I wanted to write my general conclusion about the Under the Banner of Heaven book and TV show that came out (no spoilers). Go watch the TV show if you haven't.

For context, I've been officially out of the church for about a decade, but have been mostly inactive for 20. I left mostly for the church's views about LGBT issues, gender beliefs, and the culty temple. My faith crumbled quite quickly after the temple and just getting an education in general. I didn't learn about the history until after I was already out of the church. It surprised me, but I never really got angry or emotional about it.

After reading the book, watching the show, it made me feel like I was back in that place when I first quit believing. I've come to realize that I still have never really DEALT with my emotions on leaving the church. Its not that I wasn't angry, its more that I haven't LET myself be angry or emotional about it. I just kind of left, said I'm not mormon and don't believe in god anymore, but I've never seemed to work through what I actually do believe and think.

So the story has kind of opened my eyes and I'm finally ready to work through it rather than brush it aside. I got a book on Amazon about leaving religion and the trauma it brings to help me out. I hope eventually I can undo the damage the church did to me (well, first I have to learn WHAT damage it did.)

Thanks for reading this if you did. It was very rambly and non-specific. :)

Thanks for sharing. It wasn't too rambly. Frankly, not rambly at all.

I wonder if you couldn't let yourself be angry at that time in part because it's sort of part of the culture. Mormons I know try not to express anger, and seem to pretend not to experience it.

Anger is a valid emotion. How you process it is important, of course. For example, don't go beat up your former bishop. On a serious note, you can be angry without being violent. Process anger in constructive ways, which it sounds like you may be about to do. I hope your book helps you process any residual feelings (and they don't necessarily even have to include anger).

Actually, all the smiley-ness during some of the arguments is one of the things in the last episode that I had planned to comment on. All the smiles and Type-B head tilting. It comes across as very insincere to me. I've seen that a little in some of the "exposé" sort of YouTube videos ("So and so confronts Mormons at Temple Square"), but never in person. Probably because my TBM brother just isn't like that (he's a jerk, and angry a lot--but like most narcissists he projects "anger problems" on to other people).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/03/2022 08:34PM by Gordon B. Stinky.

Thank you for your comments. Yes, I forgot to mention about the part of mormon culture that teaches you to sweep anger, sadness, etc. under the rug. That song from the Book of Mormon musical "Turn it off" really describes it.

I've always had a hard time with anger too since my fathers version of anger is lashing out physically, so I always worried that's how I'd express it too. But, like you said, my emotions don't have to include anger. Its just that I have hard time feeling ANY emotions. Sometimes I wonder if its family nurture, nature, or the church. Most likely a combo of all 3.

Turn that middle finger upside-down and flip the church away.

I could not identify more with your post. Especially this ;"I hope eventually I can undo the damage the church did to me (well, first I have to learn WHAT damage it did.)"

Ditto. Took me ten years after leaving to realize how screwed up I was. How much my understanding of life, of relationships, of myself I had been robbed of. I had a terrible time making friends because I didn't know how to be one. Parties in the real world caused me panic attacks.

I realized what the church was in 1973. Very suddenly. I was elated when it hit me. I felt like I was floating on air and a hundred thousand pounds had just been lifted off of me. I hit the ground running and never looked back as I headed for a new life.

But, what I didn't realize was though I thought I was leaving all in the dust, had just buried all that had happened to me as a Mormon, a very TBM Mormon. I had not left it all be hind but like you, had buried it all the way to China as they say. And it resurfaced much later.

I never knew any of the dubious church history either, I just knew it was bull. About 15 years ago I was reading some book reviewer's lists of their ten best books ever. One of them listed "No Man Knows My History" by Fawn Brodie saying it was a mosts fascinating biography. I remembered we had been warned to never read that book as it was full of lies when I was young. Got a copy and read it with my jaw on the floor. Lies? haha. Instead the book was well referenced with court documents, letters, newspaper clippings, journal entries and on and on. Finally the truth. Serendipitously getting some closure I didn't know I needed.

Still don't feel like a finished work but the following quote I found while excavating all I had buried helped a lot:



"Life does not accommodate you, it shatters you. It is meant to, and it couldn't do it better. Every seed destroys its container or else there would be no fruition."--Florida Scott-Maxwell

So glad you posted ttb3090

Life is the CERN particle accelerator and you are a proton.

No Man Knows my History was also the book that did it for me as well. I think a boyfriend at the time had encouraged me to read it.

I'm glad that you could identify with my post.

I think another thing that got me to decide to work through my stuff is my favorite podcast called, "Trust Me, Cults, Extreme Belief, and the Abuse of Power." Two girls (one of them is a former mormon, the other a former member of the "two by twos") interview different people who have been involved in cults, experts about cults such as steve hassen, etc. It is really interesting and helps you to see how much all of us who have left groups have in common.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/04/2022 10:50PM by ttb3090.

