have the "Museum" across the street, to the west, next to the genealogy building...

That museum is just a bigger, fancier visitor/propaganda center.

The temple square missionaries are still as cute as ever.

Just before having lunch with BofJ the other September, I asked a pair of them crossing back to Temple Square if they were from City Creek if they were coming back from a coffee break.

One of them laughed at my joke and the other frowned and started to explain that they don't drink coffee...

I took that as a clue as to which of the two to bet on regarding which one might make it out of the cult.

Ha! They always make the hotties Temple Square missionaries. I remember talking to a beautiful sister missionary from Mongolia. She was about six feet tall and stunningly beautiful. The kind of woman you remember years later. I wonder where she ended up and if she’s still active.

I live there now and find the sister missionaries to be surprisingly frumpy. They all are wearing prairie frocks and booties. The look either Amish or like Polygamists without the elaborate braided hair.

I agree. They are attractive, young women who are dressed like frumps. Does the church really feel that this is a selling point?

I keep asking myself that question. Why does anyone think that looks anything but culty and weird?

I kind of feel sorry for them.

I can't remember the link, but EOD supplied one where you could read missionary blogs where they were sometimes too honest and candid about what it's really like to serve as a church missionary.

I recall that the TS mission really has two or three assignments: Either on TS "looking pretty" or working the Beehive House. I think some were loaned out to the family history center or the call center.

Some were very bummed that they didn't get to experience door slams, tracting or interacting with other missionaries. Their area is very limited, they are watched on the church's CCTV and closely guarded. Someone else does their shopping and I think they were eating in their own section of the church office cafeteria. I think they were taken to a private gym on p-days. The church keeps them on a very short leash as they are not trusted to do much of anything without some kind of church handler.

elderolddog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> They have the "Museum" across the street...
>
> That museum is just a bigger, fancier visitor/propaganda center.
>

In 2014-2015 that museum was closed (FOR OVER A YEAR) to "remodel" it. They were supposed to/ TSCC said it was to replace some of the models of Joseph Smith with Jesus Christ ones, to make him, the latter, more the central part of Mormonism's (propagandist) ["hiSTORY"] story/ timeline.

Has anyone Ever visited there, Before or After (the changes from JS to JC) the switch?

I casually walked through it after having lunch with BofJ a couple of months ago. It is extremely JoJu-centric. The first offering is a Video-in-the-round showing the JoJu story. I did not partake.

Once past that you wander through static displays of the important steps of this life. His "marriage" to Emma gets a lot of over-the-top attention. What are no doubt meant to be considered wedding portraits show them individually as fully nourished, handsome, fashionable individuals. I've never seen the two portraits anywhere else in my mormon life.

There was one display that was kind of out of place, titled "The Indian Mission". The graphics mention that preaching to the Lamanites was one of three important revelations received in 1830. Here I quote the display:

"...in late 1830, Oliver Cowdery and his companions to Seneca Indians in New York and Huron Indians in Ohio. Both Nations expressed some interest in the Book of Mormon, which the missionaries shared with them as a record of their forefathers.

"Oliver <and> Parley ... journeyed into Indian Territory (present-day Kansas and Oklahoma) where the Lenape (Delaware) and Shawnee Nations showed great interest in the Book of Mormon."

From my exmo perspective, there's no way to fathom the hubris necessary to keep that posted! This is late 1830! Oliver visits New York, Ohio, Kansas & Oklahoma, all before the turn of the year. How much time was spent traveling and how much was spent preaching?!

Then there's the "Test of Faith" display, subtitled, "The Saints and Plural Marriage", followed by this tidy bit of prose:

"Accepting and living the principle of plural marriage was an Abrahamic trial of faith for those Nauvoo Saints to whom the principle was taught. Personal revelation and spiritual confirmation strengthened them to obey a commandment that was contrary to their customs and sentiments." ... yeah, pretty gross.

I'm reading all that I've quoted from the photos I took. And in looking at them all, it occurs to me that the intent of the museum is to try to touch on all the unseemly rumors that swirl in the heathen world regarding what mormons are all about.

