Well, just got a call from the ward clerk/ bishop's secretary/ scheduler guy, or whatever his calling is! He left a message on my answering machine asking if I could come in and see the bishop this sunday. UMMMM NO! This is gonna get ugly, I can feel it already!

Wait. No. Scratch that. The opposite of what I said.

At least with the Bishop. Your family may be a different story, but the Bishop and other church officials can be handled with resignation and firm "not interested don't call me again" responses to their calls and visits.

Feel free to say, "No thank you" -- repeatedly if needed.

Never forget, in this country, religion is a voluntary activity. :-)

If it were me, I wouldn't do it.

I think you'll handle this well or it wouldn't be happening. It can be a roller coaster ride as you leave a cult, but it's much better than the alternative of staying under its control.

Mormons don't have Danites these days and peer pressure isn't as bad as most of us anticipate. You can ride it out or stand up and bluster. You're the boss. They're not.

I think you'll be ok since you have a nevermo wife. Lots of us stuck with a NOM or TBM spouse have to tread carefully. Yes, tell the bishop to leave you alone. You have all the cards! congrats man!

rinse and repeat.

First, ignore the message on the answering machine.
Yeah, it is hard to do...

Next let the machine get all your calls.

If the Bishop gets in your face simply tell him that you need time and that you are perfectly willing to resign from the church if he will not leave you alone.

It could get ugly, but you are not his property.
He has no powers from Heaven and is only a church boss.

And last but not least- if you must meet with the Bishop make him come to your home and speak outside on the lawn. You'd be surprised how empowering that is. 'cuz if you are in his office, you are in his court. If he is on your turf, he is on your terms.

they could go partway toward the desk and say they won't be staying.

Tell the bish, "I just stopped in to let you know that I'm not interested in a formal meeting with you. I've decided to take some time off from church and wanted to thank you for whatever you've done for me and this ward in the past. As I said I won't be staying. Enjoy your day." Then walk out, close the door, and drive home.

It's a matter of taking charge. If necessary, any one of us can say goodbye and hang up a phone, leave a room, or close our front door and leave the other person in mid-sentence." That's real and actual free agency in action.

He is nothing but a bellhop. Tell the bellhop you are not interested in a meeting. Not in his office, not anywhere. They empower themselves with meetings. Don't give in.

I had an executive secretary call me once after I'd been absent from church for months saying the same thing. I asked him what the bishop wanted to talk to me about. He said he didn't know probably a calling or something. I told the guy to find out what the bishop wanted and then call me back. Guess what? No one ever called me back! hehehe

Fucking Christ! THIS is what a grown man is reduced to!!!??!!!
On another thread, a woman is being berated and preached to by her husband (the "priesthood holder" aka "the guy with the dick").

I'm appalled and speachless.









































Is anybody listening?

In another post, you stated that you told your bishop that you are resigning your callings. However, it is not clear to me whether you still plan to attend church meetings or whether you intend to go completely inactive.

If the latter, DO NOT meet with the bishop at all. As Don Bagley says, meetings are all about empowering THEM (and disempowering you!) Do not apologize for your choice or explain or justify it. Merely state it if absolutely necessary, e.g. if you run into your bishop at the gas station and he comes up to you.

Examples:

Bishop: Why have you stopped attending?
Elder B: I'm not choosing to be active at this time. (0r:) I will not be participating in church events at this time.
Bishop: What has happened? Have you sinned?
Elder B.: Thank you for respecting my choices. Have a great day! (or) (pleasantly) Thank you for your interest; and I do not choose to discuss it. Enjoy your day!

It is likely that the bishop or his counselors will drop by your home uninvited, in hopes of forcing you into talking with them. This is coercive and invasion of your private space. Talk to your wife and plan your response in advance. You & DW have NO obligation to answer your doorbell, just because someone uninvited chooses to show up and ring it!

Good luck, Elderborracho! Keep us posted.

I had my own reasons for going to meet with the Bishop and then the SP. In my case I wanted a communication made up the line of command that I would always keep an open mind/heart to the church giving some official guidance on the BoM historicity issues. I get more satisfaction over doing that now than I ever get from the fact that I later officially resigned. Even more I wanted to get verbal confirmation from the SP that no official guidance had ever been given to him through official channels of this sort. In addition I confessed just about anything I had ever done which could possibly be used by TBM(s) as an excuse/reason for me leaving because I was a sinner. And then I went forward out of that last interview with the SP feeling super-good and free that I could withdraw from subjecting myself to the church's power anymore. Well it was late January 2001 and I had made up my mind to set a General Conference deadline for them to start giving some serious official guidance. Well of course the April 2001 conference came/went. Once it went I felt free to no longer subject myself to LDS inc. rules on anything. And I haven't :)

How has the church done this past decade on coming clean? ZILCH. And I'm not holding my breath that anything will change this coming decade either. They're just a stupid mind-numbing cult.

