‘Christian patriots’ are flocking from blue states to Idaho
North Idaho offers a window into what a right-wing vision for a Christian America can look like — and the power it can wield in state politics


https://www.washingtonpost.com/religion/2023/02/24/idaho-christian-nationalism-marjorie-taylor-greene/


North Idaho has long been known for its hyperlibertarians, apocalyptic “preppers” and white supremacist groups who have retreated to the region’s sweeping frozen lakes and wild forests to await the collapse of American society, when they’ll assert control over what remains.

But in recent years, the state’s existing separatists have been joined by conservatives fleeing bluer Western states, opportunistic faith leaders, real estate developers and, most recently, those opposed to coronavirus restrictions and vaccines. Though few arrived carrying Christian nationalist banners, many have quickly adopted aspects of the ideology to advance conservative causes and seek strength in unity.

The origin of North Idaho’s relationship with contemporary Christian nationalism can be traced to a 2011 blog post published by survivalist author James Wesley, Rawles (the comma is his addition). Titled “The American Redoubt — Move to the Mountain States,” Rawles’s 4,000-word treatise called on conservative followers to pursue “exit strategies” from liberal states and move to “safe havens” in the American Northwest — specifically Idaho, Montana, Wyoming and eastern sections of Oregon and Washington. He dubbed the imagined region the “American Redoubt” and listed Christianity as a pillar of his society-to-be.

“I’m sure that this brief essay will generate plenty of hate mail, and people will brand me as a religious separatist,” he writes. “So be it. I am a separatist, but on religious lines, not racial ones.”

Rawles made an exception for Orthodox Jews and Messianic Jews, saying they would also be welcome in the Redoubt because they “share the same moral framework” as conservative Christians. But the post, which has been updated multiple times since, concludes with a list of “prepper-friendly” congregations in the Reformed Church tradition (Rawles is a Reformed Baptist).

“In calamitous times, with a few exceptions, it will only be the God fearing that will continue to be law abiding,” writes Rawles, who declined to be interviewed for this article.

I first noticed something was up with that area when Mark Furhman (remember him from OJ's trial?) moved up there.

Then there were years that the normal citizens of Coeur d'Alene would complain about the Aryan Nation white supremist parades. I thought the racists were run out of the town but it turns out all this time they've been building nests and multiplying like roaches.

It's hard to see beautiful N. Idaho getting such a bad reputation. It's even harder to see the influence in the state legislature. I'm too established to move. I don't have a lot of confidence that things will improve. Christian Nationalist types seem to be gaining the majority and that means very little pushback of the extreme views will happen here.

They may differ on matters of faith / no faith, but they have the same concept of Utopia -- whites only, no blacks, no Jews, traditional roles for women, no LGBTQIA+...

anybody Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> They may differ on matters of faith / no faith,
> but they have the same concept of Utopia -- whites
> only, no blacks, no Jews, traditional roles for
> women, no LGBTQIA+...


You said above:

"Rawles made an exception for Orthodox Jews and Messianic Jews"

So it sounds like they have they moved away from this?


Despite my few ill-advised forays into this or that fringe-y Christian-style faith group, I can't imagine going to this extreme and seemingly completely losing a grip on reality or decency or both.

I remember as a teen with the JWs telling myself not to make any giant leaps away from solid ground (such as not living life because Armageddon's coming). It's astounding to me to see adults entering some weird alternative universe such as some of these fundamentalists.

I think that's what saved me - when my family needed my help and JWs were telling me not to respond (because they weren't JWs) that clanged very loudly to me and it's what got me out from one instant to the next. I just knew that could not be right. Of course, the JWs had to blame me for not being faithful enough instead of seeing their own shortcomings. I'd say if a faith group advocates you breaking with your family and friends that should be a gigantic red flag. As it was, my interlude with the WatchTower Society put my career plans on hold (because they don't believe in higher education - "we won't need nurses after Armageddon") but fortunately I was able to eventually return to my original life plan.

And Armageddon is still imminent. Apparently. I sometimes wonder what happened to all my JW friends (well, I thought they were friends but I never heard from them after I left). I mean, it must get old, preaching the imminent end of the world and denying oneself a normal life, just hanging about for something cataclysmic to occur which will hopefully make all the sacrifices worthwhile. And yet, they wait.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/25/2023 04:54PM by Nightingale.

and he was "nice" enough to help me fix my truck -- so I thought.

