Now they’re worried about vain repetitions? Just wait until the priest blessing the sacrament inadvertently says the slightest variation to the prayer.
In the temple, will there be any alteration to “oh God, hear the words of my mouth”?
Will young children still be allowed to mispronounce “nourish and strengthen our bodies” while praying over a meal?
I remember first studying the indoctrination and re-education systems of communist countries long ago. As I read and listened, particularly about how China managed things during the Cultural Revolution, it all sounded so very familiar. Then later came Nazi Germany and its Hitler Youth, other civic associations, and thought police.
Mormonism shares more characteristics with totalitarian political movements than with theocentric faiths that emphasize individual morality and responsibility.
Which is why the notion that young people--oops, I mean young men--are unwilling to fulfill their divine duty to go on missions has the Q15 changing their adult diapers more frequently than in the past.
I spent part of my childhood in British Hong Kong. I knew plenty of people who lost relatives to Mao’s cultural revolution. I remember being up at the Chinese border and just the sight of the ChiCom guards triggered bad memories and terror in people.
There’s a certain amount of conformity pushed in the LDS Church but it’s also there in the military and the schools I went to.
It’s a bit silly comparing the LDS church to communist China or Nazi Germany. The LDS Church is annoying and yeah your family is probably going to be upset if you don’t want to be in it anymore but it’s no different in a orthodox Jewish home or any other home where religion is a big part of the family heritage.
The LDS Church hasn’t killed millions of people, they don’t lock you behind a wall or shoot you if you try and leave.
Rubicon Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I spent part of my childhood in British Hong Kong. > I knew plenty of people who lost relatives to > Mao’s cultural revolution. I remember being up > at the Chinese border and just the sight of the > ChiCom guards triggered bad memories and terror in > people.
Yes, that makes sense.
-------------- > There’s a certain amount of conformity pushed in > the LDS Church but it’s also there in the > military and the schools I went to.
There is a difference in technique and extent. The Mormon church, by contrast with the "corporate culture" of the military, uses programmed self-criticism, periodic sexual interrogations, extreme guilt, control of and by family, mandatory cult training on missions, repetitive indoctrination from the age of 1.5 upward for the rest of your life. Those tactics bear more resemblance to extreme political cults than to the armed forces.
--------- > It’s a bit silly comparing the LDS church to > communist China or Nazi Germany. The LDS Church is > annoying and yeah your family is probably going to > be upset if you don’t want to be in it anymore > but it’s no different in a orthodox Jewish home > or any other home where religion is a big part of > the family heritage.
I disagree. The fact that there are other cults masquerading as religions does not mean the LDS church isn't a cult masquerading as religion. What you have done is define the standard, which you call "religion," by reference to the most extreme forms of western faiths and thereby imply that Mormonism isn't unique. But doesn't that vindicate my position? Put simply, you can only put Mormonism in the "normal" category if you define the extreme as normal.
---------------- > The LDS Church hasn’t killed millions of people, > they don’t lock you behind a wall or shoot you > if you try and leave.
You're missing the point. The aspect of totalitarianism that I am comparing to Mormonism has from start to finish been their similar methods of indoctrination and mind control. I have not attempted any comparison of their respective body counts.
"Mormon prayers are nothing but vain repetitions."
So are all prayers of all organized religions. My mom passed away two Saturdays ago, and we held the funeral Mass at the chapel at the Jesuit high school I graduated from. Before the Mass, one of my first cousins recited the Prayers of the Rosary. This involves counting each bead on a Rosary and saying one Lord's prayer followed by (I think) four "Holy Mary, Mother of God" prayers followed by a "Glory" prayer. And you had to do the entire thing word-for-word for each of the (I think it's) twelve beads on the Rosary.
We all did get a laugh, though, as said cousin was using a tablet to keep his place with the prayers--and the cursor kept moving out of his control. So much for divine guidance!
I'm sorry that you lost your mom, Blindguy. I go to the occasional Catholic funeral, and it's all I can do to get through the parts of it that are not personalized to the deceased.
Thank you all for the condolences. The funeral was held a week ago Monday with the burial the following day. We're still muddling our way through the financial aspects (the funeral cost us over $11,000, though the company handling it for us did a great job.)
