After resigning and before I became an agnostic atheist, I tried different Christian theologies but none of them made sense to me. Perhaps it is my bias growing up LDS and always thinking of God in terms of male and female divine parents with sexual bodies, but the Catholic and Protestant Trinity just sounded like a sexless, body-less, nothing. I think Jefferson said a non-material deity is a nothing. The Stoics I think have a material pantheistic deity. So even in my most exmormon frames of mind, I always thought the Mormon concept of God as a body made more sense and was better theologically.

Anyway, there is a new book out called God: An Anatomy by Francesca Stavrakopoulou. I have a crush on her being an atheist and interested in the Bible like I am. Anyway, her book has nothing to do with Mormonism, except it gives a really good case for Yahweh/Jehovah having a body. Of course, I doubt LDS apologists will recommend Mormons read it because she says a lot of things that would disturb a TBM.

Anyway, I googled her book and Mormon was surprised no one is talking about it. I have to admit that even as an exmo I like the idea of God having a body, so does Francesca Stavrakopoulou. I like it because it supports humanism, in that a God in our bodily image makes our humanity normal and good (not depraved as Fundamentalists put it). The Platonic deity that became traditional Christianity's god, one without parts or passions, devalues our humanity, our animalistic bodies.

Sorry for the duplicate, I did not know it posted, it said the message might be spam and was blocked. So I tried reposting it with a different name since I it would not let me reuse Wonderful.

Are you the author?

So are you (and the book) saying the Old Testament god is an actual literal supernatural god who happens to sometimes have a body?
Or are you (and the book) saying a god with a body symbolizes more of our humanity? We already know cultures define and redefine god with the qualities they value and in the image of themselves.

From your description, it sounds like another book about how to make the idea of god relevant. As an atheist myself, I'm over the mental gymnastics of assigning characteristics to a god, especially the schizophrenic Yahweh.

Rest assured I am not the author of the book God: An Anatomy. The author is a female atheist who like you is very critical of religion. I'm a dude ;).

I just thought as former-Mormons, we all might find it interesting from a non-theistic humanistic perspective.

I just bought the ebook and am listening to the audiobook too because I like her voice (like I said, I have crush on her, as I like intelligent scholarly ladies). She breaks the book up into chapters decribing god's body parts, including his genitalia and sex life (so fun, Augustine would not approve!) and sharing some cool information that academic historical scholars of the Bible know that most of us don't.

I guess I am just a geek who finds this stuff interesting.

I realized I did not answer your other questions:

No her book is NOT saying the Old Testament god is an actual literal supernatural god who happens to sometimes have a body. She shows that the first Hebrews depicted "God" as having a body, then they described their god as hidden from human sight but still very much having a body. Then she explains historically how and when god's body was removed along with his wife.

I (not her) am saying a god with a body symbolizes more of our humanity yes. I think that Plato and then Augustine demonize the human body which has led to Purity Culture in all forms of Christianity which I dislike.

Yes, I agree, we have cultures that define and redefine god with the qualities they value and in the image of themselves. This is only human to do. It's why we have endless superhero movies today covered by Joseph Campbell's hero with a thousand faces. The original Hebrew god was more human and more relatable, but the deity of traditional Christianity now is an unrelatable abstraction, and thus the constant shaming of the human body and Purity Culture, etc.

It is not another book about how to make the idea of god relevant. She is atheist like yourself. She is not doing, as you put, mental gymnastics. She is doing historical scholarship. To learn more about her see: https://humanities.exeter.ac.uk/theology/staff/stavrakopoulou/

Thanks for explaining.

The only god with a body I like is Ganesh.

I think maybe you just like the author talking about sex or something. ;-)

:), I like any woman who talks about sex it's true .. so funny. I'm a man what can I say. If you are a woman and you talk about sex I will like you too, ;) ... She talks a lot about sex and the Bible -- and why in the garden of eden the apple was chosen in later Christian tradition -- in her documentry the Bible's Buried Secrets, see https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1872268/?ref_=tt_urv

I also like her voice in the audiobook. I like her irreverence too, as the video clip above shows. I like her long dark hair and her intelligence. OK, I'm biased.

Please don't tell my bishop of my lustful thoughts.

Down through history many humans have been Gods so of course they had bodies. Horace, Isis, Osiris, Zeus and gang. We don't seem to have anything other than un-attractive religious leaders today--so unimaginative we are.

Much easier on humans to have one that looks like them. Anything else is off-putting.

Strangely enough. . .

The dolphin ghawd swims like a fish, has a blow hole and makes squeaky noises!

The octopus ghawd can open two jars of peanut butter and two jars of strawberry jam AT THE SAME TIME!!

etc., etc.

I just remembered this great short clip, which should assure you of her atheism and she is not doing apologetics, see: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPPY_4s_cps

Got it. Yes, she's a Biblical scholar with some good historical breakdowns of where these myths and stories originated from.

I really wish you had something interesting to say about her and her work, considering it's unlikely anyone here has read her work so has no knowledge of the things she's said. I feel impatient with you and your threads about her, like, "And?" Taking for granted that no one knows what you're talking about, what ideas did you wish to share or discuss from her work?

