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Posted by: Valued ( )
Date: April 22, 2022 10:07AM

13. Behold the Lord slayeth the wicked to bring forth his righteous purposes. It is better that one man should perish than that a nation should dwindle and perish in unbelief.

I have concluded that this verse sums up a lot of the problems with the rationalization of the "high and mighty." One’s morals are more important than morals.

This really gets down to where one comes from is more important than where you come from. (“comes from” can be defined as heritage, belief, association and/or land)

It is okay to break rules if it substantiates your rule.

Lying, cheating, intolerance, stealing, and killing are allowed for a "rightious cause."

Examples?

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Posted by: caffiend ( )
Date: April 22, 2022 11:25AM

What you have is JS taking malefactors' sentiments and assigning them to God. Did he do this consciously, or was he Biblically ignorant?

The Jewish leadership consciously set up Jesus for execution lest the Romans unseat their cushy positions.

"So the chief priests and the Pharisees gathered the council and said, “What are we to do? For this man performs many signs.
If we let him go on like this, everyone will believe in him, and the Romans will come and take away both our place and our nation.” But one of them, Caiaphas, who was high priest that year, said to them, 'You know nothing at all.
NOR DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT IT IS BETTER FOR YOU THAT ONE MAN SHOULD DIE FOR THE PEOPLE, NOT THAT THE WHOLE NATION SHOULD PERISH.'
He did not say this of his own accord, but being high priest that year he prophesied that Jesus would die for the nation,
and not for the nation only, but also to gather into one the children of God who are scattered abroad. So from that day on they made plans to put him to death." (John 11:47-53 ESV, EMPHASIS added.)

Yes, corrupt people camouflage their power, privilege, and rapacity behind a larger "cause." In my example above, Jewish nationalism. As Eric Hoffer said, “Every great cause begins as a movement, becomes a business, and eventually degenerates into a racket.”

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Posted by: bradley ( )
Date: April 27, 2022 02:34AM

If I run over a squirrel, did it die for its nation? Should I check on roadkill after 3 days to see if it resurrected?

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Posted by: Maca ( )
Date: April 22, 2022 12:51PM

I would say this verse 13 is a simple way (that's wrong) of interpretting a big problem, that of who's rights matter the mob or the individual. Victor Davis hansen has spoken much about this idea, what makes the west unique, ancient Greece where western ideas were first put into practice decided it wasn't right for the mob to steal the work that one Indiana had put Into to his land, hence they created property rights, and a senate of property owners who decided on community issues. Before that any group of thugs could take what they wanted. By valuing the individual over the group, people were incentivized to work hard and beautify their property, civilization was born

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: April 26, 2022 09:19PM

So property rights didn't exist anywhere in the world before the Greeks?

Do you realize how stupid that assertion is?

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Posted by: Roy G Biv ( )
Date: April 22, 2022 03:07PM

I want to know who that one person is that needs to die so the rest of the nation can believe. But then again, maybe not, it could be me!

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Posted by: Heartless ( )
Date: April 22, 2022 08:01PM

Several problems with the story.

First there is only one copy of these vital scriptures?

How do people know what to do if the one and only copy is sequestered in a treasury by an unrighteous man?

Second if these plates are taken from the Jews to the new world doesn't that leave the Jewish nation to dwell in unbelief?

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Posted by: CrispingPin ( )
Date: April 22, 2022 10:28PM

Lehi was a prophet, right? So why couldn’t God have just revealed whatever was needed from those scriptures directly to Lehi once they got to the promised land? It would have lightened the load for the trek across the wilderness and in the boat.

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Posted by: Heartless ( )
Date: April 23, 2022 07:32PM

And he had the Liahona too.

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Posted by: Kathleen ( )
Date: April 23, 2022 03:07AM

Pondering Book of Mormon crap is like pondering whether Bluto or Popeye The Sailorman was the actual father of Sweetpea.

It’s all made up.

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Posted by: bradley ( )
Date: April 23, 2022 01:46PM

Will Lori Vallow's defense quote that?

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Posted by: Valued ( )
Date: April 24, 2022 12:22AM

The moral of the story is that the ends justify means.

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Posted by: bradley ( )
Date: April 27, 2022 02:50AM

That idea permeates Mormon culture. Mormons are the nicest people but they are the wrong kind of nice. Sorry, gotta stab you in the back cuz God, but I'll do it with a smile.

The ends don't justify the means. The means are the end. Why don't Mormon prophets get this? Because they are not prophets. They are upper management in a real estate empire that uses a hokey religion as a tax dodge.

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