The Gay Men’s Choir of Washington DC performs at the Washington DC temple visitors center for the Christmas celebration. The For Young Men Only pamphlets are gone and Boyd K Packer is dead. What legacy did Elder Packer leave on the church? Not much. I think people are glad he’s gone. Seems like market research, public opinion and wanting to avoid losing tax exempt status guides the church more than old crusty apostles do.

Their well-paid advertising and public relations handlers assure church leaders that yours is a minority view, and that the world loves and esteems clean-shaven, pious men-in-suits.

Plus, research shows that many, maybe even half, of those who attend church regularly, do so by choice!!

other churches; most recently touting a musical group and they church they represent.

Not too many years ago one would have fell over dead to see this.

It IS all related to market research and public opinion. Very interesting, indeed.

>wanting to avoid losing tax exempt status

Oh, good grief. Why do people keep saying that? The only time LDS Inc's tax status was ever in jeopardy was back in the days of polygamy, which technically was before there was an income tax. The federales tried to dissolve the entire church over polygamy.

In modern times (since WWI-ish) their tax status has never been in jeopardy - not over Blacks and the priesthood, not over women and the priesthood, not over LGBTQ and the priesthood, and not over Cheerios in Sacrament Meeting.

I have no hope of getting people to stop saying that LDS Inc did X to avoid losing their tax exempt status, because it seems to be exMos' favorite wet dream. LDS Inc is going to lose its tax exempt status.

There does seem to be a fair to middling chance they will be in some trouble with Australian law, but I am sure they will find some way to contort themselves to come into line with Australian charity requirements. But in the US? Fuggedaboutit. They are bulletproof.

The BYUs may have to worry a bit. The church itself, at least in the US, not at all, IMHO.

Oh, I don't know. As the rise of the "nones" progresses in the U.S., non-religious people might be willing to take a second look at churches automatically getting the tax exemption.

I personally would favor limiting the tax exemption, and putting certain requirements on churches in return for tax breaks.

Yes, but that would be a problem for all religions and not just for the LDS church--in which case nothing the LDS church does will make a difference.

Do you agree they do things to maintain federal funding such as the amendment in the marriage act to protect BYU for example?

Sometimes when it comes to religion, I often sloppily lump together getting government money for things with getting government tax breaks. I do think religion carefully navigates in both areas.

Of course they do. Do you honestly think the church invites the Gay Men of Washington DC Choir to sing at the temple because the members will like it? It’s a PR move because the political climate has changed. Boyd K Packer would be having a tizzy over this.

I generally agree that Boyd's day has passed. that said, Bednar appears to be Boyd 2.0.

I’ve never heard Bednar talk about dicks but he seems to be one.

Poor Boyd must be wanking in his grave.

Best come back of the day!

I considered the spelling I'd use for that one word...hmmm

Packer transformed Mormonism. Many of his particular speeches and practices have gone by the wayside, but the police state remains.

Mormonism will never recover from the cookie-cutter thinking of Kimball, the cynical public relations and mainstreaming of Hinckley, and the Stasi brutality of Packer. Those men collectively cost the religion a generation of committed believers, many of whom grace this board.

You can change an organization by grooming the children. If you want to see where the church is going in the future look at what the kids are being taught.

After I gained adulthood and truly became a non believer I came to understand that the cult's "rules" (that seemed to dictate minute details of the lives of most of the Mormons I knew) were totally bogus and completely unenforceable as they applied to my life. That was a freeing moment.

Packer wrote a letter to mission presidents to emphasize that missionaries need to limit or restrict their phone calls on Christmas and Mother's Day to only to a few minutes.

The rationale? It was too distracting to the work and...

Drum role please ===> It was too costly for families.

Here's a corporation being paid 350 a month to cover missionary expenses and the Mormon family or ward sponsor pays another 3-4K in missionary clothing, bicycles, scriptures.

The church pays almost nothing, but the young man/ young woman pays a lot to conform to LDS Missionary culture. I was told to buy a planner and not just any portable planner but the real pricey one~ Franklin Planner.

Here's the BKP letter from 2000

https://mormonleaks.io/wiki/documents/2/22/Missionaries_Communications_with_Their_Families-2000-10-26.pdf

I truly hope BKP is enjoying his time in Satan's furnace.

Lethbridge Reprobate Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I truly hope BKP is enjoying his time in Satan's
> furnace.

Whether members were trying to understand homosexuality or trapped in a youth program which determined any normal experience with puberty was a sin, BKP wrecked the church.

I hope he's rotting in his grave.

That too!

So true... BKP messed up so many lives.

I feel sorry for Satan if he’s stuck with Boyd.

I hope it isn't lost on the members and the people who view the Xmas presentation how sick it is that gay guys are allowed to entertain on temple grounds, but are not allowed inside.

in b 4 ~


they are not entertaining ~


an ~



they are not allowed inside ~

You forget the Boyd KKK Packer Memorial Temple in Brigham City. Land owned by the Packer Clan Real Estate Company(promised to be a business center - tore down an elementary school for the project) was used for it.

Boyd had his day.

But it hasn't been thrown into the dustbin. Yes, the COB has stopped printing his speeches and pamphlets, but, as usual, they never have- and never will- tell the members that BKP was wrong. So his legacy will endure to the end of time. That's how they roll. So you will still have bishops making young men feel like sh!t for normal sexual urges. You will still have funerals in the shape of Sacrament Meetings. And on and on. Nothing will change- not really.

Very true. Virtually all of the old "doctrines" live on to be resurrected at will by ambitious clergy or maverick seminary and institute teachers.

Because the church never takes responsibility to fix its mistakes, the harm never stops.

It seems like it was only yesterday when I politely asked, “¿Órale, where all da White women at?”, and was flown from Mexico City to SLC, and then driven down to enroll in the Y.

And there they were!

Let me guess.

Before you knew it, you were playing on the university soccer team and the cheerleaders were giggling at your sombrero.

You might have done better simply going to the studious floor of the library and waiting for dagny who, fresh from having broken the heart of an ill-starred football player, would have approached you and commented on how fetchingly intelligent you looked.

I’m sure 14 year old Dagny Taggart was cute, but I am broken, not bent.

Yes, it's true. You've exposed my MO.
I would have spotted elderolddog quietly studying and checked him out to see if he had other qualifying signs, like garment lines.

Haha. That image is hard to imagine.

than their parents knew in high school and college or their grandparents did as adults.

The church is run like a business, so I don't expect anything more of church leaders than I would of your average corporate CEO. They can run a large organization (or not,) and that's it. They are hardly spiritual giants.

It's just about become impossible to compare *Church Leaders* to any other group without it becoming insulting to whatever that other group is.

Dem fax is tru.

Here's what I have read/learned about his church legacy. Feel free to add or correct this list.

For the strength of the youth - already discussed his hatred of gays and little factory talks

Music- he was instrumental in developing the then new hymnal of 1984-1985. Many songs were "dumped" because they were not spiritual enough. Some songs had their lyrics corrected. Joy to the World has many Mormon tweaks.

BKP also was behind the idea of white shirts for sacrament and Mormon standards for church dances.

And do you recall that the church had a banned list of songs? Yes, he was on that committee as well.

Primary- he was behind the deliberate scripture reading during primary pageants. The church moved away from children singing.

He also was behind primary graduation standards- At 12 years, the young man/woman would receive a diploma but only if they could recite the Articles of Faith perfectly.

The idea that every church activity must have a spiritual purpose.

Those lesson manuals and scope/sequence of what was to be taught on what day. BKP hated personally developed lessons taught in Sunday School, PH and RS. Stick to the lesson!