A a kid growing up in England this was always an exciting time of the year that we looked forward to with childish innocence generally oblivious to the gruesome event we were celebrating.

In 1605 a group of Catholic plotters led by a man called Guy Fawkes and others filled the basement of parliament in London with enough gunpowder to blow all of parliament, together with King James and his household, to oblivion. The plotters were discovered before they could light the fuse and they suffered an appalling fate. Most were hung, drawn, and quartered. The most famous is Guy Fawkes whose remains were burned at the stake.

From that day the event has been celebrated on November 5 as effigies of Fawkes are burnt on celebratory bonfires amid fireworks displays. As kids we carefully built our "guy" with old clothes stuffed with newspaper and placed him atop the bonfire. Usually it was so cold and damp at that time of year that the bonfire was a welcome heater. In the years after WW2 there was no money for fireworks, even if you could find them, but we had fun anyway.

Remember, remember, the 5th of November
Gunpowder, treason and plot.

It is interesting to reflect how different England's history might have been had the plotters been successful. Would it have reverted to Catholicism? Would it have been the end of parliament? Would a different royal line be on the throne today?

Children will likely give little thought to this at the weekend when bonfires are lit and fireworks explode across England. Nor should they, but the establishment never forgets which is why when the Crown opens parliament each year the basement is still searched by armed guard before the event.

Wish I was there.

...We see no reason
Why gunpowder treason
Should ever be forgot.


I first heard about Guy Fawkes Night when I somewhat by coincidence/accident was listening to the radio program Ideas on CBC, when they ran a series of Massey Lectures by one Ronald Wright. It was arguably the finest set of lectures I ever heard, which is saying something in this era of TEDTalks and Ken Burns.

Mr Wright opened his first lecture by noting that he was raised in Great Britain and the night of the lecture was Nov 5, and he recited the lines Kentish posted.

Mr Wright has a very distinctive voice and his topics were very similar to Jared Diamond's Guns, Germs and Steel, a favorite on this forum. I never cared for Jared Diamond's spoken delivery though I liked his books.

If I can make a plug for this 5 hour (in 5 segments) podcast, I think it is the only radio program of anywhere near that length that I have listened to all the way through, and I am sure it is the only one I have listened to multiple times. And as I said, the topic is pretty relevant to RFM. And the treason and terrorism of Guy Fawkes reminds us that terrorism has been with us for a very long time.

https://www.cbc.ca/radio/ideas/the-2004-cbc-massey-lectures-a-short-history-of-progress-1.2946872

The comment on Guy Fawkes Night was basically his opening sentence, so you might take a moment to listen to that. We Americans are always fascinated by a good British accent. :)

Wow. Thanks for that link. I've started listening. It already has me interested.

Remember, remember, the 5th of November,

Gunpowder, treason and plot.

I see no reason

Why gunpowder treason

Should ever be forgot.

Guy Fawkes, Guy Fawkes, 'twas his intent

To blow up the King and the Parliament

Three score barrels of powder below

Poor old England to overthrow

By God's providence he was catch'd

With a dark lantern and burning match

Holler boys, holler boys, let the bells ring

Holler boys, holler boys

God save the King!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/05/2022 01:05PM by anybody.

Fawkes was fighting to establish a catholic theocracy.

Maybe he would have fit right in with the other Catholics as one of the SUPREMES in the USA today!

Yup !

After Henry V111 the country went back and forth between Catholicism and Protestantism depending on the persuasion of the monarch. James 1 (James V1) of Scotland instituted various laws that Catholics saw as punitive to them specifically and the Gunpowder Plot was a response to that. I find it interesting to speculate how history could be different and enjoy alternate history. None of which matters a jot in remembering good times as a kid.

The English half of me loves Guy Fawkes Day for no other reason than it's my birthday. My British ancestors tended to be Methodists and Baptists, at least after Henry VIII when you didn't have to be a Catholic anymore. Always wish I could be in Britain somewhere on Guy Fawkes Day.

And I wish I'd known about it as a kid.

It was probably a different experience in country areas. There were plenty of bomb sites in my area of London (often cleared of any rubble) and they gave us plenty of room to build massive bonfires. Pollution laws have probably killed much of the fun with bonfires u less community ones. Didn't know too many Catholics growing up but those I did know were part of the fun .

I learned about Guy Fawkes day reading Mary Poppins

Sometimes Catholic God blesses your efforts to blow up parliament, sometimes He doesn't.

The confirmation of the Holy Spirit could have been bad Fish and Chips.

Guy Faukes Day was the most pyromaniac event I ever witnessed next to Chinese New Year. Most people could care less about what a holiday means. Especially when fireworks are involved. It’s about getting drunk, lighting stuff on fire, blowing stuff up and if you are lucky you get laid later. It’s an excuse to blow off some steam and have some fun and that’s always a good thing.

Read about Guy Fawkes when I read an article about the King James Bible. After that I never liked the popular cultural use of the Guy Fawkes mask. Especially the use of the mask by political protesters.

While a penny’s worth of cheese will no longer choke the pope, a pint of beer will always wash it down.

(Looking at the other side of this story, and given the ubiquity of blind bootlicking today, we should never forget how the English treated their recusants.)

Funny how humans love holidays when they get to blow up stuff!

dagny Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Funny how humans love holidays when they get to
> blow up stuff!


:)

Mormonism is the snakes and sparklers of religion.

It's not what you want, it's the consumer.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vyOn_F2PYvw

England was a very, very, Catholic country -- that within a few generations became rabidly Protestant...and that also influenced the history of America.


https://museeprotestant.org/en/notice/protestantism-in-england-in-the-16th-century-separation-from-rome/

Many years ago when Candid Camera was the hot TV show in Britain one of their most amusing pieces involved a shady individual carrying a barrel marked by gunpowder and asking people for directions to the basement of the parliament building. There were plenty of helpers.

Guy Fawkes Night is a quasi-pagan festival. It happens around the same time as Halloween and mannequins are often hurned on the bonfires like a substitute human sacrifice. I think it was a Protestant co-option of the old Celtic fire festival.

Hardly. In those barbaric times burning was often part of the fate of those demonstrably out of step with the prevailing religious order.

My understanding is they did it anyway. I don't think the blood thirstiness was confined to Britain.

I've always heard/thought that Guy Fawkes was hanged, drawn and quartered. Apparently, though, that was his sentence but he actually escaped the worst part by dying of a broken neck when he was hanged.

I can't quite believe I could possibly be descended from such bloodthirstiness as those ancient Brits displayed. And not really all that ancient.

You sure couldn't be squeamish in those days. Yow and yuck. I don't get the fixation on disembowelment. Messy.

Mormons had their blood atonement. Fortunately for us, they don't go Chucky on apostates anymore.

I think people were usually killed by the hanging (the drop...) and the drawing and quartering were more a question of shaming and defiling the deceased post mortem. It doesn't make any of them nicer people, though.

Yes, that's right.