When I went through the temple the first time the temple president explained that a covenant was a binding agreement and the endowment was us making a contract with the Lord. He honors his part of the contract if we honor ours. An endowment is an inheritance of assets. Covenants and endowments are legal terms and with legal contracts wording is very important.

So this eternal contract of endowment has had its wording regarding covenants changed. You change the terms of contract, you void the previous agreements. It’s not just to have people in the past agree to something and then have newer people agree to something else. This is not eternal. This is temporary and fluid.

For the endowment covenants to be eternal they cannot change. So the church just neutered their own concept of eternal agreements and promises. It’s just more proof it’s all bullshit. Eternal means NO CHANGE. I’m glad members love the new changes. Apparently they love the church proving nothing performed in the temple is eternal.

I don’t know about Jesus but Buddha said everything changes. I think the temple is more in line with Buddha than Christ.

Rubicon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> When I went through the temple the first time the
> temple president explained that a covenant was a
> binding agreement and the endowment was us making
> a contract with the Lord.

> So this eternal contract of endowment has had its
> wording regarding covenants changed. You change
> the terms of contract, you void the previous
> agreements. It’s not just to have people in the
> past agree to something and then have newer people
> agree to something else. This is not eternal. This
> is temporary and fluid.

> For the endowment covenants to be eternal they
> cannot change.

> Eternal means NO CHANGE.


Good points re the legality of contracts and the meaning of eternal.

Here are some Bible verses that emphasize the concepts of consistency and eternity:

Hebrews 13:8 NIV: “Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.”

Malachi 3:6 ESV: “For I the Lord do not change...”

Isaiah 40:8 ESV: “The grass withers, the flower fades, but the word of our God will stand forever.”

James 1:17 NIV: “Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows.”

Numbers 23:19 NIV: “God is not human, that he should lie, not a human being, that he should change his mind. Does he speak and then not act? Does he promise and not fulfill?”

Psalm 119:89 NIV: “Your word, LORD, is eternal; it stands firm in the heavens.”

-----

"Shifting shadows" - That is a good description, in my experience, of the changing program in the Mormon temple. I remember the room as being dark when the play was on (but I'm not sure if it actually was dark) and not understanding what the heck it was all about so, again, "shadows" - that resonates with me.

Mormon leadership is a little bit stuck - how are they going to explain why the temple ceremony needs to be updated? It's not in line with the general concept of an eternal God or of sacred unchangeable temple rituals.

If you find out that what you are agreeing to is a fraud then the contract is nullified

Another excellent point.

I wonder if the head guys think that the changes will have a side benefit of inspiring more members to attend again so they can see what's up and "renew" their previous oaths.

Can you renew your previous oaths by going in again if you take someone else's name in order to even get a chance of returning? Like, I think the original contracts we all made are still voided unless we go through as just ourselves with no genealogy in hand.

You don’t renew previous oaths in the temple. You are taking oaths by proxy for someone who is dead. The problem is God is making his children agree to different covenants. Some women made the covenant to follow their husbands while women today make covenants to follow God. If God is just, everyone has to receive the same covenants or it’s unfair and unjust.

Basically the whole temple thing mocks God. Maybe that’s why Moroni has a lightning rod inside him on the temple spire.

Contracts made under duress are void too?

They are also void if you were drunk. If anyone took their endowments out while under the influence you are exempt from the oaths you took.

the LDS church leaders have a documented history of lies & obfuscation to the members & others, yet they demand obedience & pretend credibility.

Nice short summary on what the church is.

When I went through the temple it said "even you own life for the building of the kingdom".The temple prep class did not mention that part and I remember thinking I don't want to give my own life for Mormonism. Why can't God build his kingdom without my life? But it was day day before my wedding so I bowed my head and said yes.

I hear Meat Loaf singing. I will do anything for love but I won’t do that.

When I (briefly) lived in Toledo, Ohio, members were instructed that to ‘get credit’ for temple attendance, they Must / could only attend sessions at Columbus Temple which is 129 miles from the Toledo chapel, has toll roads…

The Detroit Temple is 75 miles away, No Toll Roads…

It’s all part of Ghawds Plan, ya know !!

