Has anyone experienced systematic parental alienation, the baptizing of your children against your will or the sealing of your children to another parent against your will in the temple of the morman church?

Just heard a talk by grown man about his mother and how she left his father and married a temple worthy male who then used the priesthood in their home. He went on to describe how his step dad was then "sealed in the temple" to the mother and the chidren because their real dad wasn't worthy.

I was ready to stand up and announce my feelings as a rebuttal but didn't want to get escorted out of the church that sunday.

It made me sick because it was all about how wonderful it was from a childs point of view. Problem was that the guy was brainwashed twice...once by the church and the second time by his mother.

Total parental alienation. There are lots of good support groups and online pages about the topic.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/28/2012 03:51PM by upsidedown.

My ex boyfriend and I have a child together.my ex has had my daughter blessed and sealed to him and his wife without my permission, with a forged document. I am now fighting with the church to make sure he does not baptize my daughter without my permission. The problem is he wants it in a court document that I have to let him do it. Do we have any lawyers here that know how to make sure this does not happen?

You need to consult a lawyer in the state where your daughter resides.

Does he have legal custody or do you? Is it joint custody, or sole custody?

If you share custody it may become contested ie, his beliefs to raise the child according to his conscience verses yours.

Asking for legal advice online is speculation.

You need help from legal experts who can tell you what you need to know to make an informed decision as to your rights/his rights/daughter's etc. It sounds like you want to contest it. How it comes down may be decided in court.

My ex wasn't around to raise our children. He was raised another religion, a never Mo. That's one bullet I dodged when we divorced. He didn't challenge anything I did as a single mom. Not a thing. It made my life easier not having to deal with him although he was also a deadbeat dad. My children may have suffered without having a dad growing up. But they were still better than had they been closer to him, because he's a depraved person.

Sounds like your ex is a hands on father, albeit TBM.

My mother turned me against my father and it took me more than two decades to realize it.
She continues to gossip the most nasty things about me to the extended family.

But there was no baptism or sealings against anyone's will... Unless you count my will, and I've resigned, therefore all my "blessings" have been retracted, or something.

Knotheadusc has some choice observations on Parental Alienation as practiced by her DH's ex-wife.

Yes, my husband's ex wife launched a successful parental alienation campaign against him and his two daughters. However, the girls were already sealed to him when my husband and his ex wife divorced. Incidentally, my husband was also sealed to his former stepson, who had adopted my husband's name as a child and was alienated from his father. He has since reclaimed his original name and now calls his long lost bio father "dad"... same guy who walked away from him at age six and never paid child support beyond that age.

The ex did not allow my husband to baptize his older daughter, claiming that he was unworthy because he was a "violent porn addict" and she didn't agree with how the bishop disciplined him. For the record, I've been married to my husband for almost ten years and I have never seen any proclivities toward violence whatsoever. By the time his younger daughter got baptized, they were divorced and living on opposite sides of the country.

The ex's current husband (#3) is now "dad" to them, even though he wasn't even a legal adult when they were born and never financially supported them. They recently adopted his last name and, for all we know, were legally adopted by him. My husband's daughters are now young adults, so this would be legal. The ex tried to get them adopted before they were legal, but we put a stop to that. My husband has not seen his daughters since 2004. The last communication he got from them was in 2006, when they sent him letters demanding that he let their stepfather adopt them. They were 15 and 12 at the time. Those letters broke my husband's heart.

One of the main reasons I hate Mormonism is because of the way it's been used to separate my husband from his kids. However, I also know that my husband's ex wife would have alienated them regardless. Mormonism was just an effective tool.

Castaway Dad, you are right. It's the ultimate hate crime. I hurt every day for my husband and I barely even know his kids... and at this point, though I know they are victims, I don't even want to know them. I can't wrap my head around the way they have just rejected their father and his side of the family. Logically, I know they were brainwashed by a sick woman, but emotionally, I am still really angry with them and don't want them around. And I also fear that they are just as screwed up as their mother is and will one day try to use grandchildren to manipulate other people.

I would encourage you to fight for your rights with a good non-Mormon lawyer. I would also encourage you to visit www.shrink4men.com. You will find useful information about parental alienation there. Also, if you haven't already done so, I would recommend reading "Divorce Poison" by Dr. Richard Warshak.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 08/29/2012 09:31AM by knotheadusc.

