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Posted by: Nightingale ( )
Date: January 23, 2022 04:32PM

Mormon Prophet Russell M. Nelson must be smiling into his corn flakes this a.m. with news that The Demon Drink is bad for one’s health, according to a recent scientific study. Just another sign, to them, I imagine, that they’re on the fast track to Heaven. And the drinkers amongst us are doomed.

I read a few articles this morning about the findings:

https://abc17news.com/cnn-health/2022/01/20/no-amount-of-alcohol-is-good-for-the-heart-new-report-says-but-critics-disagree-on-science-2/

Excerpts:

“At the World Heart Federation, we decided that it was imperative that we speak up about alcohol and the damages to health, as well as the social and economic harms, because there is an impression in the population in general, and even among health care professionals, that it is good for the heart,” said Beatriz Champagne, chair of the advocacy committee that produced the report.

“It is not, and the evidence has increasingly shown that there is no level of alcohol consumption that is safe for health,” said Champagne, who is also executive director of the Coalition for Americas’ Health, an organization dedicated to improving health in the Americas.

“…our position is that studies showing a significant cardioprotective effect of alcohol consumption have by-and-large been observational, inconsistent, funded by the alcohol industry, and/or not subject to randomized control. Furthermore, any potential cardioprotective effect is negated by the well-documented risks and harms, rendering our judgment that no amount of consumption can be considered good for heart health.”

“The American Heart Association, which is a member of the federation, says “moderation is key” when it comes to alcohol, which is defined as no more than one drink a day for women and two for men.

AHA: “concluded that if one doesn’t drink alcohol, do not start; and if one does drink alcohol, limit intake.”

“Drinking alcohol increases the risk of several cardiovascular problems, including coronary disease, heart failure, high blood pressure, stroke and aortic aneurysm, according to the report.

Any amount of alcohol, not just heavy drinking, can lead to loss of healthy life, it says.

“Over the past several decades the prevalence of cardiovascular disease has nearly doubled, and alcohol has played a major role in the incidence of much of it,” the report says.

“Cardiovascular disease is a leading cause of death in the world, disproportionately affecting people of low socioeconomic status. In 2019, nearly 2.4 million deaths — not just heart-related — could be attributed to alcohol, the report said. Alcohol negatively affects mental health, as well.

“The World Health Organization has called for a 10% relative reduction in the per capita use of alcohol between 2013 and 2030, but the report said a lack of investment in proven alcohol reduction strategies, in addition to misinformation from the industry, has stymied progress toward that goal.

“The portrayal of alcohol as necessary for a vibrant social life has diverted attention from the harms of alcohol use, as have the frequent and widely publicized claims that moderate drinking, such as a glass of red wine a day, can offer protection against cardiovascular disease,” said Monika Arora, a member of the WHF Advocacy Committee and co-author of the brief, in a news release. “These claims are at best misinformed and at worst an attempt by the alcohol industry to mislead the public about the danger of their product.”

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Ironically, this breaks my heart, in that (1) I enjoy alcoholic drinks and (2) Memories of enjoyable social and family times include alcohol consumption: my annual Christmas sherry with Mom, for instance. That was her favourite, and rare, tipple.

In nursing training, where we learned about health, also ironically our favourite times of the week were spent at a nearby Irish pub where we enjoyed the beer and the band and the rousing music, our reward for hard work and sober times between our outings. Fortunately, it was within walking distance of our residence – no abstinent driver needed.

My dad owned a pub where I worked as a bartender. I felt it was my solemn duty to know what every type of liquor tasted like, as well as every brand of beer we had on tap. So yeah, my one big “sin” in life has been partaking of the demon drink, with relish. (Sometimes enough to be over the limit for safe driving but never enough to cause serious concern or repercussions). I just like the taste of it. All of it.


From a CBS report:

https://www.cbs46.com/news/no-amount-of-alcohol-is-good-for-heart-health-new-study-finds/article_924cef59-2460-560c-8840-7569d3923177.html

“The report called out claims that moderate drinking, such as a glass of red wine a day, can offer protection against heart disease.

“These claims are at best misinformed and at worst an attempt by the alcohol industry to mislead the public about the danger of their product,” the co-author of the report said.

“There are plenty of ways to promote heart health including controlling cholesterol and weight, and regular exercise.