Just for the record ..... Why you'd attend or not attend church is none of the f***ing Bishop's f***ing business. What is his business is for his church to start being completely honest with its membership about its history/doctrines. Until then they can shove huge daggers and all the BS they try to dish out up their own a**es.

Seriously, you have just as much business in making sure your Bishop is watching enough porn and going to strip clubs & smoking joints and making him feeling guilty for falling short as he as tell you to go to church and try to put you on guilt trips galore. You don't have to take any of that BS from them.

Who cares what a bishop or SP wants.
Ignore them.

This so-called church is not worth your time and effort.

You don't have to explain yourself to anyone.


Your life can only get better from now on.
Your weekends are free to spend with your wife and relax, and you just got a 10% raise.

I recently resigned. When Bishop called I told him to gather his wife and children and get out of the LDS church b/c it's a cult. I told him JS was a predator with a 14 year old wife and the church is not true. He said,"well, thank you for the information". I said to feel free to call me if he'd like to hear more. I'm thinking he may not be calling anytime soon - but I wish he would. Take your power and use your voice!

I love that approach! Especially the part about 'gather your wife and children'. Well done!

He could meet you at one of these places....

Everyone here is so hilarious! Your responses are great! BTW, I am not meeting with him. My email to him was a resignation from my callings and my home teaching assignments, as well as the request for no home teaching of my family. In the email I told him I would send him a "follow up" email as to my reasoning to my "madness." It will be very lengthy and extremely honest. Starting with ol Joe and his "hat tricks" through present day. My "callings" are so demanding that there are activities or at least some type of communication everyday. I just needed to give them some "heads up" that I am just not going to participate anymore. I just haven't had the time to compose the "follow up."

I wouldn't bother with your reasons. He doesn't care. And it might prevent you from eventually (perhaps) exiting the church on your own terms.

Bishops do not care about members’ issues with the church. There is never a valid reason for being "inactive," in the eyes of a bishop.

Save your breath for a member who is questioning and who therefore will be interested in what evidence you have found.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/13/2011 04:38PM by WiserWomanNow.

1. There is no disciplinary that can be enacted by the church for simply being inactive, refusing to go to church, refusing callings and refusing to meet with the Bishop.

When I stopped going to church, i flat out stopped, didn't return any calls regarding home teaching or missionary work etc, and when I got a call from the bishop i simply ignored it. It was rather amusing to think about the home teaching that was not getting done, the calling that was absolutely void of any success and all the time they would wasting asking about me and toiling over my salvation in trying to reactivate and figure out what happened to me.

Both fortunately and unfortunately the refusal to contact those that wanted to talk to me led to their unannounced visits. Those that have visited are tolerable and I have decided to lead them along that I will potentially reactivate and gain a testimony again without ever making any actual progress. Now, there are many that would absolutely HATE the idea of the church showing up and bugging you, but I find ways to make it entertaining and I am not ready to resign or make my apostasy public because of the eventual nuclear holocaust of familial drama that surely must come to pass.

I have had such absolute gems of idiocy, ignorance and laughable logic shared with me that I am willing to accept the annoyance of random visits, just to hear some of the dumbest things uttered by man. I will share one...

One of the counselors was visiting and was telling me about how he knew the church was true. Get this... He had decided he was not going to attend church one sunday, when given the opportunity, and upon skipping church he felt... horrible... He KNEW then that the church was true, that attending church was what God wanted him to do. Thats right, all the criticism, error, doubt and questioning he could ever pose against the church was answered because he missed church 1 time in his life. Needless to say he never willfuly missed a day of church again and felt that I should feel the same way after he shared his heartfelt testimony. I was overjoyed at the stupidity and yes I get these kinds of stories almost EVERY visit.

So I was raised in a mormon family, and long been inactive. Now I'm at a crossroads in life and wondering about where to go so decided to revisit the idea of the church as an adult with online research (google) and this is all very confusing to me...

1. If you believe in something, why avoid confrontation. If your right he cannot change you. If he convinces you you're wrong that means he's helped you find out what's right. So why not have a meeting to affirm your position?
2. In response to the whole "[This is what a grown man is reduced to]" sentiment, see my first note. If your afraid to meet with someone who's religious beliefs are no longer your own, and who has no other affiliation with you what so ever (e.g. he can't fire you from your paid job), then its not him being pushy that's the problem...Its you. You have to stand up for yourself.
3. Since when is someone from a social/religious group calling to check up being pushy...I mean if you were on a municipal softball team and stopped showing up to practice, would you react like this when the coach called to see whats up. Or if he said he wanted to meet for pancakes so he could try to convince you to play through the season? Wouldn't it be worse if you stopped showing up and nobody cared. That's the kind of feeling that leads to depression and suicide isn't it? The feeling that nobody cares?
4. Ever meet a person who believe's they are a witch? Yeah, every religion has its crazies (i.e. pagan's who think they're witches and atheists who think they're level 5 dwarves in D&D and real life) So is pin pointing one loon here or there really proof of anything? I mean shouldn't it be about the group as a whole? Would you call every baseball player a steriod freak becausemany teams have confirmed players on their teams have used them? You gotta be a little better than that.
5. And a lot bigger person than to childishly ag on someone who you think is wrong just to laugh behind their back. That's called being a bully, and its pretty sad you would admit to being one with pride. I think that was the moral of the story for "Dinner for Schmucks" wasn't it?