All contracts regarding unicorns are null and void.

LDS Inc is selling unicorns.

What the church is selling is nowhere near as cool as unicorns.

Holland has said that the ordinance itself doesn't change, just the form of the ordinance. Which makes no sense. It's like saying that he's not a special witness of Jesus Christ, but a special witness of the name of Jesus Christ… oh wait, he did that too.

a Wink is as good as a nod to a blind horse



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 02/18/2023 07:55PM by GNPE.

Dave McKay said anyone who wanted a temple recommend had to BE HONEST & a good Christian…


In my memory Russ & his band of cowardly lions even struck a blow at Basic Right/Wrong by diluting the Honesty thingee, now applicants - candidates need only ‘strive to be honest’…


If that isn’t telling, what might or could be?

You would think a Yale graduate would be smarter than that. Oaks should know better. He’s a lawyer. Anyways anything goes in the house of Elohim. He’s like Bob Ross. It’s his world and he’s going to paint it the way he wants to. Or at least Russ thinks he’s Bob Ross.

Scientology is even worse. They actually do get its members in REAL legally binding contracts where LDS Inc. Is Mr. Roger’s land of make believe. But the LDS Church paints the illusion it actually has legal authority in God’s universe.

They love to say we have all the authority, we have all the keys, temple covenants are legally binding under God’s law. Ok. Want to paint the legal illusion we’ll play the game right. Eternal means forever and once you change something it’s no longer eternal.

But the dummies in the church get all excited about changes because deep down they hate the temple shit. It’s weird and boring but what keeps them going is peer presser and ego. Who loves the temple publicly the most is the ward showoff.

Want to learn human psychology. Study the Mormons. Look at everything at every angle. There’s a lot of go along to get along and very little actual belief. Anything that makes that weird temple shit less invasive and easier it welcomed. That’s all it is. Most members would love more stuff cut out. Most members would love another hour of church nixed. They love seeing the church whittled away with a thousand cuts because deep down they think the church sucks.

Maybe Russ deep down knows it sucks. It sucks but he also uses the organization to stroke his huge ego. So in a weird subliminal way, he’s destroying the parade float he does his song and dance on. Maybe he’s addicted to seeing the responses and getting the praise for every little bit of destruction he does.

Russ is like Nero. He’s burning Rome down so he can rebuild it. No other prophet has ordered the destruction of a temple so another one can be built. No other prophets have inferred that past prophets were under the influence of Lucifer because they promoted the church using the term Mormon.

Ha! Ha! Russ is an exMormon dream. I’m kicking back watching it all and laughing my ass off. Meanwhile the stuck in church members continue to pull on the oars and row the emperors’s boat like a bunch of zombies. I’m watching western civilization and the LDS Church both implode at the same time. It’s a dark comedy. If there is a God they have some great entertainment in the ant farm to watch.

They sell their tokens for money.

There is no change.
It is "heaven inspired ongoing restoration" for our time...

Nemo the Mormon has a great short video on these changes; but he also shows a video by Oaks saying; The personal covenants you made are till in effect. So now there's 4 types of endowed Mormons? Those who went through, prior to the penalties being taken out; those women who covenanted to obey and give their opportunity to gain the Celestial kingdom to their husbands; today's endowed members will be making less sexist, misogynistic covenants...and now when you go through you no longer are standing in proxy for "XXX who is dead". The fourth is those who got the super secret 2nd endowment/anointing.

So no longer can any missionary, leader claim that the rites, tokens, etc... are ancient and tie all the way back to the original Hebrew temple rites. They even discuss the masonic symbols as "nonsensical" and have no power or meaning. I guess some of the temple paintings are now showing more people of color and in the movie they even put in "a token" African-American woman in part of the film.

Also they have Adam and Eve now being fully clothed in temple garb which I guess is a way to rid the tittering/tantalizing Adam/Eve boob shots with their porn shoulders.

I applaud the corporation to try to be more accepting of different races, and gender roles being empowered...but it also shows how we were indoctrinated in such racist/misogynistic principles and doctrine. It all turns out to be nothing more than the church being ran by lawyers, surveys and geriatric leaders who are so out of touch with their own gaslighting teachings.