“The problem is that there are people who think, ‘Well, gee, if I just have a drink a day, I’m protected from heart disease,’ and that’s fundamentally wrong,” Nissen said.”


Article by Dr. Jonathan Reiner, Professor of Medicine and Surgery at George Washington:

https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/22/opinions/alcohol-heart-health-reiner/index.html

Excerpts:

“Several years ago, at the end of a clinic visit, a long-time patient with end-stage heart disease who was nearing the end of his life asked me if it was OK to drink some wine.

“The patient was a physician, and he knew what most lay people do not: Despite the widespread belief a little alcohol is good for your heart, it isn't. I thought for a moment, and told him, "Only good wine."

“For thousands of years, alcohol, particularly wine, has been used for medicinal purposes. The ancient Greek physician Hippocrates promoted wine for various purposes, including reducing fevers and dressing wounds. Maimonides, the 12th century scholar, rabbi and physician also extolled the health benefits of wine in moderation. During Prohibition in the early 20th century, it was common for physicians to prescribe medicinal alcohol, which was legally dispensed at pharmacies, for ailments ranging from cancer to depression.

“This past week, the World Heart Federation issued a policy stating no level of alcohol consumption is safe for the heart. The ironically-named Dr. Beatriz Champagne who chaired the advocacy committee which produced the report said, "In brief, our position is that studies showing a significant cardioprotective effect of alcohol consumption have by-and-large been observational, inconsistent, funded by the alcohol industry, and/or not subject to randomized control. Furthermore, any potential cardioprotective effect is negated by the well-documented risks and harms, rendering our judgment that no amount of consumption can be considered good for heart health."

“In addition to its carcinogenic properties, alcohol is also a cardiotoxin, and chronic heavy consumption can weaken the ability of the heart to contract, ultimately leading to potentially fatal congestive heart failure. Even brief episodes of binge-drinking can precipitate atrial fibrillation, a condition in which the heart rate increases and beats out of rhythm.

“If you drink alcohol, do so because you enjoy it, not because you believe it's good for you. The most recent data suggests it is not. And if you do enjoy alcoholic beverages, drink in moderation because there is abundant data showing the more you drink, the greater the risks to your health.”

Dr. Reiner concludes:

“As for my patient who asked about drinking wine, several months after his death, a package was delivered to my house. It was brought by his wife, who was honoring his final instructions. In the box was a case of "only good wine." There are still a few bottles left, and each time I drink one, I savor each sip, think of him, and smile.”

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I fall in with Dr. Reiner’s attitude: Don’t freak out about it either way. And I love him for not telling his patient to forego the wine.

While the pandemic reportedly has resulted in increased levels of alcohol consumption among many, I have been tee-total due to not gathering. My desire to avoid the killer virus is much, much greater than any longing to party. I’m fortunate, I know, to be only a social drinker, not one with an imperative to consume alcohol.

I also want to point out that many factors enter into decisions about giving accurate medical advice. As mentioned above, the good doctor, Champagne, states: “…studies showing a significant cardioprotective effect of alcohol consumption have by-and-large been observational, inconsistent, funded by the alcohol industry, and/or not subject to randomized control.
Furthermore, any potential cardioprotective effect is negated by the well-documented risks and harms.” Before reaching a conclusion either way about the subject under study, they considered these issues, among others: procedures used during the study, consistency of results, and funding source.

Studying products and procedures to determine safety and efficacy requires rigour, reliable techniques, knowledge, testing, recommended methods, reproducible consistent and positive results, objectivity, impartiality, and reliable and properly trained testers, among other components of a scientific and honest study. One positive aspect cannot honestly be extracted and recommended while ignoring negative aspects or results. And it’s a balancing act: with a mix of positive and potentially negative effects, does one outweigh another? More negative = not recommended while more positive may = recommended.

I’m thinking of these study requirements and the scrutiny of results in a wider sense than just this one issue of alcohol: COVID vaccines and medications, for instance. One negative effect (say, arm soreness after vaccine) doesn’t automatically determine that it’s harmful, especially if positive outcomes are clearly observed. Some people, unfortunately many with great influence over others, are not learned or experienced in scientific methods and study and so they mislead, with great ill effect, by spouting off about issues they are not qualified to expound upon and even seem to take delight in being naysayers, which just further displays their ignorance in the field.