I guess that means not all of them are thinking about Armageddon -- or maybe he was thinking about trying to do it before the end of the world...who knows.


Most of the fundies that I come across have a love / hate relationship with Jews -- not really hating, but not really accepting either...more like "they just need to be converted" or "perfected" per Ann Coulter's crazy comment.

The need to jettison the electoral system rings throughout me, nearly 24/7

What we have now is a checkerboard ‘bingo’ set-up that’s threatening our representative system of government..

Trump brought chaos to the presidency along with culture wars all the way to the USSC.

There isn’t a resolution on the horizon, much less one that will satisfy extremists..

So sustaining "our representative system of government" requires "jettisoning the electoral system."

How exactly does a government represent its subjects without elections?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/25/2023 02:01AM by Lot's Wife.

Perhaps GNPE means instead, jettisoning the Electoral College in favor of a direct vote. You can make a case for that.

Yes, in that case I agree. Also, eliminate the disproportional allocation of senate seats and gerrymandering of districts. Render elections more democratic so minorities cannot dominate the three branches of government.

The answer to anti-democratic forces is more democracy.

Exactly.

the word/term 'college' isn't found in our Constitution so I don't use it in this context;

I'll bet the words 'checkerboard' & 'bingo' clued you, 'eh?

The original post is filled with all kinds of information but not one evidence-based fact. I live in North Central Idaho, Moscow. I have many friends in Coeur d'Alene and Sandpoint and spend time in the North Idaho woods in the summer. It's beautiful. One of my friends tracks this kind of information because they are interested in keeping N. Idaho free of white supremacists, after having rid the area years ago. I'm just as interested because we have some white-supremacist leaning "Christ Church" group(s) trying to gain a foot hold here.

Please supply me and other readers with numbers to back up your assertions. I'm genuinely interested.

Here's the same article, not behind a paywall:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/christian-patriots-are-flocking-from-blue-states-to-idaho/ar-AA17TeLn

I don't think there's much in the way of hard numbers, except to say that 1/4 of Idaho residents have moved there within the past ten years --

"The Redoubt is growing rapidly, bolstered by conservative flight chiefly from California. Idaho and Montana have repeatedly ranked among the U.S. Census Bureau’s top five fastest-growing states in recent years. According to a recent study overseen by Jaap Vos, a University of Idaho professor of planning and natural resources, 1 in 4 Idahoans didn’t live there 10 years ago.

Most come, Vos said, for cheaper housing and lower taxes, not Rawles’s clarion call. But Vos noted that when it comes to transplants in North Idaho, motivations go beyond finances. 'They want to be around people that are like them,' he said."

Thank you Summer. After reading the article, I agree with you.

"I don't think there's much in the way of hard numbers."

There is no information about the political views of 1/4 of new Idahoans provided. Certainly not enough to support the "Fundies Flocking To Idaho" title of this thread.

This is a variation of the "I have a black friend" argument.

No. This a plea for evidence based information. Do you have any to offer?

You can't be a racist because you have a black friend ?

That's not fair, Dave.

Dave A: In addition to listing a classless jerk comment about me, you have avoided the simple request, that I repeated for you in small words. I would like some evidence that the Fundies are Flocking to Idaho.

Why does an honest plea for fact-based information result in your off base and bunker mentality?

I would love to have good information. I love it here and don't want white supremacists bringing their ilk into the state again. It was hard enough to get rid of them the first time.

All You have to do is go visit there for a little while and you will see the "situation" they have there, for example my Sister who is a nurse and lives up there got her first COVID booster shot in 2020, another co worker (a nurse) accused her of causing her baby to miscarriage because she my sister got the COVID shot and because they work in the same building that caused the miscarriage. Unfortunately this type of thinking is VERY common there

Changeling Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> All You have to do is go visit there for a little
> while and you will see the "situation" they have
> there, for example my Sister who is a nurse and
> lives up there got her first COVID booster shot in
> 2020, another co worker (a nurse) accused her of
> causing her baby to miscarriage because she my
> sister got the COVID shot and because they work in
> the same building that's what caused the miscarriage.
> Unfortunately this type of thinking is VERY common
> there

This is true from what I see too from anecdotal evidence.

