I'm sure TBM's would beam with pride after reading this, but for anyone else... WTH!!

"President Boyd K. Packer of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles told of an experience when President Spencer W. Kimball (1895–1985) declared that he, as the President of the Church, held the keys of the priesthood:
“In 1976 following a conference in Copenhagen, Denmark, President Spencer W. Kimball invited us to a small church to see the statues of Christ and the Twelve Apostles by Bertel Thorvaldsen. The Christus stands in an alcove beyond the altar. Standing in order along the sides of the chapel are the statues of the Twelve, with Paul replacing Judas Iscariot.

“President Kimball told the elderly caretaker that at the very time Thorvaldsen was creating those beautiful statues in Denmark, a restoration of the gospel of Jesus Christ was taking place in America with apostles and prophets receiving authority from those who held it anciently.

“Gathering those present closer to him, he said to the caretaker, ‘We are living Apostles of the Lord Jesus Christ,’ and pointing to Elder Pinegar he said, ‘Here is a Seventy like those spoken of in the New Testament.’

“We were standing near the statue of Peter, whom the sculptor depicted holding keys in his hand, symbolic of the keys of the kingdom. President Kimball said, ‘We hold the real keys, as Peter did, and we use them every day.’

“Then came an experience I will never forget. President Kimball, this gentle prophet, turned to President Johan H. Benthin, of the Copenhagen Stake, and in a commanding voice said, ‘I want you to tell every prelate [religious leader] in Denmark that they do not hold the keys! I hold the keys!’

“There came to me that witness known to Latter-day Saints but difficult to describe to one who has not experienced it—a light, a power coursing through one’s very soul—and I knew that, in very fact, here stood the living prophet who held the keys” (in Conference Report, Apr. 1995, 7; or Ensign, May 1995"

The feeling probably came to Boyd because Kimball dropped something and Boyd watched him bend over to pick it up. I've had that same feeling come over me while reading Playboy.

He said in a commanding voice, "I want you to tell every prelate in Denmark that they do not hold the keys! I hold the keys!"

I'm sure Denmark was really shook up after that event. The ripples of that ringing declaration spread immediately from that chapel...nowhere.

The elderly caretaker mumbled to himself, "These self-important assholes are whacked." And that was end of it.

Denmark continued along as always.

> "President Kimball, this gentle prophet, turned to President Johan H. Benthin, of the Copenhagen Stake, and in a commanding voice said, ‘I want you to tell every prelate [religious leader] in Denmark that they do not hold the keys! I hold the keys!’"

In other words, President Kimball said, "They're MY toys! Mine, mine, MINE!" [stomps feet]

The Danish were unimpressed and went back to drinking their very fine beer.

What an arrogant SOB!

Extremely so. Shockingly so. Sounds like a bad video game for ages 10-14.

And his arrogance was matched only by his gullibility and ignorance.

"President Kimball said, ‘We hold the real keys, as Peter did, and we use them every day.’"

Caretaker says: "Hell, no, I'm the caretaker and *I* use the keys every day, you old coot! Now get away from that statue!"

I'm quite sure Benthin thought, "This must be what they mean by 'Ugly American'!" What an arrogant P*O*S!!!

In spite of SWK, Denmark is reportedly one of the happiest places to live, without Mormonism.

(If the liars from the church didn't con my relatives into joining, I could possibly have grown up in Denmark, or England.)

The elitist attitudes of the leaders really is embarrassing. Aren't we marvelousssssss?

Alternate histories would include different recombinations of genetic material in reproduction. I'm not sure it would really be you. More like a person as similar to you as your natural siblings are.

Oh me Oh my!!!

Why couldn't he do his own dirty work? President Kimball should have had to do the rudeness himself and gotten in the face of every prelate in Denmark and said "You do not hold the keys! I hold the keys!"

(Now I am giggling imagining President Kimball with a black eye and a bloody nose sitting in a Danish jail cell.)

