I have a friend who lives in the middle of 'apply country' Washington, she's not LDS or Mormon (te he); she laments that land formerly was an apple orchard has been re-purposed to growing wine grapes...

To me at least, this borders on a moral question regarding the use of land & other resources (transport) for alcohol instead of a crop that provides needed nutrition

Yes, I've heard the arguments; 'it's up to the land-owner', and that wine has a (scant) nutritional value.

Am I 'over the edge' in thinking the way I do?

It's not the first time land has been repurposed, and I don't see any shortage of apples in the stores or in school cafeterias.

Wine is a pleasant addition to life. Even Jesus appeared to have no moral objection to it.

there's not an infinite amount of land suitable for agriculture.

actions like the one I mentioned should push the value/price of apples up.

The global supply of apples is about 90 million metric tonnes, so about 200 billion pounds of fruit, per annum. To affect the price level in the slightest, you'd need to increase/decrease the yearly supply by probably a billion apples. The loss of your neighborhood orchard will therefore not affect prices of apples (or grapes) in the least.

What it may do is increase the income generated by the land and thereby delay the date at which it is purchased and turned into a strip mall.

It might shock you how many apples are thrown into the trash daily by school children. From what I understand, according to Federal rules, children must select three items for their lunch from the cafeteria line. Often the default third item (which they seldom want,) is an apple. The apples are not what I would call store quality, more "B" grade. Most of these get tossed in the trash, uneaten, at the end of the lunch shift. When I work cafeteria duty, I will rescue as many apples as I can, if for no other reason than to feed to the animals in my nearby woods.

I *hate* to see food go to waste. I wish the Federal Government would change the rules.

Does that mean kids can’t bring their own lunches anymore?

They can, but my (poor, urban) school system has universal free breakfast and lunch. So most parents understandably take advantage of that service.

And he could turn water into wine. Unfortunately he stopped the practice because his wine just wasn't that good.

It has made a huge difference in Oregon. Got them out of a big financial slump.

I imagine so.

Did the landowners consider using the orchard for cider apples?

I thus dissolved many a brain cell "back in the day."

I meant apples for hard cider. I brought it up because I know a Horticulture grad student who specializes in cider apples.

I’m just glad when agricultural land is not all subdivided and covered with strip malls.

Yep. (See above!)

How’d I miss that ?

Yes, my pet peeve.

Great minds.

I do think it's the right way to think about this problem. Most places would view a vineyard as making the area more attractive to both homeowners and visitors. We opponents of asphalt have to welcome anything that increases the earning potential of cultivated land.

It definitely helps with tourism. My friends often like to spend a warm spring or summer day visiting a vineyard or a brewery. The vinyards have tasting rooms and often, events such as live music.

She's never heard of Apple Jack? (The drink not the cereal)

I love apples more than I love wine;
does that make me selfish?

I live in a part of Germany where apples are routinely made into wine...

Maybe the apple trees were no longer bearing fruit, either literally or metaphorically.

I grew up spending months of my life going over to the church's welfare farm. Originally, they grew pears and we were so told at one point that we (our assigned farm) were the third most important pear orchard in the church's welfare system. However, a serious pear tree blight was killing the orchard. Very reluctantly (and too late) the church finally spent a few dollars and hired some farm specialists to come in to save the orchard.

An entire side of the orchard was declared a total loss and was bulldozed. So the church planted apple seedlings. Lots of members were thrilled because apple trees weren't as messy to deal with as pear trees. Just as the orchard was nearing the first apple crop, the church sent a bulldozer team to tear out all the trees.

The church sold the land and guess who purchased the land?

A local vineyard and they have been doing well for 20 years now.

I think vineyards are more pleasing than housing subdivisions.

When will church farms start growing cannabis?

just as soon as LD$ inc figures that it is profitable enough for them

I don't spend much time in California, so it's usually 5-8 years between visits.

I've notice that a lot of crop land has been repurposed to vineyards during those intervals between visits.

I've asked my SIL about it, she said vineyards are a great tax write-off. Asked about the water, she said they get priority on the water.

It's a great business to get into. Many Hollywood stars have vineyards.

What good is the world without rum and coca cola?

Indeed!

I think it's obvious, wine makes more money than apples. With that said, Washington makes great wines as do Oregon and CA. It seems everywhere I travel, somebody is making wine in their state. The majority of the wine is crap. You can always hire a winemaker but you need the proper weather and a good terroir to make a great wine. Note, the average price of wine purchased in the US is about $15, yikes.

-From a unabashed wine snob

I am a bit of a neophyte when I comes to wine but I've stopped at several BC estate wineries and have loved their wine. Craft beer is my usual focus.

My cardiologist recommended red wine and salmon to me.

Is Apply Country in Apple County?

You might can compare apples to oranges...
HOWEVER, you can't compare apply to grapes

BOTH (Apples and GRAPES) grow well in Washington/ the Pacific Northwest...

And BOTH (Cider and Wine) are in HIGH Demand!

Who cares what others are growing, or thinking?

Maybe it's not about alcohol, but people freely making their own environmental, financial, & even moral/ scientific/ community decisions.

I don't know. Don't ask me.

I like them both... And I don't know much about the story, as it goes...