Adam-ondi-Ahman is mentioned in a display whose intent is to make the reader feel sorry for the mormons and their cruel fate at the hands of those nasty Missourians... The Garden of Eden's location is revealed, but only as a leading to Haun's Mill! Poor, poor mormons!

I have a whole bunch of photos. Maybe I'll post them up on r/exmormon...

The front page of the Nauvoo Expositor is on display as the opening frame of what is titled "...the turning points that set the stage for the martyrdom of Joseph Smith..." I didn't click on the arrow to advance to the next point.

What I suppose are facsimiles of the Smith Bros. Cough Drops Death Masks are also on display.

It occurs to me that I should have asked one of the docents to take my photo next to the Lamanite Mission display, giving the Howdy Doody Peace Sign, while intoning, Cowabunga Buffalo Bob!


ETA: Oops! TLDR for The Cat:

I visited the Museum next to Temple Square. I give it a 76, Mr. Clark; the beat was too slow and words were gibberish, and so the church remains untrue. Stay away!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/22/2021 10:28PM by elderolddog.

So very ripe for a value sale, if just for the name's sake.

https://www.ripleys.com

"Believe It Or Not!"

That creepy Great White Jesus always looked like he was saying, "Hey, it's not gonna suck itself!"

Now he looks like a Great White Supremacist Jesus saying ‘Bitch Better Have My Money or This ain’t gonna suck itself!’ to me.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/21/2021 06:08PM by schrodingerscat.

The Christus statue is a copy of statue in a Danish Lutheran church. It’s not even LDS.

Rubicon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The Christus statue is a copy of statue in a
> Danish Lutheran church. It’s not even LDS.

.....and it still looks like that Jesus is in a pose ready to say: "Hey, it's not gonna suck itself!"

I used to live in the Avenues in Salt Lake. I still have a lot of friends there. A mix of never mo’s, ex mo’s and still active mo’s. Nobody is happy about Nelson’s remodel. For some of us Temple Square was a place you celebrated Christmas. You went and enjoyed the lights and listened to the choir.

I remember as a child walking up the big ramp in the Visitor’s Center with all the cosmic murals to the big Christ statue on top thinking it was cool.

Hey you grow up and learn Santa Claus isn’t real and the church is based on myths. But you still can have fun with it. Most the Cathedrals in Europe were built by assholes but we still enjoy them even if we don’t believe what’s taught in them.

The tragedy is President Nelson is killing Temple Square. It’s no longer the Mormon Tabernacle Choir. The Visitor Center is gone with it’s 1960’s cosmic architecture. He’s gutting the Salt Lake Temple. Most people I know in Salt Lake including active members don’t like it.

I’m a historian. I like the true history of things. I would love to see Temple Square left alone and kept as is. I’m not a fan of the overbearing control tactics the church uses. But I don’t want to erase what the built. Nobody’s history is clean but sometimes what asshole’s have built become a landmark and actually enjoyed by the community.

If I had my way the Salt Lake Temple would become a museum. A building to be enjoyed and lessons to be taught. Yes. They actually believed this crazy stuff and they built this.

We could tear the Christmas Holiday a new asshole by analyzing it to death. Yeah. It’s Christ meets paganism meets American pop culture. I say let’s party! Temple Square used to be the same artistic enjoyment. Let’s see the lights. Let’s hear some Christmas music. Maybe Christ will inside you to be a little better and let’s go across the street and do some shopping.

Rusty is the Nero of the church. He’s burning Rome to rebuild his version of it. He knows it. He’s even taken a piece of the Salt Lake Temple and made a tombstone for him and his wives and it now sits on the Nelson family plot in the Salt Lake Cemetery. On the back is a bronze plaque saying the monument was made from granite from the Salt Lake Temple renovation.

Nelson has built a temple monument to himself. He’s a legacy in his own mind.

Yep, scrub off the art and paint it beige,
Too much ‘color’ is not a good thing in such a vanilla ivory tower.

incidental tidbit in re Rusty monuments:

When Rusty's first wife died, she was interred beneath a basic headstone that had her data etched in, as well as Rusty's name and DOB, with his deceased date left open.