Also, you can tell by the state legislature's priorities and actions there has been a strong shift to cater to the more extreme right voters. They got voted in because the number of people with those views is growing. I'm not talking about old school conservative Republicans. They often speak out against the extremism but seem to be outvoted.

I also had a discussion with a realtor about CA transplants. It's a thing here.

Seems like rich Californians are what’s moving into northern Idaho. These kind of articles seem to over exaggerate things and reek of political bias.

Need.More.Temples.In.Idaho!

"christian patriot" is an oxymoron.

God and guns. Rednecks gotta live somewhere.

Better for them to go there instead of smaller swing states. Going to a State that is already a right wing paradise will not make a dent in the national picture. Going to a smaller swing State, such as New Hampshire, where the "free Staters" are going, can affect the national picture via changing the Senate.

It could swing the House of Representatives after the next census.

GNPE Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It could swing the House of Representatives after
> the next census.

True, it could do that. But the Senate has a far more disproportionate influence in American politics, not just as a legislative body, but also in its role in shaping the judicial system through confirmation of federal judges, that IMHO the Senate is far more crucial. Since Idaho is already deep red with its two Senators, you could multiple the Idaho population ten times, with 100% solid right-wingers, and their influence in the Senate will not change.

A State like NH teeters and can go either direction. Currently both Senators are Democrats (as well as both Representatives in the House), But the current Governor of NH is Republican, and both houses of the current State legislature are Republican controlled. It doesn't take much of a push to turn New Hampshire solidly red.

Messianic Jews aren't Jews, they are christians.

anonynon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Messianic Jews aren't Jews, they are christians.


'The Jewish Voice' defines Messianic Jews as follows:

"Messianic Jews are people of Jewish heritage who maintain their Jewish identity and acknowledge Yeshua as the Messiah."

"While there are many similarities between Messianic Judaism, Christianity, and Judaism, Messianic Jewish people embrace their Jewish heritage, while believing that Yeshua is the Messiah, the promised Redeemer of Israel and all of mankind."

https://www.jewishvoice.org/read/blog/difference-between-messianic-judaism-and-christianity


They maintain their Jewish identity so I don't think it's accurate to say they're not Jews.

I understand there is some controversy over this. But generally, shouldn't a person be able to define their own identity?

Here I am attending church and living in Idaho. How did I miss all this?

My sister lives in Hagerman, Idaho. She just recently finally left the church. She told me about this:

"Two Idaho lawmakers have introduced a bill to charge those who administer mRNA vaccines with a misdemeanor."

I was rather shocked. My BIL doctor told him the other day when he went in for a COVID test that he shouldn't have gotten a vaccination and that he really more than likely just had the flu and put him on antibiotics. Having had COVID, I told my sister to watch him closely. He is 67 and has heart issues like atrial fibrillation.

Yeah, I saw that. The next-generation flu vaccines are going to be mRNA-based. So is the Idaho legislature going to ban flu vaccines moving forward? Good luck with that.

They all need to go to an entry-level science class and learn about human biology. Then learn a little something about scientific advances in the fields of general medicine and immunology. For starters.

Politicians should stay in their lane. Or at least learn a little bit about the issues they are bleeting on about and worse, making decisions about that affect the rest of us.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/26/2023 07:23PM by Nightingale.

I think I would have been sold on the Covid 19 vaccine anyway, but what really put it over the top was when a PhD candidate in immunology at the University of Maryland became the first person in my state to get the vaccine. I figured, this guy knows a whole lot more about immunology than I ever will, and if he wants it, I want it.

Nightingale wrote in part:

"Politicians should stay in their lane. Or at least learn a little bit about the issues they are bleeting on about and worse, making decisions about that affect the rest of us."

The politicians that are running Idaho (and every U.S. state and Canadian province for that matter) were elected to their positions by a majority of the people in their state/province/county/district who voted in the last election. They didn't force a gun to anybody's heads to get there.