Back to the demon drink: So, alcohol isn’t cardioprotective and it’s also potentially carcinogenic. My intent in consuming it is for enjoyment, not for my health. It only remains to determine how much and how often presents an acceptable level of risk for me. I never consumed with the good of my heart in mind anyway, shall we say.

The absolute screamingly funny irony is that I would join a church that revels in its injunction against alcohol. You would think that alone would have inspired me to run away as fast as I could when the missionaries were pressuring me to jump into their font. But I was clueless. They can put that on my gravestone re this and many other things. When my friends kept inviting me to dinner and the missionaries were always there I thought it was just because my friends were so nice they liked to feed people. Of course, I got all involved and eventually, stupidly, regrettably, succumbed to the lure of the tank. I was swayed by their insistence on how spiritual and wonderful and inspiring and all-knowing life would be after baptism. What a dope. The baptism assembly and procedure and outcomes still rank up there as among the worst of my life’s experiences. I’ve described all that several times before.

The funny part is that, as I said, I would join a tee-total church. The positive side is that I had no problem with not drinking alcohol for a couple of years. So that’s all right then. :)

When I read the articles this morning about the latest medical conclusions relating to alcohol, of course I immediately thought well, the Mormon prophet will be happy. They’ll be able to say they were right. Quick, let’s all dive in. Again. Or not. Obviously, it’s just a happy accident for Joe and his successors that they’re on the right side on this one. Even members of the strict JW sect drink alcohol “in moderation”. It’s even in the Bible that it’s OK. A little wine for one’s stomach’s sake, it says in 1 Timothy 5:23. Good ol’ Tim. I’m guessing it’s not in the Mormon Bible. I only ever skimmed the thing, liked the verse “Man is that he might have joy” that I thought was so poetic and lovely and inspiring, and that’s about all she wrote. The patriarch even included that verse in my patriarchal blessing which, of course, the dope also known as Nightingale, thought was inspired from on high. Turns out one of the ward missionaries told him ahead of time. Honest much? (I forget if they’re called ward missionaries – after they get home from their missions and get a calling as a ward missionary? Or something like that).

I was hardly discriminating enough when it came to choosing whether to take the baptism challenge or not. I wish I’d chosen the “or not” but oh well, you live and learn. And through my Mormon interlude I got to commune with all of you through these years. A happy side effect from my momentary Mormon delirium.

As for the demon drink: I’m in. The next time we’re back to normal and the watering holes open up fully and safely once more. I’ll be sure to take a cab. And my heart will be happy.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/23/2022 04:49PM by Nightingale.

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Posted by: I ( )
Date: January 23, 2022 05:39PM

I drink I'll have a think!

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: January 23, 2022 06:15PM

I've been alcohol-free since my last drink!


No, seriously, I haven't had a drink in at least three years...

I'm like a saint, or something!

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Posted by: Brother Of Jerry ( )
Date: January 23, 2022 07:07PM

I tend to be extremely skeptical of the claims that eggs are good/bad for you, or alcohol, or coffee, or whatever.

The reality always seems to turn out to be that they make practically no difference at all. Some studies show they are a little bit bad for you. The difference is so small that another study with slightly different data shows that they are a little bit good for you.

As long as you consume alcohol/eggs/coffee in moderation [barring serious medical problems like allergies or addiction], don't worry about it. Large amounts of anything can be a problem. Moderate amounts rarely are.

For most of us, "eat less and exercise" is about all the advice we really need. No money in trying to sell a book or publish a paper that says that, though!

[edit to add:] Michael Pollan has quite the cottage industry of writing books that are a bit more detailed than "eat less and exercise", but now a whole lot. "Eat real (i.e. unprocessed), mostly vegetables, not too much" is his prescription. I can't argue with that.

So I guess money can be made with that message. ;)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/23/2022 07:12PM by Brother Of Jerry.

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Posted by: Brother Of Jerry ( )
Date: January 23, 2022 07:17PM

Utah's Demon Drink is a 44 oz trashcan-sized soda with about 36 teaspoons of sugar (that's not a typo) and spiked with a quarter cup of half-and-half.

