2 Nephi 5:21

"…wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them."

So the racist God of Mormonism, cursed an entire race of people with black skin to make them look bad and less attractive to the white (good) people, in direct violation of Christ’s main commandment to love our fellow men as ourselves?

I have asked this question of Mormons in many different forums, and if I don't get banned permanently from their forum just for asking a question, Mormons say, either,

#1. "Well, you have to put it in context of the 19th Century. People were super racist back then!" or

#2. "Good thing the church leaders have come out and repudiated those teachings since then. Waiting on the revised version of the Book of Mormon to edit out the racism."

#1. It's still in the online version of the scriptures. It's still being printed and distributed by the world's largest army of door to door recruiters. In what 'context' is it ok to worship a God who cursed people with black skin, to make them look (bad) less attractive to (good) white people?

#2. You have not 'repudiated' racism if you still keep printing and distributing the most racist myths canonized as scripture, long after they've been completely debunked by modern science.

Wait until you hear about the Mormon replacement theory where BoM references are replaced by Bible references.

Exactly.

Mormonism is no more racist than the bible is.

The pear if great price.

The book of Moses declares the Cain and his descendants were marked with black skin because of his murder of Abel.

It further describes the segregation of Cain's descendants from the righteous, their banning from the city of Enoch and that they were purposely not taught the gospel.

The the old standby of the book if Abraham. Translated or written by Joseph Smith that clearly is the basis for denying the priesthood to blacks.

"For Pharaoh was of that lineage denied the priesthood."

Don't let Mormons worm their way out of things by saying Brigham was racist. Joseph put the ban in writing .

Fun fact. This is all detailed in Mormon Doctrine in pre ban printings.

No no no...."white" means "pure" in many Jewish writings..."skin of blackness" is a metaphor.

See, if you're an apologist you can say anything to contradict what is clearly written. I mean, who are you going to believe, the church or your lying eyes?

Chicken N. Backpacks Wrote:
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> No no no...."white" means "pure" in many Jewish
> writings..."skin of blackness" is a metaphor.

Although white is the designated color of certain Jewish clothing (think prayer shawl, etc.--which may have blue stripes or other designs on them, but are predominately white), this has nothing to do with skin color.

Jews come from just about every part of the planet (both throughout history, and also in contemporary times), and are an emphatically multi-colored, and multi-cultural, people.

Have you ever seen any Ethiopian Jews? Any Jews of Ugandan ancestry? What about the native Jews in Ghana? What about the other black Jews in Eastern, Western, Southern, and Northern Africa?

In American history, most "black Americans" are multi-racial, for all of the unfortunate reasons we Americans know all too well, so even though we commonly refer to "black" Americans, the greater truth is: this specifically American cultural reference is misleading, because most every black American has a significant amount of other-than-black ancestry in their biological makeup.

IRL, and in my opinion (I have been to Israel): you likely haven't encountered a really black person until you meet what is probably (in USA terms) your first Ethiopian Jew. Until then, you likely just have no idea.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/02/2022 02:58PM by Tevai.

You know, I hope, that I hold modern Judaism as it is practiced in most parts of the world in high esteem. There are, however, three caveats that shouldn't be forgotten.

First, ancient Israel--both in the Hebrew period and the Israel/Judah period--was overtly and aggressively racist. One need only recall the genocidal mandates regarding the Canaanites and the Philistines to grasp that point. The massacres were never as aggressive as the Bible claims, but straight through the Maccabean years outsiders and non-Jewish residents of Palestine were treated as separate and inferior peoples.

Second, modern Israeli politics and policy, as distinct from Judaism and Jews, is overtly hostile to some countries and their peoples. Those peoples do not differ substantially from Jews in genetic terms, but they are separate ethnicities and ethnicity is a proxy for race.

Third, the Ethiopian example cuts both ways. Yes, Israel went to great lengths to get those people out of harm's way and resettle them in Israel. But as you may know--I don't know how much travel you've done over time--those Ethiopian Jews spent decades in "camps" and even now are not fully integrated into Jewish/Israeli society.

In all these discussions of large numbers of people, generalizations are difficult. So while I agree that modern Judaism as practiced widely in the US and other Western countries is a tolerant and progressive faith, much work remains to be done.

It's a very tough idea to come to grips with, the 'mark' there certainly is a difference between people, behavior attitudes and looks, an equally puzzling question might be why aren't there more south Koreans in the NBA? Where are the jews in professional wrestling?

We are all born in this world different.

There used to hardly be any Blacks in LDS Inc. Now they are the main cash crop in LDS convert statistics. Who saw that coming? Times change.

As for Jews in professional wrestling, they are all too busy plotting the socialist takeover of the world via the new world order - there you go, two of the favorite antisemitic dog whistles.

How many south Asians (a couple billion people more or less) in professional wrestling? How many Chinese?

Your willingness to see the world solely through a sense of ethnicity is truly amazing. Well, you do take the gender lens out for a spin now and then.

You do seem egalitarian with respect to anti-intellectualism. I suspect your disdain for academics is not particularly biased by ethnicity. You think they are all more or less a waste of oxygen.


How long, O Lord?

Maca Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's a very tough idea to come to grips with, the
> 'mark' there certainly is a difference between
> people, behavior attitudes and looks, an equally
> puzzling question might be why aren't there more
> south Koreans in the NBA? Where are the jews in
> professional wrestling?
>
> We are all born in this world different.

How is the OP a puzzling question for anybody who's not a delusional Mormon?

The point of a Socratic Question is to provoke actual thought in people used to thinking in cliches and logical fallacies. Ask a question where the standard cliches and logical fallacies don't apply.

How would you have answered the original question, is there a scripture as racist as 2 Nephi 5:21 ?

For me as an ExMormon I'd say,

the only scriptures more racist than Mormon scriptures are other Mormon scriptures.

Alma 3:6-9

6 And the skins of the Lamanites were dark, according to the mark which was set upon their fathers, which was a curse upon them because of their transgression and their rebellion against their brethren, who consisted of Nephi, Jacob, and Joseph, and Sam, who were just and holy men.
7 And their brethren sought to destroy them, therefore they were cursed; and the Lord God set a mark upon them, yea, upon Laman and Lemuel, and also the sons of Ishmael, and Ishmaelitish women.
8 And this was done that their seed might be distinguished from the seed of their brethren, that thereby the Lord God might preserve his people, that they might not mix and believe in incorrect traditions which would prove their destruction.
9 And it came to pass that whosoever did mingle his seed with that of the Lamanites did bring the same curse upon his seed.

So, according to the Book of Mormon, not only is dark skin a curse, but interracial relationships are too!

Even more interesting is the changes made.

Compare the Book of Mormon (1830 edition), 2 Nephi, Chapter XII, p. 117

"And the Gospel of Jesus Christ shall be declared among them; wherefore, ...their scales of darkness shall begin to fall from their eyes; and many generations shall not pass away among them, save they shall be a white and delightsome people."

With the current "translation" of 2 Nephi 30:6
"they shall be a pure and a delightsome people."

Why change "white" to "pure?"

What, according to the Book of Mormon, was the "Mark of Cain?
Moses 5:40 "And I the Lord set a a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him."

But what was this mark?

"For behold, the Lord shall curse the land with much heat, and the barrenness thereof shall go forth forever; and there was a BLACKNESS came upon all the children of Canaan, that they were DESPISED AMONG ALL PEOPLE." Moses 7:8,

Pearl of Great Price?

My ass.