What this means in practice is that more than the politicians, it's the people who voted them into office who need to be trained on the importance of vaccines and why we should be getting them. Unfortunately, many of these people are believing fraudulent stories by salesmen (con men if you will) that say that all of the scientists have it wrong and that there are miracle cures out there.

While I'm on it, I also have to take exception to poster KENC's comments (see above) about Idaho just being a normal state. If that state were so "normal,", then surely its citizens wouldn't have elected the kinds of politicians to office that have been elected.

I rest my case.

blindguy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The politicians that are running Idaho (and every
> U.S. state and Canadian province for that matter)
> were elected to their positions by a majority of
> the people in their state/province/county/district
> who voted in the last election. They didn't force
> a gun to anybody's heads to get there.

> What this means in practice is that more than the
> politicians, it's the people who voted them into
> office who need to be trained on the importance of
> vaccines and why we should be getting them.

Yes, we voted. And they won. But in many cases, maybe most, the elections occurred prior to the start of the pandemic. Too, it may have been beyond the imagination of most voters (me included) to think of a time when politicians would make decisions relating to the medical field that would literally affect our lives in real time. We more generally think they will look after roads and airports and building new schools and the price of coffee. Never could I have imagined that a politician without the requisite training would decide what, if any, medicine or medical procedures I should have access to, or that so many would make such drastically terrible choices.

I agree that the general population should hopefully have basic knowledge about their own medical needs but still we're at the mercy of the system in a lot of respects. In an emergency situation such as the onset of the pandemic, when it's up to government members to manage the crisis, we are essentially sitting ducks if they're not up to the job and what can we do about it, no matter the depth of our own knowledge and experience, if the people making the decisions are raving loons.


> ... surely its citizens wouldn't have
> elected the kinds of politicians to office that
> have been elected.

The problem with our democratic system is that everybody gets a vote. Haha - joke - but really that obviously does not leave each individual with all that much power. We're at the mercy, in our system of government, of the power of the majority. When it comes to crucial issues and dire circumstances, we can only hope that reason prevails in large enough numbers to ensure the best decisions are made. That doesn't always happen, or happen often enough, sad to say.

I'm just lucky that with the Covid crisis I wanted the vaccine asap and the governing party of decision-makers made it happen. If they had chosen otherwise, what power, really, does an individual citizen have no matter how much medical or scientific knowledge they possess? All that matters is who gets to call the shots.

So really, having a vote pretty much guarantees nothing.

Nightingale Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Yes, we voted. And they won. But in many cases,
> maybe most, the elections occurred prior to the
> start of the pandemic.

Ahh! Because you live in Canada, you don't realize how often U.S. citizens have to vote. While the U.S. President is elected (or re-elected) every four years, every member of the U.S. House of Representatives is elected (or re-elected) every two years. In addition, some states, including Idaho if memory serves, hold their elections for their state legislatures every four years but not during the years when the U.S. President is elected/re-elected. In practice, what this means is that several members of the Idaho state legislature were, in fact, elected after the pandemic began.
>
> Too, it may have been beyond the imagination of most voters (me included) to think of a time when politicians
> would make decisions relating to the medical field
> that would literally affect our lives in real
> time. We more generally think they will look after
> roads and airports and building new schools and
> the price of coffee. Never could I have imagined
> that a politician without the requisite training
> would decide what, if any, medicine or medical
> procedures I should have access to, or that so
> many would make such drastically terrible
> choices.

Again, this speaks to the differences between the U.S. and Canadian systems. In the U.S., politicians have involved themselves in health care decisions for a long time. These range from the positive (Medicare) to the negative (rules limiting abortion rights prior to the U.S. Supreme's overturning of Roe vs. Wade last year) and everything in between.
>
> I agree that the general population should
> hopefully have basic knowledge about their own
> medical needs but still we're at the mercy of the
> system in a lot of respects. In an emergency
> situation such as the onset of the pandemic, when
> it's up to government members to manage the
> crisis, we are essentially sitting ducks if
> they're not up to the job and what can we do about
> it, no matter the depth of our own knowledge and
> experience, if the people making the decisions are
> raving loons.
>
> The problem with our democratic system is that
> everybody gets a vote. Haha - joke - but really
> that obviously does not leave each individual with
> all that much power. We're at the mercy, in our
> system of government, of the power of the
> majority. When it comes to crucial issues and dire
> circumstances, we can only hope that reason
> prevails in large enough numbers to ensure the
> best decisions are made. That doesn't always
> happen, or happen often enough, sad to say.
>
> I'm just lucky that with the Covid crisis I wanted
> the vaccine asap and the governing party of
> decision-makers made it happen. If they had chosen
> otherwise, what power, really, does an individual
> citizen have no matter how much medical or
> scientific knowledge they possess? All that
> matters is who gets to call the shots.
>
> So really, having a vote pretty much guarantees
> nothing.

