Had a silly thought this morning about all the justifications for the WoW about coffee and tea being definers for a TR. I was told growing up that it was the caffeine and that they were hot drinks, but nobody stopped us from having hot chocolate (which is both hot and has caffeine in it as well). And it made it an odd bit of cognitive dissonance to say "no tea or coffee" but then energy drinks and soda is perfectly fine. For some. I know some TBMs take that no caffeine fine print more seriously than others.

But can you imagine if Mormons were allowed to have tea and coffee? Especially if it were a new change and suddenly they were just allowed to now. With how uptight they are, all that stress from shame cycles and worrying about the end of the world, I couldn't see adding such a commonplace and easily accessible avenue of caffeine helping at all.

Their dirty soda addictions are comical substitution to the tea and coffee thing.

Ironically, having lived now around so many nonmembers it is more comical the hot drink prohibition.

Society functions with alcohol which is way more dangerous. Modern Western Civilization might be partly evolved from historical use of alcohol.

Mormons area not a special people free from drink addiction.

Who knows why the church made coffee and tea tabu. I would expect those were expensive in the day and they are addictive. It's much like the Jews forbidding pork. Maybe there was a reason for it a long time ago but in today's world it's outdated and silly.

Thanks for pointing out that energy drinks are ok. I’d never thought about that. I guess it’s because they are drunk cold which erases the addictive component.

The Lord's. Law of health?

Nope. It's about control and especially about an easy way to separate the "worthy" from the "unworthy" in a church interview.

Yeah, it makes it intentionally confusing when they say "no tea or coffee" but won't define why. Like, the fact that my sister seemed under the impression that decaffeinated coffee was okay or that herbal tea was alright. So, it's very muddy and keeps members in the dark about why rules are in place.

For instance, I don't think the change to take out descriptions of clothing or tattoos or piercings from the Strength for Youth is a good change. I think it's more muddying the waters and cleaning the hands of authority. "We didn't give that rule specifically." No, maybe not. But it is enforced culturally by members and local leaders. The shaming doesn't just come from nowhere.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/15/2022 03:11PM by blackcoatsdaughter.

"Blind Obedience is the only kind of obedience that ghawd can respect.  Or at least that's what the leaders who want blind obedience teach their herds.  It's amazing how that works!"

--Judic West, in his teen-angst novella, "Ode to What was Owed"

ChurchCo has always been Fussy about fine details while glossing over such as Kindness & Honesty.

At some point leaders realized that coffee & tea (imported, cannot be grown by members) were or would be a drain on money for the church

Speaking of...one of my favorite usernames was (is?) "Tupperwhere." Haven't heard from her in quite a while.

I’ve gone round in circles with my TBM wife and missionaries,
Drink manufacturers extract caffeine from coffee, and put it in energy drinks, it’s ok to drink,
Decaf coffee not ok, is it because coffee is hot? (this is actually the reason, JS thought hot drinks was bad for your throat and stomach) they can’t give a good answer

Back in the early 70s, the FB sent out a SM letter saying de-caf was OK; today it's far down the memory hole!!!

She really drank decaf coffee. And then there was one hellacious Relief Society meeting where the true members put all the WoW violators to shame~ No coffee period. This was about 1980 or 1981.

Just make the WoW a temperature deal. No hot stuff period; including hot soups, hot tea and hot coffee and hot chocolate and hot food (including hot dogs). But anything cold is fine and dandy. Think of all the church marriages that could be saved by serving frozen foods that anyone could serve- and the church has been setting this trend for years- no cooking on church stoves in meetinghouses! Eating frozen food is the way to go.

Where does the Lard come down on Hot Sauce? Louisiana, Tabasco, all those lesser spicy condiments? I need continuing revelation on these issues of the day, damnit!!!

What about noodles boiled in hot water then frozen? Where is a JS when you need one? Rusty....make it revealed to the world Rusty!!! Restore unto us this day the plain and precious truths of the WOW that heretofore have been held back for His chosen people.

I drink coffee black, just how the Lord intended. My better half cannot argue that it is better than all the energy drinks I was consuming. Shows how stupid the church is about this stuff when you take away the blind obedience thing they are really going for.

The point of ambiguity is that members must rely on leadership for clarification and by extension their salvation.

Ever shifting doctrine means an increase in dependency of the drones on the leaders and reduces their ability to guide their own actions and have independent thought.

This is a very important point.

The church has been cleaning up its offensive doctrines and policies for public consumption. No longer is masturbation to be discussed in worthiness interviews; no longer are piercings and tattoos prohibited explicitly. So now the Handbook isn't as embarrassing and doesn't invite public ridicule when its contents are exposed.

But the rules are still the same. The old rules about sexual behavior are still taught in seminary and institute and in the children's Sunday classes, which means that when the bishop asks about the law of chastity in an interview everyone knows exactly what he means and that he will enforce it. The same is true of tattoos. There is no expansion in the realm of personal autonomy.

Imprecision in fact increases the power of the administrator rather than decreasing it because he has more room to impose his own judgment. In religion as in law and politics, a reduction in written rules results in more arbitrary and even capricious authority.

Lions, Tigers, and Bears! Oh My!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sED4fzIV0k

Dr. Peter Venkman: This city is headed for a disaster of biblical proportions.

Mayor: What do you mean, “biblical”?

Dr Ray Stantz: What he means is Old Testament, Mr. Mayor, real wrath of God type stuff.

Dr. Peter Venkman: Exactly.

Dr Ray Stantz: Fire and brimstone coming down from the skies! Rivers and seas boiling!

Dr. Egon Spengler: Forty years of darkness! Earthquakes, volcanoes…

Winston Zeddemore: The dead rising from the grave!

Dr. Peter Venkman: Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together… mass hysteria!