"Life does not accommodate you, it shatters you. It is meant to, and it couldn't do it better. Every seed destroys its container or else there would be no fruition."--Florida Scott-Maxwell

I just watched the part about whoever those leaders were who gave Brenda Lafferty the blessing about staying with her husband, saving the family, blah blah blah

My sister told me about it, but I thought I'd missed it. It was so much like when the bishop gave me 2 blessings and what he said. I fasted for days before each blessing and NOTHING. Absolutely nothing. I waited for him to say something that would help me. I felt like the "heavens were slammed closed."

Issues from the mormonism still shatter me depending on what is happening. Like the temple marriage of my daughter. The worst of it was being at the temple I got married in standing outside, like it was deja vu. My neighbor inviting me to church last Sunday, that I'd find peace. ARE YOU KIDDING ME? Going to "the farm" gave me peace, the land my dad and grandparents farmed for years and years. The farm I hated as a child gave me peace and made me feel safe. Not the lds church.

I would say that it took me a good 25 or 30 years to fully work through the trauma of divesting myself of the church and beliefs of my birth. Even with that, there is something that will trigger me every now and then. Going to funerals in that church is tough. I think that some of it is that the indoctrination goes deep. You are being taught about your faith at the same time as you are learning to read, and to add and subtract. You start at an age when you believe everything adults tell you.

One thing that was personally helpful was learning about various world faiths. That taught me that humanity had come up with many different solutions to faith questions over the millennia. No one church could plausibly claim to have a corner on the truth.

I also think it's toughest on those who took their faith very seriously, who bought into it the most. I don't think faith issues are nearly so troublesome to those who don't worry about every little thing so much.

summer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> One thing that was personally helpful was learning
> about various world faiths. That taught me that
> humanity had come up with many different solutions
> to faith questions over the millennia. No one
> church could plausibly claim to have a corner on
> the truth.


I took an eastern religion class in college and I loved it.Learning about different religions can really open your eyes.
They really are just created so people can explore questions about life and its meaning.

summer Wrote:

> I also think it's toughest on those who took their
> faith very seriously, who bought into it the most.
> I don't think faith issues are nearly so
> troublesome to those who don't worry about every
> little thing so much.

This is critical to understand. My WH (Worse Half) was raised in a boarding school with strict religious training. First time he heard the Flood story from the Bible he thought it was ridiculous. He thought all religion was made up crap from the beginning. And didn't really care. Just sounded ridiculous. All of it. But his parents weren't really pushing religion on him at all.

So I like what you say about starting "at an age when you believe everything your parents tell you". I remember very clearly like it happened yesterday as a little kid walking up the lane to Sunday School hand in hand with my mother and she told me how we were part of the only true church and how all the other churches were being used by Satan to trick people. I was like, "Wow. How lucky are we!"

The story of the flood. Bought it wholesale. All things Mormon. Bought them wholesale. Joseph Smith--the only person in two thousand years to be worthy to restore the church. Wow! Now that one really sounds more stupid than anything.

My other half does not understand in the slightest when I get triggered. I rarely do anymore but years ago it happened a lot. He was constantly hitting me to wake me up from the being attacked by Satan in dreams and could not understand why I couldn't just let it go. I had a near nervous breakdown after watching the movie "Latter Days" and went outside and sobbed for hours with him peeking out the window wondering WTF?!?!

I had an exceptional propensity to be extremely accepting of all my extremely Mormon parents told me. Those are the genes I got. Gullible. Too anxious to please. Bad combination with a cult.

So much is the luck of the draw when it comes to which parent you got and which genes you brought with you.

summer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I also think it's toughest on those who took their
> faith very seriously, who bought into it the most.
> I don't think faith issues are nearly so
> troublesome to those who don't worry about every
> little thing so much.

Wholeheartedly agreeing with summer and D&D.

Book A+
Church response to book F
TV series D-

I like Dustin Lance Black, but this series is bad. Worst, clunkiest, on-the-nose, unbelievable dialog ever.

Robin: “Go to hell!”
Detective: “That’s not very LDS. Last time I checked, we called it outer darkness.”

This thread is a really interesting viewpoint from ttb3090. Hmmm, if John Dehlin is reading?

Thank you! Finally I've said something here people can identify with. :)

Interesting and I can fully relate. The reason I’m back here again is because of realising I still have issues that I’ve buried. I left over 12 years ago. At the time I was just DONE. Also, I was aware of the gaslighting I’d face if I spoke up, so instead I resigned fairly quietly and told them never to contact me again. This might have gone well if I didn’t have Mormon family members.

I’ve since realised that what led me into mormonism and what keeps family members there are the real issues at the root of deeper problems. I might as well as been raised mormon. There is so much to process and heal from. If I’d known this I’d have cut ties 12 years ago and gone straight into therapy. Ignorance was bliss for a while but didn’t know I was being slandered behind my back.

So here I am again. My whole previous life is really steeped in religious trauma. I try to remain grateful I saw my way out of it, which isn’t easy when enduring constant gaslighting.