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Posted by: tumwater ( )
Date: January 23, 2022 07:41PM

Brother Of Jerry Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Utah's Demon Drink is a 44 oz trashcan-sized soda
> with about 36 teaspoons of sugar (that's not a
> typo) and spiked with a quarter cup of
> half-and-half.


A few years ago, I stopped at a corner convenience store for gas and while paying a middle-aged person was walking out with a 64 ounce 'BigGulp' fully caffeinated drink.

I mentioned to the clerk that I'd be on a sugar high for the rest of the day and be in rest room to boot if I tried drinking that much sugar.

The clerk shook his head and said the customer comes in every day for a 'Bigulp' and commutes to Seattle, about 60 miles. At that time a commuter traffic trip would have been about 2 hours.

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Posted by: Susan I/S ( )
Date: January 23, 2022 08:20PM

Meh. I am not going to get worked up about it. At least it isn't tea. I found a solution to your Brown Betty problem. Works a trick.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09HGR2RHX?ref=ppx_yo2_dt_b_product_details&th=1

Did you know there is such a thing as chocolate black tea? I just found out about it and now I am obsessed!

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Posted by: Kentish ( )
Date: January 23, 2022 09:00PM

Why spoil perfectly good tea with chocolate, or any flavor come to that? One of the most dreadful almost decisions of WW2 was a proposal to cut the weekly tea ration from 3 to 2 ounces. The war might have been lost and Churchill run out on s rail lol.

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Posted by: Susan I/S ( )
Date: January 28, 2022 01:20AM

LOL Kentish. It is hard to explain, it is more like smelling dark chocolate while you drink tea. It is, but it isn't but it is. I am going to experiment on a couple of friends to see if they can even tell. It's not sweet at all.

https://www.harney.com/products/valentine-s-blend?variant=29491670598

I ran into it because I bought this one on a whim. I admit, it was for the pretty tin and I wanted to know what the hell a tea sachet was. I liked it so much I ordered a pound. And since there was a sale I tried the Valentines and a few others.

https://www.harney.com/products/tower-of-london?variant=2949165331
8

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Posted by: Soft Machine ( )
Date: January 28, 2022 03:42AM

I'm with Kentish on this. I want my tea (with milk) to taste of... tea!

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Posted by: Lethbridge Reprobate ( )
Date: January 23, 2022 10:25PM

Was just about to pour myself a dark rum and diet Coke...still might

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Posted by: caffiend ( )
Date: January 23, 2022 11:01PM


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Posted by: Arkay ( )
Date: January 23, 2022 11:34PM

It doesn't make that much difference in my life, my alcohol consumption is nominal. I like a Bloody Mary now and then, same with an occasional beer, usually when I'm cooking. Other than that, it's Pepsi.

I would still have made a lousy Mormon.

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Posted by: oldpobot ( )
Date: January 24, 2022 12:05AM

NG, you should have stuck with the JWs! They don't mind a drink! Helps them deal with their miserable lives I suspect.

I decided years ago that my particular poison would be one beer a night, and a glass of wine with dinner. Every night.

(On Friday nights, I allow myself one extra beer!)

I would switch to non-alcoholic drinks if I could be bothered doing the research and finding equivalent tastes, as I don't drink for any kind of buzz or high - just love the taste and the habit.

Also many fond memories of nights out in bars or pubs, where drink has its place as a social lubricator.

I also have friends with severe alcohol addiction problems and have two teenage sons ready to be guided through the issue...

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: January 24, 2022 12:17AM

It's a difficult balance to strike. . .

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Posted by: GNPE ( )
Date: January 24, 2022 12:43PM

My bad, I thought this thread would be about COFFEE...

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: January 28, 2022 01:38AM

I thought it was going to be about Coca Cola.

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Posted by: Susan I/S ( )
Date: January 28, 2022 02:19AM

LOL, now you know better than to get me started on Coke! No doubt I will go to my grave still bitter.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: January 28, 2022 02:31AM

Just don't put so much lemon in it!

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Posted by: thedesertrat1 ( )
Date: January 24, 2022 01:28PM

I have been around 86 years now
I occasionally have a rum and coke If it kills me so be it

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Posted by: GNPE ( )
Date: January 31, 2022 01:56AM

Is there any definitive (love that word!) research about carbonated drinks / cola / mountain dew?

Yes, I'm talkin' peer reviewed, methodology at 100% reliable

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