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Posted by: totenkopf ( )
Date: April 14, 2011 01:08AM

Hello,

I have a few questions for those in the know. Questions I have for those in the know are how much of the temple rituals did Joseph Smith graft from the Masonic ones, and on that note, what are Mormon and Mason relations like?
Thanks!

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Posted by: jaxxtraxx ( )
Date: April 14, 2011 03:20AM

The whole concept of the restoration, BOM secret combinations, conflict between nephites and lamanites etc. are ALL based on masonic lore and esoteric teachings. Masonry is the single most influential and damning thing to mormonism. Practically all the core "restored" teachings of the restoration can be traced back to masonic lore. The temple endowment was undeniably stolen from free-masons and tweaked for Smith's own agenda. The church has distanced itself quite a bit from free-masonry over time and I think part of the desire to distance itself comes from the many volumes debunking and discrediting origins of the masons and their mythology/folklore. Someone will likely write an in-depth book on this in the coming future, who will link and combine the many obvious plagiarism and fundamental influence masonry had on Smith and his idea of a needed restoration. Until someone who understands the factions of masonry etc. etc. writes that book, you are likely left to read quite a number of volumes on your own in order to see how the restoration and masonry fits in.

There are books that gloss over it, but I have yet to find one that really tackles and credits masonry for the due credit of Josephs restoration. Anyone that does so will clearly kill the idiotic apologetic of "if joseph was NOT called of god, where did he get all these ideas from? surely the work was far greater than the man!" I give joseph credit for having a great mind and genius mastery to manipulate and weave together ideas to fit his own purposes and further his theological views, but it is clear that ALL his ideas regarding a restoration, apostasy, final dispensation are all built on his understanding of masonry

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Posted by: JoD3:360 ( )
Date: April 14, 2011 08:45AM


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Posted by: JoD3:360 ( )
Date: April 14, 2011 08:57AM


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Posted by: JoD3:360 ( )
Date: April 14, 2011 08:59AM

sorry for the apperntly double post- the board seemed to crash when I first tried is a few minutes ago and the message didn't seem to be here...
very weird.

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Posted by: totenkopf ( )
Date: April 14, 2011 09:08AM

Wow, so its like I've always guessed. Thanks for the link to that website. You know, with this in mind, its no small wonder whenever I have seen mormons they seemed to focus on imigrants, single mothers, and others who may have been more vulnurable. Seemed like if they saw a caucasian male who looked like he had a brain they avoided him like a disease.
While were at it, how are Masons treated in the state of UT? I would think if they have that much damning evidence against them they would dispise them. Also, think a book would really do that much good? Look at christianity, acedemia, modern science, and alot of society not only makes a mockery of the religion, but have more or less proven christianity that our grandparents (for those of us who are non-mormon) is total BS.

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Posted by: Thread Killer ( )
Date: April 14, 2011 09:35AM

Oddly enough, lots of mormons are masons, an also oddly enough, many of them either say they see little similarity between the two or defend the similarity as being rooted in ancient truths. Go figure.

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Posted by: onendagus ( )
Date: April 14, 2011 12:03PM

ARe they? I thought mormons were discouraged from joining masonry. We used to talk about how weird it was that the early church leaders were masons but now it was considered "bad".

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Posted by: Skeptical ( )
Date: April 14, 2011 10:03AM

Here is a page of various Mormon Expressions podcasts. Podcast 5 is about Masonary and Mormonism. The interviewee is a Mormon and longtime Mason. He admits the Smith borrowed from Freemasonry to invite the temple ritual.

http://mormonstories.org/?page_id=102

He could be considered an apologist as he explains that perhaps Smith borrowed Masonic rituals only as a tool to teach truth. He also admits that Masons no longer accept that the Masonic rituals are of ancient origin.

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Posted by: Jim Huston ( )
Date: April 14, 2011 01:23PM

I wrote this originally about 4 years ago. I have checked and updated the links. I have found that discussions with TBMs about Freemasonry fall in three general categories, so I have addressed each in separate sections

1. Joseph Smith was not a Freemason
2. Freemasonry is a corrupt temple ceremony and dates to the Temple of Solomon
3. The temple ceremony and Freemasonry are completely different.