Not true. Having a vote gives you the option of persuading other individuals to join you in voting out their scoundrels and electing your own. Put another way, while individual votes really don't matter in lopsided elections, those votes *most definitely* do matter when the people or issues being voted on are more controversial. And, of course, the more people you can persuade to vote your way, the better the chance you have of influencing the outcome.

This is sooo crazy to try to put the skids on mRNA type vaccines, they (Scientist in the US and elsewhere) are now beginning to use mRNA technology to fight and cure cancer

That's true. It's expected to impact research here, especially at the university level. Let alone potential research at the DoE where they have some research altering bacteria for oil issues, etc.

Biologists are not going to be thrilled to come study in Idaho. (BYU Idaho, you're not excluded).

I'm tired of people who have zero knowledge (and often no education) making decisions about things they know nothing about.

I've been living here for 5 years now and I can tell you that this town is split between the "normals" and the extremists. I suspect that the normals (including old-school Republicans) outnumber the extremists but the extremists have louder voices.

The extremists often parade up and down Sherman Ave with their massive trucks bearing Gadsden flags and other pro-trump propaganda...but really it only takes a few people to do that. What about the other 50K people who live here?

There are a lot of Democrats and leftists still here and many of them are wealthy too (it seems that it now takes close to a million dollars to buy a reasonable house here). It is not just the rich Republicans who move here. CDA has a lot to offer, plenty of fresh water and beautiful scenery so it does appeal to a wide variety of folks.

Sadly, the extremists have control of the local community college board (when I say control I mean 3 out of 5 board members) and they are driving it into the ground. Some suspect that the desire to force the college to loose it's accreditation is motivated by the desire to close it down and grab the land it is located on. This land is right along the lake and is worth tens of millions. I have no proof for this theory, though it is a worry of a lot of people here. The thought of loosing a beautiful community college just because the land got too valuable is horrifying.

The left has a presence here too. They organize protests and pro-choice rallies. They have pro-gay events and the like. There are plenty of non-extremists who have lived here for decades.

Speaking of pro-gay events, remember last summer when the police intercepted a rental truck full of "patriots" who where planning to start some trouble? Only 2 of them were from somewhere close to here. I don't think any of them were from this town. The rest came from out-of-state. My point here is that even though it may seem this area is super right-wing that is really just not the case. The narrative seems to make people think that it is something that its not. Are extremists here? Sure. Are extremist views held by everyone here? No.

Now that the real estate values are escalating the property taxes are rising. There is no Prop 13 here so the county can re-asses property values down the road. This may drive out some of the retired (and more conservative) families. This used to be a cheap place to live but that time has passed. Covid is also having an impact on the right more than the left because the extremists don't want to vaccinate. I know that is grim but the extremists are stubborn and will refuse vaccination even though it means risking their lives.

I suspect that in the long run things will mellow out here and we can go back to being more normal. I may be wrong.

> I suspect that in the long run things will mellow
> out here and we can go back to being more normal.
> I may be wrong.

That's the issue in a nutshell. Frankly, it's also the question facing the entire country.

I was/wasn't surprised when my foster parents moved with my foster mother's brother and his wife after they all retired from their teaching positions in California and Utah, respectively. Her brother and wife saw communists around every corner. When I lived abroad in Rome, they wanted to visit us and stage out our home, and complained the whole time about "Italian communism." I came so close to asking them go get a hotel. They had just returned from a senior mission in Germany, and banged on and on about "German communism," as well.

They moved to northern Idaho specifically to be close to Beau Gritz people. This was before Gritz was excommunicated for dictating politics to the church. My foster parents recently moved back to California to live with one of their kids because of old age difficulties.