I believe for the past 4 years I have been experiencing a planned systematic parental alienation condoned taught & encouraged by the Mormon church. This appears to be practiced on a global scale for those parents who have left the teachings of the Mormon church.

Some examples are:
The baptizing of minor children against one parents wishes and beliefs.
The Sealing of the children in temple ceremonies to a new step parent who are true blue Mormon believers against the will of the biological parent who is now estranged from the church. There is a practice of willful shunning the non-Mormon family member.

The willful intention is to use the courts and false accusations to eliminate the targeted parent completely from the lives of the children, as if they were dead.

I am now uncovering and collecting testimony's of other alienated Ex-Mormon parents.
Parental alienation is called the ultimate hate crime.
I love my children, please help me they have been abducted by a cult.

Get yourself a good, non-mormon lawyer.

A child can not be sealed to a step parent until they are over the age of 18 or adopted by the step parent. I was a step mother to 2 kids from different marriages of my husband. His son's mom got remarried and they got sealed He was not allowed to be sealed to his step dad unless my husband gave up his rights. We couldn't have him sealed to us without me adopting him.

What do you mean sealing in the temple to a step parent? My understanding is that sealings to step parents can only be done if there has been a legal adoption. Even two parent families who adopt children have to wait for the final decree of adoption before they can be sealed.

Unfortunately this is one of the tragic consequences of the teachings of the mormons. These "family oriented" people will completely ignore their own blood because they are "sinning". I know this because I didn't really talk to my father for years after my parents divorced and he left the church. I didn't prevent him from seeing my children, and I didn't avoid him, but I also didn't make any effort to talk to him or be close. I was angry b/c he broke our "eternal family".

Now that I realize the truth I am horrified with my actions. I have apologized to him and I look forward to getting to know my dad again.

You need to find a lawyer who has experience in this area.

Parental Alienation is a common tactic ex-wives employ against ex-husbands.

Severe Parental Alienation, if proven to be causing damage, is grounds for change of custody. Could be very difficult and expensive to prove and win. But it's possible.

The main question is, how is your relationship with your child? If your relationship is good and you are sticking with the visitation schedule, there's no parental alienation...just an obnoxious ex.

Im a single father and ex convert to the Mormon church. I've been divorced 14 years from the most toxic person I've ever had the misfortune of having been involved with in my life, my ex wife. I have been alieanated systematically from both of our daughters at different times in their lives. My eldest was 14 when the divorce was made final and our youngest was two. I had adopted my first daughter but as a convert I never made it to the temple thank God!!! I'm a Catholic and was convinced by several missionaries and the barrage of home teachers and well wishing meally mouthed members that I could just add the Mormon faith to my own and still be a catholic as well. When I finally realized or woke up I left the church and that is why my ex decided to divorce me and immediately went to work on my newly adopted daughter. She brainwashed her and for years I was treated as the bad guy the horrible wanta be actor dad that chose his career over his children and marriage. That is only part of what I discovered she, my ex was indoctrinating our children with. I knew that with my adopted older daughter that the fight was pointless and afterall we were only together for about six years but eventually she would see the truth. It wasn't that easy or simple as it turned out. I sometimes wonder how far would my ex go to turn her and our other daughter against me. After about seven years she came back in my life still not knowing the truth or not in possession of accepting the need to resolve. I know she has a perception of me that is false and to this day flies off the handle at me when I try to talk or communicate with her. I honestly think she might have been hypnotized over time. Her mother is a classic narrassist and diagnosed as a physcioapath. She is now on her forth marriage and has succeeded in alieanation again with our soon to be 17 year old who told me over two years ago that she didn't feel "comfortable" living with me anymore and asked to spend more time with her mother. I don't know why I didn't see or remember those exact words but it was like dejavue again and now I'm alone and the only contact I have with her is by my efforts. I know it's not sane to think this but I suspect part of the brainwashing is beyond and outside of the LDS church. Both daughters reject the church and both are sexually confused and living lives that are in a constant change. My eldest daughter came to me and professed to be either gay or bisexual. I love her and accept her no matter what. I have told her this and also have told my younger daughter the same thing. During the past two years of her living with her mother she was statutorily raped, began drinking and using pot and tobacco, running away and has attempted suicide. I'm preparing to go to court one last time even though I know the courts have a tendency to favor the mother. I need help. Is there someone out there that has any knowledge of just how far a disgruntled ex spouse will go and is Hypnotism that far off??? I'm of the belief that there is a cult within the cult of my ex wife's south Pasadena ward. It's horrifiying to think of what she has already done and is continuing to do to remove all love and respect my children once had for me. I'm so lost at times all the therapy and prayers have led me to looking anywhere for answers. Thank you for creating this forum. Gratefully Bill Birney
Glendale CA 2012