Slight problem here. SWK had had most of his vocal cords removed many years before, and could not speak in anything resembling a "commanding voice." This episode almost certainly did not happen, and BKP was in all probability lying. Again.


Eugene England, "A Small and Piercing Voice: The Sermons of Spencer W. Kimball," BYU Studies Vol. 25, No. 4 (Fall 1985), p. 81:

"In 1957 [SWK] had an operation to try to stem the cancer in his throat. He pleaded with the New York specialist to remove as little tissue as possible because of the unique importance of his voice to his responsibility in the Church. Though this involved some risk of not getting all the cancer, the doctor left the larynx and part of one vocal cord… The voice was forever changed, becoming small and raspy, full of the effort of breach required to sustain it – but emotionally piercing in a new way because it now constantly symbolized to his hearers what he had paid in courage and humility for that voice."


Encyclopedia of Mormonism, Vol. 2, KIMBALL, SPENCER W.:

"Elder Kimball suffered a heart attack in 1948 and throat cancer a few years later. Removal of most of his vocal cords left him with a distinctive weak, raspy voice."


A "small, weak, raspy" voice, not a "commanding" one. You can't have both. I remember hearing him talk, as do many of you. No way could he have spoken in 1976 as Packer claimed.


ETA: Found another account of Kimball's visit to Denmark. He spoke at the Copenhagen Area conference on August 5, 1976, at which he emphasized that you can't repent until you SUFFER. A LOT. God will not be pleased unless you SUFFER.

"One is not repentant until he bares his soul and admits his actions without excuses or rationalizations, until he has really and truly suffered. Suffering is a very important part of repentance. One has not begun to repent until he has suffered intensely for his sins." (The Teachings of Spencer W. Kimball, p. 88.)

After encouraging all that SUFFERING, he and his buds went to visit the cathedral. The account is described as follows:

Dell Van Orden and J Melan Heslop, with Lance E. Larsen, "A Prophet for All the World: Glimpses into the Life of President Spencer W. Kimball," BYU Studies, Vol. 25, No. 4 (Fall 1985), p. 52:

"In Denmark, President Kimball expressed a desire to visit the Cathedral of Copenhagen to see the original of Thorvaldsen's famous statue of Christ, a copy of which stands in the visitors' center in Salt Lake City. The cathedral was closed for repairs, but a knock on the front door brought the caretaker. After the visitors explained who they were, he graciously let them in…

"As the group prepared to depart, President Kimball could have merely thanked the gracious caretaker and said good-bye, but he didn't. Instead he said, 'I've certainly enjoyed this tour. But you know these statues are of dead Apostles.' The caretaker, who had spent much of his life involved with the statues, was taken aback and a little offended. But President Kimball went on to say, 'Do you know that in the world today there are living Apostles, and four of them are in this room right now?' First he introduced himself, then President N. Eldon Tanner and Elder Thomas S. Monson and Elder Boyd K. Packer. 'We are Apostles of the Lord Jesus Christ. Would you like to know more about a church that has living Apostles?'"

And that's it. The story ends there. No commanding voice, no "I hold the keys!" crapola. Not even the answer from the caretaker, although it's probably fair to say that a positive response would have been reported. Does it count as a BKP lie? I'd still say yes; he fabricated the part that Packer took as a witness of SWK's prophetability.

But the failed missionary opportunity wasn't a total loss. Kimball managed to offend an old man who had graciously allowed him entry into a closed cathedral.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/23/2015 12:41AM by Book of Mordor.

I'm sure Boyd believes he heard a COMMANDING "small, weak, raspy" voice. I'd ask him, but he's dead.

Has anyone heard a recording of Kimball speaking before his voice was weakened? I have, and it's quite a surprise. Part of his affectation of humility was to speak very slowly, because he had to force his breathing so hard to create any vibration. But back in the day he was a cocky little man, fast-talking, self-assured, and above all arrogant. Back then he still believed that necking and masturbation were little different from murder, and that dark and loathsome Lamanites were only there to kill you if you misbehaved.