I don't know a lot, but there are some very confused and angry individuals on this website who should probably seek counseling. I don't really know if a life spent in fear of those who try to reach out to you, and anger towards past friends is really anything more than a symptom denial. By all means question the church, and everything else anyone tells you. Just don't let self denial be your motive in life.

You sanctimoneous, self righteous half wit.

Now that sentence may indicate to you that it is I who needs counselling, on the other hand, I may be right...

“and this is all very confusing to me...”
I believe you.
“So why not have a meeting to affirm your position?”
Bad question based on already known information. His position is to be questioned at a meeting he did not invite. Nobody is going to change anybody’s mind at this meeting. Both already know they are right. elderborracho is not interested in “you’rewrongimonies”.

“3. Since when is someone from a social/religious group calling to check up being pushy...I mean if you were on a municipal softball team and stopped showing up to practice, would you react like this when the coach called to see whats up. Or if he said he wanted to meet for pancakes so he could try to convince you to play through the season? Wouldn't it be worse if you stopped showing up and nobody cared. That's the kind of feeling that leads to depression and suicide isn't it? The feeling that nobody cares?”

Bad analogy. These situations are light years apart and you know it. One is about religion and the demand to believe the other is about sports. GA’s do these same kinds of bad BS analogies in the primary talks at conference.


“5. And a lot bigger person than to childishly ag on someone who you think is wrong just to laugh behind their back. That's called being a bully, and its pretty sad you would admit to being one with pride. I think that was the moral of the story for "Dinner for Schmucks" wasn't it?”

An assumption at best. I have no doubt that giggles and laughs were happening during their little discussions. I have done it myself with members in my home and I theirs. No need to wait till backs are turned. Also how will they ever hear reasonable arguments outside the bubble of church if not in a venue just like jaxxtraxx provided. It may be the first cracks they get that begin to let in the light of reason.

“I don't know a lot, but there are some very confused and angry individuals on this website who should probably seek counseling.”

Uh huh, well here I go with what Stumbling said.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/13/2011 04:32PM by AmIDarkNow?.

idkmeiguess Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Since when is someone from a social/religious group calling to check up being pushy...

Maybe one or two calls or visits, sure. Beyond that, yes, it is being pushy.

The trouble with the Morg is that you could say, "I'm completely fine, thanks for asking. I just don't want to attend church right now" and that wouldn't be adequate enough for them. Oh, no, they would need to pester you to death, to ask questions, to call and visit repeatedly, to leave cookies, to sic the missionaries on you, and to track you down even if you've moved and obviously don't want to be contacted. You would also be the subject of more than one church meeting.

In the mainstream Christian world (or any other world, really) this would be considered harassment of the highest order.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/13/2011 06:55PM by summer.

But why does this person have to respond on any level to the bishop?

Seriously, stop by the bishop's office to tell him he's not going to have a meeting with him? Uh, you just did! And if you walk through that door into his office, it's going to be confrontational.

I learned something awhile ago that has eliminated a lot of stress from my life.

You are not obligated to engage with anyone on any level for any reason. You ALWAYS have the right to walk away. And you never have to explain your decision to refuse to engage. Doing so means you just engaged.

No, you don't need to return phone calls.
No, you don't need to answer the door.
No, you don't need to read emails or letters sent to you. You can just hit "delete" w/o opening or toss it into the garbage without opening it. (This has been the most empowering thing I've ever learned. I NEVER open or read anything from anyone that I know is going to be negative/confrontational or guilt inducing. It seems impossible to do, but once you do it once, it is SOOOO FREEING!)
No, you don't need to eat the cupcakes the RS left on your doorstep to "love bomb" you back. You can: 1--throw them away, 2--feed them to the dog, 3--regift them to your next door neighbor--anonymously. Eating or otherwise consuming anything that was "loved bombed" to you will come at a cost--lots of guilt and self-doubt about your decision.
Yes, if cornered in public by someone you don't want to engage with, you can simply turn your back without another word or backward glance and walk away. The person will be so shocked, they will not follow you. I promise.

If you feel the bishop will confront/challenge or try to control you if you go to church, here's an idea. Don't go to church. Why would you want to spend one minute in a church where you feel stress instead of spiritual fulfillment, anyway?

It is perfectly ok to turn around and walk away and never look back. It's also the easiest thing to do. This does not need to get "ugly."

Because they are given to elicit feelings of obligation in the recipient.

These are Mormons we're talking about. The entire attraction of the religion is based on obligation and guilt.

I'm sure there are plenty of people who could eat the cupcakes and move along. I would bet plenty of Mormons are still struggling with duty and responsibility and would feel they "owed" the giver something.

I know I would and I was never a Mormon. (Just raised Catholic but not the same.)

elder drunk!!