of Instructions has pretty specific language about not baptizing without permission and some things about sealing too. Do you need quotes?

The church may have language about not baptizing, but my husband was sealed to his ex stepson, whom he never legally adopted. Somehow, his ex wife managed to get the kid's name changed from his birth father's name to my husband's name. I don't know how it happened, only that it did... and then fifteen years later, the young man changed it back to what it was originally. The action to change his name required a court appearance and fees.

My husband has told me that his ex wife had some paper from the Department of State that listed my husband as the kid's dad, even though legally he never was. I think she got it when she and my husband were in Germany with the military. Somehow, that was accepted as proof of my husband's paternity, even though the boy had a dad. Apparently, the church accepted it as proof, too.

If the man was military then he would have been legally awarded custody if he went to Germany. Yes if the bio parent and step parent has legal and sole custody of the minor they do not need permission from the other bio parent. I was in foster care so the church only needed my mom's permission for me to get baptized as my bio dad didn't have legal custody of me. my foster parents were military and did not have sole custody of me since i award of the state and I could not go to Japan with them

This post is ten years old... and a lot has happened in our situation since then.

In my husband's case, his ex's first husband (and the father of the eldest kid) was also posted in Germany at the time. She divorced him, and then married my husband.

I wasn't in the picture at the time, so I don't know all the details. I just know that he was never adopted, but did have my husband's last name for years. Then he changed it back when he was about 21. They no longer have anything to do with each other.

My TBM ex-wife divorced me. She systematically told the kids how horrible and monstrous I was and threw all kinds of roadblocks in the way of my visitation etc.

Gradually as my kids grew older they began to realize that Dad was an OK guy after all and that Mom was nuts.

All of them were raised by her as TBMs. All of them are now totally out of the Church.

I filed for divorce several months ago. We have not yet set temporary child custody visitation rules. My wife is already turning my children against me. They disappear when I come to visit. My adult daughter told me that my boys are taken out of town when I come to visit. My oldest son won't see or talk to me and my youngest is terrified that he will never see me again.

I am just learning about Parental Alienation and I am worried about my boys. Good luck and keep us informed. I appreciate any information on others experiences.

baura: Thank you for sharing that. It's nice to be able to have hope that things work out well on occasion.

Hang in there if you are being alienated by an ex-spouse. Sometimes you have to just try topick up the pieces and see if your kids will want to have a relaionship in the future. It sucks when a big part of your identity and life is taken from you but things can get better someday.

To help ease the pain I sometimes try to think about how a similar thing could be happening if I were still married to my ex. She could still make my children hate others and myself for imaginary reasons. Teachers, coaches, other moms, people at church....all can be targets of hate and a sick person can make children hate anyone they choose. Children are emotionally dependent on a parent so they are easily manipulated. If they claim their independence someday (and they will) then they will really be disgusted with their mothers behavior.

From the child's perspective:

My dad and stepmom attempted parental alienation by constantly reminding my sister and I that our mom is (was) a useless drug addict and we were SOOOOO much better off living with them than with her. Trouble was, they started that way too late -- we were already teenagers by then. It was obvious to us that they were simply trash talking and trying to convince us that we should be happy living in mormonville with the god squad rather than living with our loving mom who was awesomeness personified.

Okay, my mom wasn't so perfect either (and there were very good reasons we went to live with dad instead of staying with her), but it took me another 20 years to de-heroify her. All my dad and stepmom did was manage to make themselves look like sour-grapes, resentful, mean-spirited douchebags. We were old enough to realize that it's poor form and quite tacky to try to turn kids against one of their parents and they were too brainwashed to realize that what they were doing -- trying to point out the positives -- was really just manipulative and a cheap, ham-handed attempt to win us over. They just looked like jerks to us, which prevented us both from noticing that, actually, our mom was a bit of a narcissist as well.