Joseph Smith was not a Freemason
Joseph Smith and many of the most prominent members of the Mormon Church were also members of the Masonic Lodge. There is no doubt that Joseph Smith knew the Masonic Rituals before he introduced the Temple Ceremony. Joseph was initiated as an entered apprentice Mason on March 15, 1842, and received the fellow craft and master degrees the following day. He introduced the full endowment ceremony which included the secret signs, tokens, passwords, and penalties, just seven weeks later on May 4, 1842 (see History of the Church, Vol. 5, pp. 1-2).

"By 1840, John Cook Bennett, a former active leader in Masonry had arrived in Commerce [Nauvoo] and rapidly exerted his persuasive leadership in all facets of the Church, including Mormon Masonry. ... Joseph and Sidney [Rigdon] were inducted into formal Masonry...on the same day..." ("Is There No Help for the Widow's Son?" by Dr. Reed C. Durham, Jr., as printed in Joseph Smith and Masonry: No Help for the Widow's Son, Martin Pub. Co., Nauvoo, Ill., 1980, p. 17.)

"Tuesday, 15.—I officiated as grand chaplain at the installation of the Nauvoo Lodge of Free Masons, at the Grove near the Temple. Grand Master Jonas, of Columbus, being present, a large number of people assembled on the occasion. The day was exceedingly fine; all things were done in order, and universal satisfaction was manifested. In the evening I received the first degree in Free Masonry in the Nauvoo Lodge, assembled in my general business office." (History of the Church, by Joseph Smith, Deseret Book, 1978, Vol.4, Ch.32, p.550-1)

"Wednesday, March 16.—I was with the Masonic Lodge and rose to the sublime degree." (History of the Church, Vol.4, Ch.32, p.552)

"The introduction of Freemasonry in NAUVOO had both political and religious implications....Eventually nearly 1,500 LDS men became associated with Illinois Freemasonry, including many members of the Church's governing priesthood bodies—this at a time when the total number of non-LDS Masons in Illinois lodges barely reached 150." (Encyclopedia of Mormonism, vol.2, p.527)

By the 1840s, many Mormon leaders in Nauvoo, including Smith and apostles Brigham Young and Heber C. Kimball, became Masons and organized a lodge there under the auspices of the Grand Lodge of Illinois. It wasn't long before nearly every male member of the church in the area had joined. At the same time, Smith introduced LDS temple rituals that included secret handshakes, signs and symbols like the all-seeing eye, the compass and square (tools of the mason's trade) and the sun, moon and stars that echoed Masonry.
Soon, though, other Masons felt that the Mormons were dominating the fraternity. In 1842, the Nauvoo Lodge was suspended. Many Mormons believed that Masons contributed to the murder of their prophet.
Antagonisms built up between the two groups. In Utah in 1860, Masonic lodges were established but they prohibited Mormons from joining. At the same time, Young forbade Mormons from joining and refused to allow any Mason to hold priesthood leadership positions in the church, Literski says.

It wasn't until 1984 that LDS President Spencer W. Kimball removed the prohibition against Latter-day Saints becoming Freemasons. Later that year, the Grand Lodge of Utah removed its own ban on Mormon membership so that, in the ensuing years, many Latter-day Saint men have returned to this part of their heritage.
All the aspects of the Masonic ceremony that Joseph needed for his Endowment ceremony were pretty much known through exposes that had been published. The most famous one was done by William Morgan (available online), who was killed in 1826 for divulging the Masonry rituals. Interestingly his widow, Lucinda, ended up becoming one of Joseph Smith's early plural wives.