I'm a farmer and I have no issue with a farmer growing whatever he thinks will make a profit. I grew malting barley for 40 years and got some grief from the odd Mormon who didn't think that was right for someone from a prominent Mormon family to do. My high priest/former EQP father had no problem with it. I very much like drinking the craft beer that's made with premium Alberta barley malt.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/11/2022 02:43PM by Lethbridge Reprobate.

Lethbridge Reprobate Wrote:
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> I grew malting barley for 40 years and got some
> grief from the odd Mormon who didn't think that
> was right for someone from a prominent Mormon
> family to do.

That is indeed odd. :)

It's funny, Nighty. In Idaho Falls, there are two prominent tall structures. One is the LDS temple. The other is a Budweiser grain silo known as the Beer Temple supplied by mainly LDS farmers. Go figure.

The Budweiser silo is the more prominent of the two, especially when approaching from the south.

Who cares? As long as they don't "pave paradise and put up a parking lot."

Exactly!

Does the board think? haha sorry...

The research is showing alcohol contributes to cancer everywhere it goes in the body and to metabolic disease. The healthful aspects of wine aren't the alcohol.

But I also endorse adults deciding for themselves about recreational chemicals.

I don't enjoy being around chemically impaired people.

When I drink beer or wine, most of the time you would never know that I'm "chemically impaired" because I don't drink to the point of getting tipsy. People who drink moderate amounts of beer or wine (or perhaps one hard liquor drink,) may be a bit more talkative, and perhaps laugh more, but they won't be noticeably impaired.

If you are around people who are very tipsy or drunk, it's another story.

summer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
may be
> a bit more talkative, and perhaps laugh more, but
> they won't be noticeably impaired.
>
Exactly!

I have a drink in social situations because it helps me be more sociable and friendly :)

I chose the word impaired because it has a legal standard associated with it, at least for alchohol.

Yes, smaller people, especially women, can hit the current Utah standard with just one drink. I think the data regarding driving at the point have merit,but I don't know that I would call it impaired generally.

recreational chemicals (drugs) covers a lot of area from Marijuana to opioids. Personally, I do care if people take opioids.

I think recreational chemicals is use is dangerous and illinformed generally.

But I don't think banning works well. And I'm not interested in protecting adults from themselves without their asking for help or intervention. There are better models for handling this use than what we do in the US. Portugal for one.

You're really saying ,how do we handle the drug problem, which I have no good solution. The US has failed miserably so I would agree we need to look outside our borders. I agree with you on Portugal.

dogbloggernli Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The research is showing alcohol contributes to
> cancer everywhere it goes in the body and to
> metabolic disease.
===============================
(Unfortunately) does do a number on the body -- probably via mitochondrial (and so cellular energy) degradation
https://www.boredpanda.com/before-after-sobriety-photos/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=organic

But these are adult decisions, and so I just don't "should" on others in any aspect of life or livelihood
- 'course I don't take any should :-)

A lot of Idaho farmers grow barley that goes into beer. Farming is a business. You grow what sells. I appreciate good apples though. They are getting hard to find.

I left the church after HS then joined the Army, then went to Iraq. Twice.

I just about drank myself to death after I got home from deployment #2 and have forced myself to quit.

Don't miss it at all.

Good on you, Nuggett.

dagny Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Good on you, Nuggett.

Yes, absolutely.

That's a tough one.

After 2 other totally tough ones.

Well done all 'round.

Look at the Wasatch Front. No more orchards on the east side and greatly diminished farming and AG on west side. Kind of scary in terms of local food sustainability. At lease in this case of the winery the land is still AG.

A vineyard probably beats the construction of a shopping mall or sub division named The Orchards.

If she doesn't like it she can buy the land, take out the grapes and plant Apples.

We used to have these SS discussions about famous athletes who refused to play in the World Cup because it was played on Sundays, but then then we were told of how wonderful Steve Young was a first rate Mormon ambassador as the greatest football player. He played every Superbowl and every Mormon sports fan was obligated to tune in to see the goodwill ambassador in action.

Plenty of others: We won't look at the SI swimsuit edition, but we support viewing Team USA Volleyball team in their new uniforms.

I was told many a times that I should die from thirst rather than buying a cold soft drink from a tavern that served beer and wine.

Mormons love to create a suffocating bubble of rules then attempt to justify ways to break every rule.

My favorite one on a Delta flight from Salt Lake to Dallas - Ft Worth. Flight attendants were serving coffee and one missionary became so riled up. He asked the lady if she could move rows of coffee drinkers forward in the plane because the aroma from coffee was making him nauseated.

-No dear, we won't do that. But we have a parachute especially for you. We can send a bus to pick you after you land.

It shut him up right away. One for the Mormon team!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/13/2022 10:35AM by messygoop.

Fun little fact. Eating apples don't grow true from seed, they're usually sour. So what was Jonny Appleseed doing? The one thing you can do with them is make hard cider. So Jonny Appleseed was spreading alcohol far and wide.

I think it goes to "the word of wisdom" which is no more than a mind control tool

I believe for many individuals Abstinence is a life & family saver.

Drunk - impaired driving, anyone?

Also, how many criminals tender a ‘I was drunk your honor’ defense…



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/16/2022 11:21PM by GNPE.

I think getting drunk is high school and college entertainment. It’s kids stuff. Nothing is more lame than seeing older people getting drunk at a party.

If you like a glass of wine with a meal or a beer now and then well that’s not lame.