And if so, did God get visitation rights? Did Elohim get Jesus and hie to Kolob every other weekend with the stipulation that Jesus be returned by 5pm Sunday?

I wonder how much child support our Heavenly Father was ordered to pay, and if he ever fell behind in his payments.

Did Joseph, Mary, and God ever appear on the Maury Povich show?

Inquiring minds want to know.

I think Elohim was a deadbeat dad and Joseph just stepped up and did the right thing because he loved Mary.

Plus if he went through an adoption process, everyone would know he wasn't the real dad and that wouldn't reflect well on Mary.

But then again, this is pretty much par for the course as far as Elohim's ability to plan anything that doesn't end up all eff'd up.

Joseph Smith might have.
Would make sense - having him "adopted & sealed" to him for his dynastic line and place as The Greatest of The Prophets.

If I recall correctly, JS also claimed to be a direct descendant of Jesus, so he would have been adopting his Grandfather from way way back.

Nothing wrong with that in mormonism I suppose.

This is a multi-faceted question.

Since Jesus was born of a Jewish woman, he was legally and automatically a legal Jew. [In Jewish law, the definition of a Jew is: 1) born of a Jewish woman, OR: 2) a legal convert to Judaism.]

It is my understanding of that time that "adoption" (as we think of it) was mostly informal, and the important thing to be considered during that time period would have been whether Jesus was legally a Jew or not.

Since Jesus was born to Mary, his status re: Joseph would have been automatic: Mary was Joseph's wife, hence Jesus would have been automatically accepted as Joseph's son.

In that time, when rape was unfortunately common, Jews were well aware that paternity could be difficult, or impossible, to sort out, which is why Jewish law is as it is: during a birth, maternity is a matter of first-hand observation, while paternity may never be accurately known.

In essence, "legal adoption" in a contemporary sense did not exist back then.

In real life, as Mary's son, Joseph would have been accepted as Jesus's father regardless of unknown or unknowable biological facts.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/14/2022 02:25PM by Tevai.

I suppose it's a little hard to stone a God to death for adultry. Kudos to Joseph for not leaving Mary holding the bag.

Unless, as most Jews would agree, it's not rape when God does it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/14/2022 02:37PM by bradley.

According to Deuteronomy 22:22 and Leviticus 20:10, in cases of adultery, both the man and the women must be put to death. If Mary had been stoned to death, I suppose Christianity would never have existed.

bradley Wrote:
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> Unless, as most Jews would agree, it's not rape
> when God does it.

That's patently false. "Most Jews," approaching 100%, don't believe God has a body; don't believe God has a specific gender; and don't believe God has sex with humans.

But if He could, kind of like "if the church were true", God would get a pass. He pretty much got away with the Holocaust.

bradley Wrote:
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> God . . . pretty much got away with the Holocaust.

There are three assumptions underlying that proposition:

1) God exists,

2) God exercises power over what happens on earth, and

3) God cares about human wellbeing.

I am unsure about all three of those presumptions and hence cannot conclude that God was responsible for the Holocaust.

As you know, your paradox should be addressed to theists than to agnostics like me.

Lot's Wife Wrote:
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> That's patently false. "Most Jews," approaching
> 100%, don't believe God has a body; don't believe
> God has a specific gender; and don't believe God
> has sex with humans.


True.

What about finding car keys?

Comically, doesn't the Bible give the genealogy of Joseph? Who cares who begat who if he wasn't the direct biological dad. I cannot believe the lame apologetics used to explain how it all makes sense.

I don't think Joseph was the smartest camel in the desert. If I got pregnant and tried to convince my significant other that God did it, he wouldn't buy that for a minute. I can't believe she got away with that whopper.

Joseph might have become more supportive when he realized he had a crazy woman on his hands. What would she do without him?

Haha, when I first read your post I though the Joseph in the subject line referred to Joseph Smith. I thought this because the Mormon church acts as if it has dibs on Jesus. Other churches are only "playing" church and don't have priesthood powers or a direct connection to Jesus like the Mormon church has. Jesus only hangs out with Mormons.

heartbroken Wrote:
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> Jesus only hangs out
> with Mormons.

I betcha the real human being Jesus, the guy celebrated every year by Christians at Christmas time, never hung out with a Mormon in his entire life!

;)

He wears earplugs on Hanukkah due to Christmas Carolers.

I don't think Joseph gets enough credit.

Think about this: With Jesus as his legally adopted son, Joseph never had to worry about losing the keys to the camel.

:)

Think of how handy he could be when groceries were running low. If he could feed a multitude with only two loaves of bread and a few fishes, imagine what he could do with a bag of Doritos and a jar of salsa.

CrispingPin Wrote:
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> Think of how handy he could be when groceries were
> running low. If he could feed a multitude with
> only two loaves of bread and a few fishes, imagine
> what he could do with a bag of Doritos and a jar
> of salsa.

The Doritos are fine, but instead of salsa:

I think you mean hummus (a kind of ubiquitous, Jewishly essential, spread or dip for bread, crackers, raw vegetables, etc. I eat most of my hummus as a spread between slices of Colby Jack cheese either at breakfast, or as a snack during the day).

[Ingredients: garbanzo beans; olive oil; [sesame] tahini; filtered water, lemon juice; garlic; sea salt, cayenne pepper].

I like both the "regular" kind of hummus (the ingredients above), and also the Roasted Garlic & Olive Hummus (with roasted garlic and olives added).

Outside of Israel, it is my very strong opinion that the very best hummus obtainable in North America is from Follow Your Heart--located in Canoga Park, California, on Sherman Way (in the western San Fernando Valley).

Not only is the FYH hummus fully as good as any I am aware of that can be obtained in Israel, it is (IMO) better!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/16/2022 12:40PM by Tevai.

Joseph Smith, Jr., Never Did Anything legal

That's like saying "Gee! I wonder what type of laptop Jesus owned?"

It's pointless looking back thousands of years in this way.

"I often think that life is pointless. There's a culture that points with the elbow, and that's as close to pointless as you can get, because when you ask, 'where's your elbow?', you don't know which elbow is pointing and which elbow is being pointed at."

--Judic West, from his novel, "Point, Set & Match"

Is it available on Amazon (Kindle or otherwise)? My wife wants to read it.

The words in the title of Judic's novel are used as verbs, rather than the nouns a tennis player would assume they are.  He wrote it in a blatant attempt to rip off "Eats, Shoots & Leaves".

But then it was optioned for a movie and he had to go into exile, briefly, since fame ill becomes him. Luckily, as he puts it, Pee Wee Herman was unavailable and the project languished, caught a fever and then was translated to a higher kingdom ... Canada.

When next I see him, I'll ask for an autographed copy, but it doesn't mean he'll hear me.  Suggest to her that she wait sitting down...or napping.

matt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

“It's pointless looking back thousands of years in this way.”

So much of religion is pointlessly looking back thousands of years.

Judea became a Roman territory in 6 CE.

Unlike the provinces, which were governed by ex-consuls and other men of senatorial rank, lesser territories were placed under the control of prefects, senior military officers equivalent to modern lt. colonels or colonels.

So, it would be a pretty quick conversation:

Joseph of Bethlehem: I'd like to legally adopt my wife's illegitimate child. I went to a lawyer and got the papers drawn up. I don't know who the father is.

Prefect: Are you a Roman citizen?

Joseph: No.

Prefect: Next case...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/15/2022 01:55PM by anybody.