This is a doubly sad series of incidences.

About 20 years ago, my NeverMo mother warned a TBM that their mutual friend (TBM too), with her 8 kids, is in a precarious situation by having no education and no work history in case something were to happen to her husband. TBM shrugged off my mother's concerns. Not too long later, the breadwinning father was diagnosed with brain cancer and ended up dying from it.

After his death settled, my mom would talk to this friend about how bad of a situation this widow and her 8 children are in. Friend never really commented about the tragic position the widow and her kids are in, because it is what TSCC preaches--load up on kids and the mother staying at home.

Well, as fortune would have it, a month ago, this TBM friend's son-in-law was diagnosed with a very aggressive form of brain cancer (frontal lobe, diffuse glioma). It's huge. And guess what? This TBM's daughter has multiple kids (2), no education and no work history.

How do you have kids, especially daughters, and don't prepare them to take on the world? And encourage them to assume these vulnerable, precarious situations where you're one freak accident or diagnosis away from financial ruin?

What is wrong with these people? Don't they not learn from situations? I advised my mother to pull back from this friend, because this friend doesn't learn and think on her own (plus the family started a fund for the son-in-law's cancer treatment and didn't even invite my mom to contribute).

I had a woman business professor at UVU who used to say "a man is not a plan" to her female students. Some of us took her advise, others did not.

Luckily, my convert daughter and TBM son-in-law are insisting that their girls go to college and have careers.

He saw first hand what can happen when his TBM dad died young leaving a wife with four young children and no way to support them. The children (including TBM son-in-law) were farmed out to family members so she could go back to school and get a teaching certificate. TBM SIL was lucky as the family he went to genuinely cared about him while his brothers were viewed free labor and just another mouth to feed. TBM SIL thrived but his brothers did not.

not logged in Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I had a woman business professor at UVU who used
> to say "a man is not a plan" to her female
> students. Some of us took her advise, others did
> not.
>
> Luckily, my convert daughter and TBM son-in-law
> are insisting that their girls go to college and
> have careers.
>
> He saw first hand what can happen when his TBM dad
> died young leaving a wife with four young children
> and no way to support them. The children
> (including TBM son-in-law) were farmed out to
> family members so she could go back to school and
> get a teaching certificate. TBM SIL was lucky as
> the family he went to genuinely cared about him
> while his brothers were viewed free labor and just
> another mouth to feed. TBM SIL thrived but his
> brothers did not.


I like that quote: " a man is not a plan." I will try to commit it to memory, since I deal with many Mormon and low-income students whose educational aspirations don't go beyond high school.

"Older, but not wiser" is a quote of mine about so many Mormon parents.

in a career, but I didn't get married until I was 27. I always wanted to be a secretary. So not much education, but my mother had worked at the bank before she got married and I loved hearing her stories, so I went to work as a secretary and I loved my job.

So I've been a single mother and doing medical transcription for 35 years and I earn good money. I somehow in my depression and suicidality hung onto the house and raised my kids. My daughter has a degree, didn't get married until 33, and is a manager for Princess Cruises in Alaska. She earns really good money. Only difficult part for me is she and her husband are in Alaska from March to end of September every year. He works at home for a company here in Cache Valley.

One sister has a degree and the other sister worked for SS and has a great pension. She now works for IRS and has great benefits and only works part-time.

What we were taught was a good work ethic. We were raised on a farm (we didn't live on it). We worked HARD. All of us have been successful, especially my brother who only got a GED.

I was emphasizing the degree in the original post, because this TBM's husband has at least one advanced degree and this TBM finished her degree at 51-years-old now that the kids are out of the house.

Do you know what's sad? This TBM's accountant husband told me that "a little debt" from student loans is good when I asked about his kids applying for scholarships and this TBM mother finished her degree only to substitute teach and is now hawking life insurance policies to everyone.

I wouldn't get a bachelors degree just to substitute teach or sell insurance.

How could there be when the religion these people believe in continues to insist that males should do all of the outside work and that females should take care of the home and raise their many children.

When I was working as a braille proofreader for the disability office at Arizona State University almost two decades ago, one of the sighted transcribers I worked with was an LDS woman who had recently married and was now pregnant. She soon announced that she would be resigning both her position with the office and her position as a college student to become a stay-at-home mom. When I asked her how she thought her life would go, she didn't hesitate to answer. It was planned out. She and her LDS husband would have at least six kids, she would stay home and raise them, and by the time the kids were all grown, she and her husband would retire in luxury.

