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Posted by: slskipper ( )
Date: June 28, 2022 06:57AM

political?

There was a time when one could discuss, even in the context of Mormonism, topics like self-negation versus self-actualization. Or the merits of the United Order. Or grace versus works.And on and on. But now those discussions seem outright quaint, as religion has devolved into a series of battlegrounds. Gay rights, abortion, guns: these have become the face of religion in 2022. The mods on this board are going crazy trying to tease out the distinctions. Can we ever go back?

I realize that the distinctions have never been clear cut. That's how we got the Crusades and burning heretics. But even at its worst, there was always a strand of religion that at least tried to prioritize actual, you know, religious stuff. Are those days gone forever? Thanks.

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: June 28, 2022 07:05AM

I'm currently feeling a sourness towards religion in general, that is not entirely deserved. After all, I have religious friends who are in favor of reproductive choice, etc. Yet my hostility remains.

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Posted by: anybody ( )
Date: June 28, 2022 08:02AM

No.

That train left the station a long time ago.

The first big sign was the modus viviendi between Mormons and Evangelicals when Romney ran for president.

2040 is just eighteen years from now.

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Posted by: slskipper ( )
Date: June 28, 2022 09:25AM

What happens in 2040? Thanks.

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Posted by: anybody ( )
Date: June 28, 2022 08:08PM

2040 is the current estimate when white people are no longer a majority in America. It was first projected to be around 2050 -- but that date has been pushed forward several times.

White "christians" haven't been in the majority since the start of the 21st Century, and that's one of the main reasons for the situation you describe.

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Posted by: Dr. No ( )
Date: June 28, 2022 09:25AM

Question might be:

"Can religion ideologists live without forcing others to think and live in accordance with their dogma?"

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Posted by: thedesertrat1 ( )
Date: June 28, 2022 11:17AM

This all centers around forceable interference where I can force you to do as I say or I kill you!!!!!
our nation is in great jepardy. We need to be aware and and actively persuing our freedoms!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/28/2022 04:48PM by thedesertrat1.

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Posted by: Dave the Atheist ( )
Date: June 28, 2022 11:33AM

Religion is politics.

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: June 28, 2022 11:53AM

Best reply I've ever seen from you.

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Posted by: Dave the Atheist ( )
Date: June 28, 2022 02:40PM

I strive to give you something to think about by being purposely terse.

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Posted by: blindguy ( )
Date: June 28, 2022 11:39PM

It is also very accurate. Most people vote based on their emotional beliefs, and one of the primary sources for those beliefs comes from religion. (Hands up, all of you who thought that most people voted based on their research in to problems and the available knowledge about those problems and the advantages and disadvantages of the various possible solutions. No, it doesn't work that way).

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Posted by: Third of Five ( )
Date: June 29, 2022 05:44PM

If you’re not religious, politics are still based on your values.
Since leaving mormonism, I vowed to always play devils advocate and look at opposing views. With some things though I think I already understand and wish I didn’t.

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Posted by: Done & Done ( )
Date: June 28, 2022 12:10PM

Ka-ching! Unfortunately politics has become religion, too. Or was it always?

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: June 28, 2022 03:44PM

I've written here many times that religion and politics are very difficult to disentwine. Both are faith-based systems of thought that seek to influence people's emotions; both are designed to change the shape of society.

There has always been an (inevitably porous) wall between the two in the United States, but that started to break down with Newt Gingrich in 1994, then crumbled more with the Tea Party, and collapsed in the 2016 presidential election.

That's when I became significantly more assertive on this board. Until then I'd been more measured, but when the separation of church and state fell and people started posting what was really populist religion under the rubric of discussing "Mormonism," that became impossible for me.

We face the possible end of the republic.

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Posted by: Done & Done ( )
Date: June 29, 2022 12:41PM

Possible? What I see is more on line with Hemingway's response as to how a person goes bankrupt: "Gradually and then suddenly".

We are at the end of gradually and careening toward the suddenly. And the waterfall ahead that is the Great American Bankruptcy isn't about money. We are bankrupt in so many, many ways.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: June 29, 2022 03:39PM

I was reading through a list of EOD's book recommendations--he loves Tess of the d'Ubervilles--and fortuitously stumbled on this apposite quotation.

"All things merge one in another--good into evil, generosity into justice, politics into religion."

--Thomas Hardy

Although I doubt he envisioned the convergence of Christianity and, thanks to the Dobbs decision, cultural and legal totalitarianism.

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: June 28, 2022 11:56AM

    You can tell from the Latin that it's an old 'doctrine': "War, just and pious".  And certainly, the American response during WWII was one of our country's finer moments.  The status of America's wars degrades morally before and after WWII.

    But in many minds resorting to conflict can be justified, just ask any drunk outside a bar at 2:00 a.m. on a Saturday night/Sunday morning.  

    At the one extreme, we have complete pacifists...  Pick whatever label you want for the other extreme...  Leaving a middle ground full of an apparently easily stampeded human herd, eager to do the right thing for whatever reason sounds good at the moment.  

    Are there implied promises made by old generals and sergeants that make young men and women, thinking themselves invulnerable, risk their lives for 'the cause'?  Would there be wars were it not for the optimism of youth?  

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Posted by: Done & Done ( )
Date: June 28, 2022 12:18PM

Religion and Politics may have well been sealed in the Mormon Temple for time and all eternity. So, no.

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Posted by: Lethbridge Reprobate ( )
Date: June 28, 2022 12:44PM

I am pretty much anti religion...all of them. All exhibit cult behavior and all engender hatred for others in their most ardent and extreme followers. The root of all evil is my general comment on religion...and that gets some people very pissed off. So be it.

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Posted by: bradley ( )
Date: June 28, 2022 11:10PM

Religion is the opiate if the masses. It is being replaced by real opiates. I don't think that is an improvement.

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Posted by: Wonderwall ( )
Date: June 29, 2022 06:58AM

There are plenty of ways to discuss religion without politics. A lot of Quakers are very political but it's optional. The same with Universalists.

You can also go to meditation groups and retreats and stay a million miles from politics. I never joined the religions which ran them, but they allowed me a break when I needed it. The LDS missed a trick with retreat centers. They could have easily made the temples into something like this but you have to rush through them ans work all the time.

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Posted by: Human ( )
Date: June 29, 2022 08:34AM

Religion is a part of our culture. Unfortunately, our culture no longer meets politics at Trilling’s “bloody crossroads”. Our culture now is thoroughly politicized. Our culture has been subsumed, alas.

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Posted by: Adam Warrior ( )
Date: June 29, 2022 11:43AM

Or talk about it without it becoming a charged topic in general.

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