He was loving his position of unquestioned power until he lost his voice. But then he had new power as a victim. He could sit back and crack he whip on Danes and others to convince people of that horrible, ugly gospel he had invented as punishment and couldn't even live himself.

What a shocking, disgraceful period in church history that was. Here he was burdening the members with all his sadistic thoughts and urges. And they treated him like some kind of hero.

Slightly o/t, however, according to BKKKP Kimball said,

. . . "I want you to tell every prelate [religious leader] in Denmark that they do not hold the keys! I hold the keys!"

What was being taught openly and regularly by TSCC in the 1970's to me, my siblings and every member of TSCC could have easily been said like this by SWK:

. . . "I want you to tell every prelate [religious leader] in Denmark that their church is of the Devil. We are the only true church of Christ."

That philosophy was POUNDED into our teenage heads by Morg leaders, sermons and lessons. It was even taught prior to 1990 in the temple endowment -- that all other religious leaders are employees of Lucifer.

Had SWK told this doctrinal lingo to the Danish leaders, then I don't think the TSCC would be in any position today to have received permission to digitally scan the Christus Statue and the 12 Apostles by Bertel Thorvaldsen for the replicas being made from the white marble stone of the "Michelangelo Quarry." Said replicas are to grace the new Visitor's Center at the Rome, Italy Temple (under construction).

I guess it's not nice to tell the Mormon truth or really be 100% honest with indoctrination facts or to say the damnation-doctrinal-blather anymore! It just might hurt the church's public relations and perpetuate even lower standings in its steadfast-sinking-surveys and poll numbers (which btw, are already at rock bottom).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/22/2015 06:12PM by jiminycricket.

Self important asshole wasn't he?

RB

Typical of "we don't put other religions down in our church!" mentality. For those of you younger RfMers, the Morg temple ceremony used to have a generic Protestant minister being employed by Satan to do his preaching to lead Adam and his posterity away from the True Messengers. His role was terminated in the post-1990 endowment changes that eliminated, among other things, the death penalties and the Adamic pay-lay-ale prayer.

RIP SWK, what you held was an illusion. The Boner.

“Gathering those present closer to him, he said to the caretaker, ‘We are living Apostles of the Lord Jesus Christ,’ and pointing to Elder Pinegar he said, ‘Here is a Seventy like those spoken of in the New Testament.’"

The Danish caretaker replied, "He's a-seventy? He doesn't look a day over a-fifty-five."

Kimball, a reviled bill collector in his native Safford, Arizona. I lived temporarily in Safford, and virtually no one had a pleasant memory of Kimball. He was the guy who came around and threatened people to pay up or get out of their house.

"Kimball, a reviled bill collector in his native Safford, Arizona. I lived temporarily in Safford, and virtually no one had a pleasant memory of Kimball. He was the guy who came around and threatened people to pay up or get out of their house."

IIRC, SWK was an agent for the church-owned Beneficial Life Insurance Co. I read his bio probably 30 years ago, and that's all I remember about his employment. I never heard that he was a "bill collector." Maybe he had to collect insurance premiums door-to-door as they did in those days,and that what the people referred to. Or maybe he owned some rental houses on the side.

I do recall that Kimball said that when he was called to be an apostle, he went around to people who he had done business with and told them that if they thought he wasn't fair or honest with them in financial dealings, that he would settle up with them. Who knows whether that's true or not. I never heard any local Mormons' negative reports about him.

My mother's sister and husband lived in Safford from the 1940s to the 1990s when they died. They had a ranch outside of town. Their daughter lives on it now. We visited them in 1967 when I was 12 years old. I never knew that it was SWK's hometown at the time (although as I recall he was from nearby Thatcher.)

I thought you were going to say that the statue of Peter looked like Kimball

Is it just me or did Packer sound Looney Tunes!???

I am the Key Master of Gozer!