My mom's greatest contribution to me? That Jesuit high school where the funeral Mass was held. I was the first totally blind person to attend, followed by my younger brother two years later. It was my mom's persistence that got us in there and her willingness to read books to us not available to us in braille, help us with our homework, especially the math, and her willingness to drive us to extracurricular activities that allowed both of us to thrive and succeed there. On that helping us with our math homework--my mom was a math whiz in both high school and college. My younger sighted sister has said (and I agree with her) that had she been born during a more enlightened time, my mom probably would have gotten a very high-paying job with her math background; but that's not how it turned out.
Anyway, thanks again to all of you for your condolences.
Maybe Russ should ask Joseph if he should whitewash the scriptures he said he got straight from God, to remove the blatant racism and white supremacy, but apparently that’s not near as important as correcting the vain repetition of prayers that’s been going on for nearly 200yrs.
I refused to pray in public. I had to as a child, but we only had nighttime prayers and dinner prayers. Breakfast was scattered. I think my dad stopped for coffee and something on the way to teach high school. My brothers had cold cereal and waffles. I didn't eat breakfast.
We didn't do a hell of a lot of praying. I did take note that the prayers I heard in the family were more sincere and not so scripted as the ones at church. I had the bishop in the first ward we were in after we got married assign me to practice praying. I continued to say no. I never prayed in meetings after I turned 18.
I had heard that BYU used to open all classes with prayer, because, you know, everything should be taught with the spirit.
I don't know when that tradition was changed, but I don't think it was too many years before I showed up there in the 1960s. Trying to figure something useful to put in a prayer to open a class on statistical sampling was probably difficult, and most people just spouted 2 or 3 cliches, inJebusnameamen.
Now they only open religion classes with prayer, and as far as I know, BYU never closed classes with prayer. I don't know how we ever managed to get back to our apartments in peace and safety.
>"And please bless all the food we will eat this week, wherever it may be."
Think bigger! Why stop at a week? At breakfast on New Year's Day bless all of the food we will eat this year.
Or... At every baby blessing include "bless all of the food and drink this person will ever consume that it may nourish and strengthen their body, and help them to grow up strong and stalwart in the gospel"
>> And the reason read from the pulpit: We are trying to avoid too many vane repetitions used in prayer. <<
So they don't say as many prayers? Why didn't they just stop the vane repetitions? This could have been a correlation victory!
From the desk of Rusticle M. Nelson:
In an effort to remove vane repetition in prayer, we are implementing the following 'revelation" effective immediately.
"We are thankful for a prophet to lead and guide us" will only be used on the odd days of the month, except in a leap year in which its the even days of the month, or in times famine.
"Strengthen and nourish our bodies" will only be used for breakfast because its the most important meal of the day, and on fast Sundays because you need nourishment after starving for the lord.
"We ask that you bless us" will only be used if you make more than $250,000 a year, because if you have money, you should be blessed and if you don't you need to be tested.
"We ask that you keep us safe while traveling" will only be used for trips within a few miles from your home because that's where most car accidents happen, and you're farther than that you can always call AAA.
"We ask that you soften the hearts of those that have rejected the gospel" will be used only once for any one person. After that, we'll send the missionaries over to wear them down and harass them until they come back. If after several visits their hearts aren't sufficiently soft, you can ask again and we'll repeat the process....I mean the lords work.
I've never understood the necessity of prayer. I understand chanting, mantras, making sounds as a spiritual activity but not prayer.
This seems like a good direction. For me prayer was like reading a book out loud to for someone. If you are just doing it for yourself you don't need a formula, simile sounds, but just a feeling to connect to whatever it is you worship and you're thoughts. Prayer is either a breakdown appealing to God or pretensions to communication with a being that knows you so well God knows what you will do before you. Pretty petty to require outward signs of piety.
I think this will backfire. Of all the changes that are desperately needed in the Mormon church, Nelson announces that some opening prayers will be eliminated because of vain repetition? Will it make members question how many other of the myriad prayers uttered throughout the day are also vain repetitions? Maybe church every Sunday is a vain repetition.
It's also peculiar that only those in leadership positions will be called on to offer the closing prayer. What's that all about?
> It's also peculiar that only those in leadership > positions will be called on to offer the closing > prayer. What's that all about?
I just found out about this a couple days ago. Awhile back, my Mom was asked to close the RS meeting. This is common practice so members don't feel ambushed or startled, also a member can politely decline.
At the end of the meeting, she stood up in preparation of offering a closing a closing prayer and the sister in charge called upon the RS president to close the meeting. It was embarrassing for her. Since then she has noticed that only current leaders or former leaders are the ones praying.