Below is a small sampling of the Bible verses (the way they've been translated and interpreted) that refer to women remaining silent in church. These are the teachings of the more fundamentalist types of churches of my acquaintance. (I was a bit SOL due to being single - I couldn't "go home and ask [my] husband" to impart his wisdom please and thank you).
(English Standard Version):
1 Corinthians 14:34-35:
"The women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says. If there is anything they desire to learn, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church."
1 Timothy 2:11-14:
"Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet. For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor."
1 Corinthians 14:33-35:
"For God is not a God of confusion but of peace. As in all the churches of the saints, the women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says. If there is anything they desire to learn, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church."
Just a little extra seasoning to brighten your day:
Proverbs 27:15:
"A continual dripping on a rainy day and a quarrelsome wife are alike."
Women in the Early Church
From PBS: Frontline
Experts re the role of women in the early church (long article):
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/religion/first/women.htmlExcerpts:
“Euodia and Syntyche are called his fellow-workers in the gospel (Philippians 4:2-3). Here is clear evidence of women apostles active in the earliest work of spreading the Christian message.
“Paul's letters also offer some important glimpses into the inner workings of ancient Christian churches. These groups did not own church buildings but met in homes, no doubt due in part to the fact that Christianity was not legal in the Roman world of its day and in part because of the enormous expense to such fledgling societies. Such homes were a domain in which women played key roles. It is not surprising then to see women taking leadership roles in house churches.
“Paul tells of women who were the leaders of such house churches (Apphia in Philemon 2; Prisca in I Corinthians 16:19). This practice is confirmed by other texts that also mention women who headed churches in their homes, such as Lydia of Thyatira (Acts 16:15) and Nympha of Laodicea (Colossians 4:15). Women held offices and played significant roles in group worship. Paul, for example, greets a deacon named Phoebe (Romans 16:1) and assumes that women are praying and prophesying during worship (I Corinthians 11). As prophets, women's roles would have included not only ecstatic public speech, but preaching, teaching, leading prayer, and perhaps even performing the eucharist meal.”
“Later texts support these early portraits of women, both in exemplifying their prominence and confirming their leadership roles (Acts 17:4, 12).”
“In the Gospel of John, the risen Jesus gives her special teaching and commissions her as an apostle to the apostles to bring them the good news. She obeys and is thus the first to announce the resurrection and to play the role of an apostle, although the term is not specifically used of her. Later tradition, however, will herald her as "the apostle to the apostles." The strength of this literary tradition makes it possible to suggest that historically Mary was a prophetic visionary and leader within one sector of the early Christian movement after the death of Jesus.”
“Gender is itself contested as a "natural" category in the face of the power of God's Spirit at work in the community and the world. This meant that potentially women (and men) could exercise leadership on the basis of spiritual achievement apart from gender status and without conformity to established social gender roles.”
“Women's prominence did not, however, go unchallenged. Every variety of ancient Christianity that advocated the legitimacy of women's leadership was eventually declared heretical, and evidence of women's early leadership roles was erased or suppressed.”
Elaine Pagels, Historian:
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/religion/first/roles.htmlExcerpts:
“I don't see a picture of a Golden Age of egalitarianism back there. I see a new, unformed, diverse, and threatened movement which allowed a lot more fluidity for women in certain roles for a while, in some places and not in others. That [also] stirred an enormous amount of resentment, which you see in some of the New Testament writers, for example, in the author of [First] Timothy, which says, "women should be silent in all the churches" and attributes that point of view to Paul.”
“We have information from about the end of the second century that whatever roles women may have had earlier, leaders of the church were beginning to clarify the fact that women should have no official position in the church as they were establishing it. And that was seen as a characteristic of heretical groups. The orthodox church would have none of that, and did not, so far as we can tell, from about the second century on. Where women distinguished themselves in the orthodox community were as martyrs.... And there are famous women who are martyrs. There was a famous holy woman, Thecla, whose story describes enormous opposition. There's not a single woman of renown in the ancient church whose story does not show enormous opposition from some of the men in the group.”
“The gospels of the New Testament tell stories about Mary Magdalene, and there she appears along with the women.... [In Luke], Mary was one whom Jesus had healed. But in other gospels, she appears quite differently. She appears in fact as one of the disciples, not only one of the disciples, but one of those chosen for special teaching, for deeper teaching and wisdom. In the Gospel of Mary Magdalene, she appears as the one disciple who has courage and comforts the others in despair. She appears as the one who speaks to the others to encourage them. So she seems to be one of the great disciples according to some of these other sources.”
“Later tradition suggested she was a prostitute and that she was the one who wiped Jesus' feet with her hair. This is not said in the gospels. It has no foundation in history at all. I suspect that there were Christians who were trying to challenge her status among certain groups who saw her as a great one of the disciples. For example, even today on the Mount of Olives in Jerusalem, there's a Russian Orthodox Church of Mary Magdalene as a great saint. And others countered, I suggest, by saying, "Oh no, she was a prostitute." So there, in the person of Mary Magdalene, [we see how] groups fought about the status and role of women.”
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Unfortunately, there seems to be a reference to promote every point of view, especially when various experts don't agree with one another's findings and interpretations.
But, obviously, there's a long history of male/female inequality issues in various church denominations. It's disheartening for Christians for whom gender equality is an important issue.
As a JW, I could never appear alone on the platform* when giving a talk. There always had to be two women so you could face each other like you were conversing together, not formally preaching to the congregation.
*(JWs don't refer to a pulpit - distancing themselves from the appearance, terminology and belief systems of all the churches belonging to what they call 'Christendom' - false religion - i.e. everyone except JWs).
After my JW stint, I attended a fundy EV church with a friend. There, women had to have their heads covered to show submission (to males). I didn't wear a hat or veil and often caught the disapproving glares from other women. Mostly I was oblivious to the strict rule, thinking it didn't apply to me, a non-member, but a little piece of me was being silently rebellious (even though that wasn't really my nature).
Of course, in that church, women never spoke from the pulpit because that would be teaching men - not allowed.
It's obvious now that most interpretations of ancient texts cannot be 100% verified and so the differing opinions amongst the many sects of Christianity will persist because there has never been consensus. That has always been one of the frustrating parts of it for me - it would be more helpful if it were more black & white - or better yet - if there were room for the varying interpretations and emphasis each group wishes to focus on. Or something like that. No one group can truthfully claim to know all or with exactitude. And yet contradiction from group to group is irritating. It easily, and understandably, turns people off.
The best you can do if you're interested in religion, I finally concluded, is find a group where you can feel comfortable with their main message and mission and with how they choose to live it. Nobody can claim to have exclusive possession of "truth".
Unlike the WatchTower Society (JWs) who actually call their faith "The Truth". Members regularly refer to being "in The Truth" whereas outsiders are "not in The Truth"). From this side of my ill-fated JW interlude, that sounds distinctly extremist.
Re the Saddleback incident, it will be interesting to see the outcome. The issues are certainly not new ones. It's astounding, actually, that this attitude goes so far back in history and still prevails.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/22/2023 03:40PM by Nightingale.