Here is a review you (blackcoatsdaughter) might find interesting: https://newhumanist.org.uk/articles/5869/book-review-god-an-anatomy

blackcoatsdaughter,

I sent her bio and a video clip, you don't think that content is interesting about her? You don't think it's interesting that in her work she discusses god's genitals and sex life? Her chapters are short, so I don't think you are asking me to copy and paste what she wrote are you? I am aware that it's unlikely anyone here has read her work so has no knowledge of the things she's said so I provided several links to help with that. You did not find my links helpful throughout this thread? I feel bad you are feeling so impatient with threads about her. You don't like her?

I will try not to use words like "And?". But not sure what that means.

You seem upset about something, not sure what? Remember I only wanted to start one thread, but there was a glitch as I explained. Sorry you are annoyed. Here is a digital hug from me with my real body (get it, not an invisible body) ... ;)

Okay, now I think you're disingenuous. By your simpering tone and gratuitous coddling, I don't believe you're here on good faith. What ever you are doing, have at it.

Rest assured I'm totally genuine and acting on good faith. What ulterior motive would I have anyway? I would prefer to call it "cuddling" not coddling. Who doesn't like a cuddle? ;) To each their own.

I've watched a couple of her video clips and think she's impressive. I'll read one of her books.

This one is good, too. Both interviewers overplay her sex appeal, and she's good at marketing herself, but she's very sharp.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vx9Gj67r1Dc

In the latter clip, she mentions an idea I brought up in the Muhammad thread: that God represents the shrinkage of gods. In the Greek context, the Persian and Hindu contexts; in China, and in the Hebrew world, the local pantheon condenses into a single predominant God.

I also appreciate her treatment of ahistorical characters like Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and Moses; and the origins of YHWH, who doesn't appear until about 1,000 BCE. And in the the earlier clip, her description of Christianity as an offshoot of Judaism that would have appalled Jesus; and of Pauline Christianity as an offshoot of Christianity that would have equally upset him are also impressive. I'm making the points flippantly, as she does, but sometimes it's helpful to be hit over the head with the obvious.


More generally, I share her fascination with the Bible

Yea, someone who shares my fascination with the Bible and thinks she's (the author is) impressive and appreciates her scholarship. Big digital hug for you :) ... or a high five if that is too much :) ... I was worried it was just my male bias, glad to see a woman appreciates her just as much.

I sometimes wonder if Paul came to realize that Christ was not going to come back as he expected, if his advice to the Corinthians (that it is better to be celibate so as not to lust after pagan cult prostitutes) would be different. I read an article by a Jesus Seminar dude, titled something like Paul did Not Hate Sex (or something like that) that made a good case that Paul was pro-sex he just objected to pagan temple cult prostitution in Corinth, etc. And E.P. Sanders argues that Paul likely might have changed his mind on the issue of singles and sex, see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZNijc_-4Lk

So I wonder how much of the anti-body stuff is wholly Paul, and not more Augustine. As in, could people be reading into Paul an Augustinian attitude?

Even more interesting is the work of Michael Heiser who talks a lot about Yahweh's Elohim/Divine Council (or holy ones/Sons of God/lesser gods) wanting to have sex with mortal women. So if the angels/gods are sexual and Yahweh is sexual (according to Dr Francesca Stavrakopoulou) and Paul believed his holy ones would gain a physical/pneumatic body composed of heavenly material (just like the sexual angels/gods) according to scholars I have read, then maybe celibacy was not the expected ideal among every early Christian? I mean if Yahweh was sexual, his angels/lesser gods were sexual, then why could't Paul's holy ones be sexual gods?

Anyway, just a thought. From a humanistic perspective this would help diminish the damaging effects of Purity Culture and Catholic priests told to be celibate. As the traumatized Mormon girl Elizabeth Smart is trying to do in ending the shaming of Purity Culture in Mormonism (and Christiandom in general), see https://slate.com/human-interest/2013/05/elizabeth-smart-abstinence-only-sex-education-hurts-victims-of-rape-and-human-trafficking.html

The Watchers. You are describing the Watchers.

In Genesis there are a few verses that refer to the angels who descended to earth to have sex with human women. I believe those were the unions from which giants were born.

The notion of God as sexual doesn't interest me as some of her other ideas. That said, the earliest deities were all sexual. The OT is a collection of tales from earlier religions/mythologies, so I would presume that the gods, be they YHWH, Eloheim (plural, obviously), or the various incarnations of the Canaanite Goddess, were sexual. The earliest versions of the Garden of Eden archaeologically have the Goddess seated under a tree, with a snake in the tree or on the ground, and a smaller male consort in the foreground. It is the union of the Goddess and the divine consort who bring the earth to life every year.

As for early Christianity, there were dozens of those and some of them were apparently orgiastic. Perhaps some of the hostility to sex in the Pauline writings stems from a desire to shut that down.

"Orgiastic" Christians, very cool. Thanks for informing of that, I'm going to Google it to learn more.

Oh, yeah?!

If she's that sharp, why isn't she posting here?

You answer your own question.

... It's a gift!

Judging by the Sistine Chapel, God hits the holy gym every Heavensday. That big guy is ripped. Literally a Mr. Universe.

Not sure if I want him leading a Zumba class though – he never gets tired or needs a break.

It's funny you say that because in the prologue she writes of Yahweh, that "his ancient worshippers saw him [as] a supersized, muscle-bound, good-looking god ..."