The remodeling of the temple allowed Rusty to appropriate a nice big block of temple foundation granite to use as a replacement for the original family plot headstone, with space for BOTH wives now, as well as for Rusty.

You can see the change from 2005 to the present at

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/10490518/dantzel-nelson

In an SLTrib story there's a photo of a little notice attached to the rear of the temple stone: https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2021/05/13/latest-mormon-land/

I didn't make too thorough a search, but my cursory search found no mention by the Deseret News of these goings-on, which I suppose is in line with their motto, "Only the news you need for Salvation."

My mom lived with us in her final years. She worked in the medical field and knew what doctors were like. She was reading the Church News and said. I see that Dr. Nelson found himself a trophy wife. Ha! Ha! Even my TBM sister finds a woman 30 years younger marrying someone that old weird and creepy. The Nelson’s are weird. Even by LDS standards.

I'd say this is often true of those at the top of any hierarchy.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/21/2021 10:30AM by Elder Berry.

Stones are vital to Mormon prophetic power. I wonder if Rusty's temple burial clothing will all be white silks? At least the tie and apron. Pharaohs need monuments to their memories. Less important but wiser people are satisfied with what's inside when they died.

What downtown SLC needs is a historic steam train.

Maybe they could tear down the Church Office Building and build a replica roundhouse for the Polygamy Central, err the Utah Central Railway.

That might please our resident train fanatics who frequent this board.

There was a 484 in Pioneer Park. It’s in Ogden now. Not much train stuff left in salt Lake other than the two railroad terminals.

Nelson will tear down the church office building and construct a giant Christ statue that you can go inside and climb to the top. He will put a big monument where you enter reminding everyone he was responsible for it’s construction.

Rubicon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Nelson will tear down the church office building
> and construct a giant Christ statue that you can
> go inside and climb to the top.

A Mormon Eiffel tower. With a less scenic view.

Doc Rusty has it in him, to finish this thing with his own tower of babble!

Just got back from a trip to SLC, after not having been there for about thirty years.

Walked around City Creek (to see where my tithing money went), as well as the conference center since i'd never seen it.

The whole place just screams "CULT!"

The conference center looks like the old Soviet brutalist architecture. I think they were going for perhaps Mayan or something, but they sure missed the mark. It screams authoritarian.

It has been a few years, but when I saw the conference center, it reminded me of Scientology architecture. I am frequently in Florida near Clearwater and that building (the conference center) would fit in perfectly with other Scientology structures. They seem to be on parallel paths in their building pursuits.

Eric K Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It has been a few years, but when I saw the
> conference center, it reminded me of Scientology
> architecture. I am frequently in Florida near
> Clearwater and that building (the conference
> center) would fit in perfectly with other
> Scientology structures. They seem to be on
> parallel paths in their building pursuits.

Mayan Roman OZ-ish crapo, using Southern Utah movie set (propaganda) ascetic architecture input, from their standing payroll.

When I saw the renderings for The Conference Center my first thought was I was in a cult and this was after going to the temple where I also felt the same thing.

So many signs and it was Joe's polyandry that finally did it.

First time I saw the conference center I thought it looked like Lenin's Tomb on steroids.

As for the north visitor center, I am actually going to miss that. I liked the mid century architecture of it and always liked the ramp going up to space Jesus.

I don't know what the church is trying to morph itself into but its something I no longer recognize.

Agreed.
Besides, if the church is just planning to turn itself into another pseudo-Protestant sect it ought to just come out and tell the truth about its history. I actually think a church that could be HONEST and tell the truth about its history, and then become a means of helping people to NOT join cults, and educating against them, would be a more interesting church to join.

If there really was a church that told the truth on everything, including the lack of an Exodus, lack of Israelite slaves in Egypt, and spoke honestly about the origin of all religious texts it would be a much more interesting church to be a part of.

Doing good and telling the truth and helping people avoid addictions -- including to things like cults =- would be a much more interesting church to belong to.

Teach people to avoid Authoritarianism. Nobody does that, not even the schools,

Run Emma Run Wrote:
-------------------------
>
> Teach people to avoid
> Authoritarianism. Nobody
> does that, not even the
> schools.


Ever so many of us took a correspondence course!

I think Done & Done is self-taught.