Freemasonry was a degenerated Priesthood from the Temple of Solomon

"Bro Joseph Ses Masonary was taken from preasthood but has become degen[e]rated. But menny things are perfect." (Letter from Heber C. Kimball to Parley P. Pratt, June 17, 1842)

LDS historian David John Buerger
LDS historian David John Buerger conceded that there is no validity to Joseph
Smith's claim that Masonic rituals were of ancient origin:
"The traditional origin of Freemasonry (which 'enlightened' Masons view as mythological or legendary) is the construction of Solomon's temple by Master Mason Hiram Abiff. Actually Freemasonry was a development of the craft guilds during the construction of the great European cathedrals during the tenth to seventeenth centuries.
After the Middle Ages, lodges in Scotland and Great Britain began to accept honorary members and worked out rudimentary ceremonies to distinguish members of trade organizations. In 1717 four fraternal lodges, perhaps actual masons' lodges, united as the Grand Lodge of England, considered the beginning of organized Freemasonry or 'speculative Masonry.' The order spread quickly to other countries and included such prominent adherents as Mozart, Voltaire, George Washington, and Benjamin Franklin. Some historians believe that Masons staged the Boston Tea Party.
Latter-day Saints may feel that Masonry constitutes a biblical-times source of uncorrupted knowledge from which the temple ceremony could be drawn. However, historians of Freemasonry generally agree that the trigradal system of Entered Apprentice, Fellow Craft, and Master Mason, as practiced in Nauvoo, cannot be traced further back than the eighteenth century. According to Douglas Knoop and G. P. Jones, two knowledgeable twentieth-century historians, it is 'highly probable' that the system of Masonry practiced at the organization of the Grand Lodge in London 'did not consist of three distinct degrees.' They warn, 'It would probably not be safe to fix a date earlier than 1723 or 1725 for the origin' of the trigradal system. 'Accepted Masonry underwent gradual changes throughout a period of years stretching from well before 1717 to well after that date.... The earliest speculative phase of Freemasonry may be regarded as beginning about 1730.... Though some symbolism had doubtless crept into Masonry by that date, it would not appear to have reached its full development for another forty or fifty years.' "
(The Mysteries of Godliness: A History of Mormon Temple Worship, pp. 45-46.)

“Unfortunately, there is no historical evidence to support a continuous functioning line from Solomon's Temple to the present. We know what went on in Solomon's Temple; it's the ritualistic slaughter of animals.”
“The Message and the Messenger: Latter-day Saints and Freemasonry” by Greg Kearney

http://www.fairlds.org/FAIR_Conferences/2005_Latter-day_Saints_and_Freemasonry.html

“Masonry, while claiming a root in antiquity, can only be reliably traced to mediaeval stone tradesmen.”

“It is clear that Freemasonry and its traditions played a role in the development of the endowment ritual…”
http://www.fairlds.org/Misc/Similarities_between_Masonic_and_Mormon_Temple_Ritual.html

John Lynch, LDS Chairman of FAIR
John Lynch, head of FAIR confirms in a podcast on mormonstories.org that the Masons did not have the temple ceremony from Solomon’s time. To listen, go to

http://mormonstories.org/podcast/MormonStories-007-FAIRPT1.mp3
http://mormonstories.org/podcast/MormonStories-008-FAIRPT2.mp3
http://mormonstories.org/podcast/MormonStories-009-FAIRPT3.mp3

- I’m not sure which of the three parts it’s on, but Brother Lynch admits to John Dehlin that many commonly-held beliefs of the members are untrue – specifically mentioned are that there were NOT more women than men in the Church when they practiced polygamy and that the Masons did not really have the temple ceremony from Solomon’s time. He even jokes that ‘anti-Mormons’ will use what he said against him.

Greg Kearney
Greg Kearney is a lifelong, multi-generational Mormon and Master Mason. Per FAIR’s website: ‘Greg Kearney is an active temple-attending Latter-day Saint as well as a life member of Franklin Lodge #123 A.F. & A.M. as well as several lodges of research. He gives Masonic education lectures at lodges on the history and relationship of Freemasonry to the development of the Latter-day Saint temples.’

Brother Kearney has written many article for FAIR. He was interviewed by John Dehlin of Mormonstories.org. We found it to be a very interesting podcast. He is a devout Mormon and defends the LDS Church. As a perhaps 10th generation Mason he is very knowledge about Masonry.

In the mormonstories.org podcast Brother Kearney is quite candid in stating that the Masonry Rituals do not come from Solomon’s time or anywhere even close to that. He completely refutes the commonly-held defense among many Latter-day Saints that believe that the LDS temple Ceremony is similar to Masonry Rituals because the original Masons working at Solomon’s temple had learned temple ceremony secrets and kept them long after Solomon’s temple was destroyed.