I really didn't have the heart to tell this woman that life can't be planned in exact detail like that. Yes, there can and should be goals, but life has a way of throwing things at you that you didn't expect to happen and that you have to counteract or respond to, lest you be thrown off balance. But the religion these people believe, Mormonism, doesn't teach these things--it just teaches that couples should marry young, raise a large family inside the church, and die together in holy bliss for whatever (I can't think of the name) kingdom is waiting beyond.

How, you ask.

Because God said to have as many kids as possible to turn Utah into a state and to have men and women burdened to the point of breaking to bring about the kingdom of God...and to make you know, more tithe payers and missionaries.

in 1993, heavenly father read an article in TIME magazine about how damaging this practice was and hoe it was riving depression, poverty, xanax abuse and worse of all, diminished tithing receipts. Heavely father decided that this made his church look bad.

Up until then, no job, education or need sohuld get in the way of proving to God just how faithful couples should be. Mom in the home cooking babies in the over and pops making money for the church.

Heavenly father quickly told his leaders, that how many and when you have children is strictly between couples and their heavenly father. Suddenly women were to prepare and get an education, so if called upon, they could become the tithe payers.

Families who were burdened, I mean blessed, prior to this eternal revelation could find solace in the fact that Heavenly father would minimize and deny he ever said to have as many kids as fast as possible.

Mormonism AND brain cancer. That’s rough.

I always thought mormonism WAS brain cancer.

Back a hundred years ago or so, a man *was* the plan. Both of my maternal grandparents lost their first spouses to the 1917-18 Spanish flu pandemic. My grandmother went to work in a factory for two years, and I can only assume that her children were living with family members. Eventually she met my grandpa, who with children of his own, was similarly in need of a spouse. It worked for them, but it was in many ways a marriage of necessity for them both.

My mother's WWII Rosie-the-Riveter skills really didn't transfer to a similar job after my father passed. She was in her 40s at the time. Although they had saved a lot of money, it was never meant to last another 40 years. She worked at various jobs, but life was often a struggle.

My parents finally figured it out by the time I came along. That, and times had changed. They wanted me to go to college to get a skill so that I could always support myself no matter what. I firmly believe that even SAHMs should have an education, skill, or trade so that they can support themselves and their children no matter what. And IMO unless a family is bringing in a great deal of money (or has a huge amount of life insurance,) having a large number of children is probably not a good idea.

Also, it's very sad when your daughters can't string together a coherent sentence on a Go Fund Me page. One daughter wrote things like, "cancer sucks but so does money" (WTF?) and used the word "EMINSE" for immense. (Her capped letters, not mine.)

These grammatical errors distract from the message. I was reading the plea for financial assistance and got caught up on the grammar and wondering how someone with a high school degree and spell check on her computer can't find the right spelling for the word immense.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/05/2022 05:24PM by newcomer.

From the gist of this line of messages, one can infer that if the sole income earner, with a family of several minor children, were to die the family would be left in poverty.

In the U.S., the family would be entitled to social security payments that can be a long ways from absolute poverty.

Someone more familiar with the processes and procedures of the SSA could shed light on what payments a family could receive.


https://blog.ssa.gov/if-you-are-young-and-lose-a-parent/



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/06/2022 01:06AM by tumwater.

When did SSA payments become a golden parachute?

Social Security payments can help, but they are not a cure-all. My father died when I was 14, and our family got a generous payout because he was an engineer not too far off of retirement. My mom got a check, and she also got a check on my behalf (I think that transferred to me directly once I turned 18.) At least half of my college bills were paid for, in an age when public schooling was a whole lot cheaper than it is now.

As for my mom, it helped for a while. But eventually inflation far outpaced the monthly check. It was not a good long-term plan. I can tell you that not having the education for a career or skilled trade really hurt my mom in the long run. If it were not for the fact that I was living with her for the last ten years of her life, she likely would have been in public housing.

My parents had built up a substantial amount of savings as well, while my dad was alive. But over time, inflation eroded those savings. It would have helped immensely if my mom had had a financial education, but traditionally women were discouraged from acquiring that as well. She was sold a terrible investment by a financial advisor, which over time, contributed to her woes. This is why I advocate for everyone learning as much as possible about personal finances, because relying solely on an "expert" is not a good idea.

Just the facts. A woman needs a plan, and relying solely on a man and/or Social Security is not a good plan.

As a totally blind person, I received Supplemental Security Income (SSI) during the time I was in college and my first job and Social Security Security Disability Income (SSDI) after my dad died. If you live in a house that is already paid off and there is somebody else in the residence who is working, then either income source adds a little extra icing on the cake. On the other hand, if you live independently in a house you rent with children you have to support, then this source of income will not be enough to tide you over, especially in the long term.

Social security death annuity benefits are tiny. How can you make the comparison? Tiny! I received them myself, so I know. Like "newcomer" says, it ain't a golden parachute.