Parental alienation is real and affects countless children, parents and extended family members every year. I'm sorry you all have first-hand knowledge of this destructive, and heartbreaking, family dynamic.

If you have a second, please check out http://www.afamilysheartbreak.com. I'm confident you'll find the information and many resources valuable.

My nephew is going thru extreme PAS, complete with false accusations of molesting children. It amazes me that his ex-wife loved him enough to have children with him and now she hates him enough to destroy his children. Children are the victims of this masquerade.

Parental Alienation doesn't just turn one parent against another, it leaves grand parents without contact with their grand children, aunts and uncles, and cousins also.

It robs children of their natural parent who, most likely is a good person, demonized by an X wife (usually the wife in my experience). The hate turns to revenge by the wife, in the cases I know about, often making claims that are complete fabrications.

It's a tactic often used in divorce as allegations are difficult to disprove. You can't prove a negative.

Sometimes, the child grows up and begins to understand the dynamics and realizes who the "bad" parent really was.

There is nothing in Mormonism that teaches that kind of behavior yet Mormons do it, both mothers and fathers, especially if one parent leaves their church.

I consider it one of the worse forms of child abuse. Unfortunately, it's not recognized as such.

Parental Alienation is a form of child abuse. It should be a crime that someone goes to prison for.

Men, abused women have this hammered into their heads, so I want to hammer it into yours:

DOCUMENT
DOCUMENT
DOCUMENT
RECORD
DOCUMENT SOME MORE

Without being too sexist here, females grow up defending themselves from males, proving they are "right," on and on, better at English, remembering dates, details, and all of that. Diaries and journals.

When an abused woman is advised to record the details, it can also be cathartic, and she can write paragraphs where a man might write a sentence. Her fears, feelings, and a line-by-line of her perspective, recorded soon after the event, as opposed to his,

"Went to pick up Jason, he wasn't there."

Hers:

"I heard the anger in his voice when he called, and Jason had been telling me how his dad blah blah blah, so I knew Jason would leave before his dad came, but I didn't think he would go without telling me! When his dad banged on the door so hard...."


Even though nearly evey word is a lie, you need a similar record to counter it. The man's one-liner actually lends credence to her lies.

You get the idea. RECORD and DOCUMENT. Parental alienation is abusive to both the alienated parent and children, and you need to show your fears, pain and "bruises" to a court.

I'm sorry courts are so biased. It needs to change. I think there has been some success.

Just a note here - handwritten is better. Shows authenticity. Different writing tools, moods, much better humans and lined notebooks, than neat computer printouts that could have heen created at any time.

It can be the man using parental alienation against the woman too. I know a woman who married in to a wealthy mormon family. After the divorce, the man used his family's money and influence to deamonize his former wife. The kids gained favor in the eyes of his family by joining in the unjustified deamonization of their mother. Eventually, after the kids grew up, the demonization went as far as one of her adult children accusing her of molesting one of her infant grandchildren. No one had ever made this kind of claim about her before that, even her own kids who hated her. After an meeting with the sheriff's office to give her side of events, charges were dropped. There was no evidence and no witnesses, only suspicion by those who had deamonized her.

One of the favored family members from her ex-husband's family actually did molest one of his own daughters. He (a supposed TBM) was convicted and went to prison. When he got out, everyone instantly forgave him and trusted him with their children. Their excuse was that he had repented. Even the daughter that he was convicted of molesting forgave him. Meanwhile, this woman who was never convicted of anything, is still considered to be a terrible child molester by the TBM ex-husband's family. They've used that lie to keep her at a distance and to brainwash the kids for decades now. The parental alienation has even spread to her grandkids now.

The next step after parental alienation is either a failed or a successful malicious prosecution. What happens is that the police and the court systems are illegally manipulated in a way as to be a person's tool to exact illegal revenge against you. If they succede, you get convicted of a crime you didn't commit and they get the satisfaction that you got what they believe you had coming to you, believing the whole time that the means were justified. All of this is justified because you quit believing in the church and quit pretending to believe in it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/26/2016 06:45AM by azsteve.