Per mormonstories.org: ‘In this podcast he discusses the history of Masonry, how it became associated with the LDS Church, and why he feels like this association is a positive, and not a negative one. We go into surprising depth not just on the respective temple ceremonies (without being disrespectful, or violating covenants of course), but also on Joseph Smith’s involvement during the Nauvoo years. You will be amazed at his knowledge on these topics. The podcast is available here:
http://mormonstories.org/podcast/MormonStories-005-Masonry.mp3

Albert Pike, head of York Rite freemasonry in the 1800s, attributes Freemasonry to Kabbalism in his book “Morals and Dogma”. Gershom Scholem “Kabbalah”, Professor of Jewish Mysticism for the University of Jerusalem does the same. Gershom Scholem headed a research project that identified the 11th and 12th centuries as the beginnings of Kabbalism and the Zohar, the primary book of Kabbalism.

The Temple Ceremony and Freemasonry are completely different


LDS historian Reed C. Durham, Jr., insists Joseph Smith did in fact use the Masonic ceremony as a springboard for the Mormon ceremony. He wrote, "There is absolutely no question in my mind that the Mormon ceremony which came to be known as the Endowment, introduced by Joseph Smith to Mormon Masons initially, just a little over one month after he became a Mason, had an immediate inspiration from Masonry" (No Help For the Widow's Son, 1980, pg. 17).

"[L]ittle room for doubt can exist in the mind of an informed, objective analyst that the Mormon Temple Endowment and the rituals of ancient Craft Masonry are seemingly intimately and definitely involved." (Mervin B. Hogan, Freemasonry and Mormon Ritual (Salt Lake City: author, 1991), p. 22)

The Mormon Temple endowment ceremony is without a doubt taken from the Masonic ceremonies Joseph Smith participated in just weeks before he introduced the temple endowment. The grips, tokens, covenants, secret words, keys, etc. were word for word the same when first introduced. Members who were Masons previous to Joseph joining the fraternal order unashamedly referred to the Mormon endowment as "celestial masonry." Fawn Brodie, No Man Knows My History, pp. 279-283

Heber C. Kimball, a Mason himself said, “We have the true Masonry. The Masonry of today is received from the apostasy which took place in the days of Solomon, and David. They have now and then a thing that is correct, but we have the real thing.” (Manuscript History of Brigham Young,” 13 November, 1858, 1085, LDS archives; see also Stanley B. Kimball, “Heber C. Kimball and Family, The Nauvoo Years, Brigham &Young University Studies 15 (Summer 1975): 458. See also David John Buerger, The Mysteries of Godliness: A History of Mormon Temple Worship, Smith Research Associates, San Francisco, 1994, 56.)

"The clearest evidence of Masonic influence on the Nauvoo temple ceremony is a comparison of texts. Three elements of the Nauvoo endowment and its contemporary Masonic ritual resemble each other so closely that they are sometimes identical. These are the tokens, signs, and penalties." (David Buerger, Mysteries of Godliness: A History of Mormon Temple Worship, Chapter 3: Joseph Smith's Ritual)

"I have attempted thus far to demonstrate that Masonic influences upon Joseph in the early Church history, preceding his formal membership in Masonry, were significant....In fact, I believe that there are few significant developments in the Church, that occurred after March 15, 1842, which did not have some Masonic interdependence." (Joseph Smith and Masonry: No Help for the Widow's Son, p.17)

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Posted by: Julia ( )
Date: April 14, 2011 01:56PM

I know some Mormons who consider themselves to be 'intellectuals' who actually try to make the connection. In studying my way out of the church I read one of their favorite books...The Hiram Key.

This book grasps at straws to connect Masonry back through the middle-ages, Egyptian pyramids, Soloman, Noah and Adam & Eve. The information is really stretched to draw together the God based masonry....and Mormons obviosly connect it to the restored temple.

Interesting reading...but we all know that Masonry isnt that old and Joe just stole it!

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