When you want in, but they dont want you.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-63923460

Anne Tropeano is ironing her clothes in preparation for a busy day ahead. She gets out her white alb and her ornately embroidered chasuble, garments worn by Catholic priests around the world. On a calendar on her wall, bold red pen marks that tomorrow is "Ordination day".

But she is also on the phone hiring a security guard for the service in a church in Albuquerque, New Mexico, where she lives - as she anticipates there could be hostility.

"It's a tense issue, not everybody is open to even considering the possibility of women being called to priesthood," she says. It's not only harassment in person that Tropeano is concerned about. Since sharing her hopes of becoming a Catholic priest, she says she's experienced "breath-taking" online harassment.

Tropeano is one of over 250 women across the world who are part of the Roman Catholic woman priest movement, a group who are taking part in unauthorised ordination services to become priests, in an act of defiance against the Roman Catholic Church.

The Catholic Church does not allow women to be priests. In fact, the Vatican sees it as a serious crime in canon law that is punishable by excommunication. This means the women, once they've taken part in an 'ordination', are unable to receive the sacraments, including communion, or have a church funeral.

How inconvenient it is that the early church had women clergy, one of whom Paul praised in one of his epistles. Things would be so much easier if Jesus and the church fathers had gotten with the program.

Why not just start your own church (With blackjack and hookers) if you want to be a priest so bad?

If the rules come from your deity and they don't wish for woman to be ordained is that not the end of it? If not then why not just start your own club that allows it, or just be Anglican?

I feel it is like flying to a World Cup match and complaining that this is not the NFL and making a huge protest about it, when I could have just used the time, money and energy to buy NFL tickets

Women being too uppity for your comfort?

“Uppitiness is an attitude with which I will not upput!”

--Brother of Jerry

That is not anyway close to what I said, but go off.

Oh, really?

Suggesting they start their own church with hookers and blackjack (blackjack?? And hookers? Why would they need hookers? Or are you saying that's the only way you might be interested?) seems hostile, and very dismissive. That's not even dog whistle misogyny.

Rosa Parks should have just bought her own damn bus.

You might read this:
https://www.amazon.com/Good-Catholic-Girls-Leading-Change/dp/0060570636/ref=sr_1_1

The hardcover came out about 1980, so women trying to reform the Catholic Church is hardly a new thing.

The author did another book about 1984 named The Choices We Made, which was interviews with prominent women who had had abortions. That book had a bit of a revival this year, what with the SCOTUS pulling the rug out from under Roe, and all. She was on Oprah in 1985 with Polly Bergen (former actress, and CEO of Pepsi at the time) and Rita Moreno, two of the women interviewed in the book. The author was one of the Catholic friends I had when growing up, which is why I still recall those 40 year old books.

Brother Of Jerry Wrote:
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> Rosa Parks should have just bought her own damn
> bus.

Profound.

Not even a little bit

Northern_Lights Wrote:
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> Not even a little bit

I disagree.

BoJ's brief comment summarizes an entire historical event and all that led up to it and came out of it. That's not only clever but thought-provoking.

Or at least that's the way I read it and the effect it had on me.

As someone who writes long on nearly every subject to try and ensure that I cover and explain every facet of the whole darn thing, I appreciate a pithy comment, especially regarding deeply impactful occurrences. Undoubtedly, so too do many readers.

In particular re this thread, I was looking at BoJ's post with a wider view than seeing only the specific topic of the opening post.

I didn't have time this a.m. to flesh out my comment. Coming back to it, I don't think it even needs any editing. I like it as is.

You missed the joke as well as my point.
I would be dismissive any anybody man or woman who wants to play dress up and pretend and fleece people out of their money, the woman are not every pretending they believe in the church the report to serve because there is a process to change that they are not following.

Northern_Lights Wrote:
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> . . .the woman are not every
> pretending they believe in the church . . .

How do you know what those women believe?

Look, I do not believe in any type of God or deity which is why I am not a part of any church. If you are going to hedge your spiritual bet a choose a church you must at least accept that the god that church is worshiping is in charge right? I mean if not find a different one.

The Catholic god does not want woman priests. If they did they would tell their pope to authorize it. Churches by nature are not democracies and in fact are the antithesis of democratic institutions.

Churches are just clubs to join so are not required to extend the same rights and freedoms as governments. They are for dress up and pretend so can be left at will, unlike governments where a person can't just do their own thing or move.

I fail to see how this is any different than joining the rose growing club submitting a carnation and complaining about being disqualified. If you wish to grown carnations join the right club.

The misogyny is so deep in Catholicism that I think they will have married male priests long before they consider female priests.

I fear you are right.

Northern_Lights Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> I fail to see how this is any different than
> joining the rose growing club submitting a
> carnation and complaining about being
> disqualified. If you wish to grown carnations
> join the right club.

Or not. These things are a matter of personal conscience.

Was Rosa Parks wrong to insist on sitting where she wanted on that bus or should she have moved to a country where that was allowed?

Should Sir Thomas More have left England when his "club" changed its membership rules?

Should the American revolutionaries have shut up and accepted the rules of the country into which they were born?

>
> Was Rosa Parks wrong to insist on sitting where
> she wanted on that bus or should she have moved to
> a country where that was allowed?
>
> Should Sir Thomas More have left England when his
> "club" changed its membership rules?
>
> Should the American revolutionaries have shut up
> and accepted the rules of the country into which
> they were born?

No, because these are examples of real life not made up cos-play which is all church is. They can dress up and play pretend in some other club that allows them do so, and steal all the money they want from those foolish enough to donate.

Really?

Thomas More was not executed over a dispute about made-up religion--in fact the very Catholicism that the women you disparage are fighting?

You're betraying your historical ignorance here.

Sorry, not buying it. Churches are social and cultural organizations. If you see one that you think is injurious to yourself, itself, or others, you can walk away or you can try and change it. Both are legitimate options.

I walked away from Mormonism, but I also hope it will change, and offer whatever support I can to seeing it change. People don't have to "believe" in something to want it to stop damaging people.

Also, the prohibition on black people from sitting at the front of the bus is also a social construct, as is the obligation of an individual to obey his overseas "masters." These things are all social systems whose legitimacy stems from the authority of tradition.

Rebellion against the precepts of one's religion is functionally indistinguishable from rebellion against a country's arbitrary rules.

I'm a priest. It's highly overrated.

I only made it to Deacon but I serve a mean sacrament.

They can always join the Episcopal church as they ordain women as priests, and some even become bishops which are in charge of much larger areas than a Mormon stake.

That's true, but some women want to push the boundaries. The Catholic church is *their* church, and they want to push for change.

Doing a job that is dominated by men, believing is something that doesn't exist and no sex. I can't believe there aren't more woman signing up for this...

Funny, moe.

meanwhile, at the COB,,,