If you are going to go to the extent to set up multiple front companies to hide funds from the members what else are you going to hide and do? If they do it with funds wouldn't they do it with history and doctrine?

So when someone says the church is not honest maybe more people will pay attention.

I'm not counting on it. Brainwashing and years of loyalty and ego are hard to overcome.

Hahaha. You mean the church has some things too sacred even for the members.

You make a good point. But I'm not convinced that TBMs will make the same connection.

The first thing the so called MORMON 'church' hid / hides from it's members is the (original) book of Mormon on Gold Plates... And they've been hiding things every since.

When your so-called "church" is based on a hoax and a fraud, there's a lot you have to hide. Mostly THE TRUTH!

This assumes that the church ever made a claim of fall openness. To my knowledge they have not. Joseph Smith hints at knowing things that he will not reveal such as his true identity so the premise does not seem to have ever been present in the concept of the church.

I don't think the concept is even present in ourselves as an individual or our relationships with others. We don't share all of our opinions because it will get us in trouble with other people and harm our relationships.

"This assumes that the church ever made a claim of full openness"

Sorry; doesn't work that way. "I never said I wouldn't steal from you" doesn't get you off the hook for theft.

When a group hides things from members, that's a problem right there. It's hiding things. It's lying. To its own members. Why? It doesn't get off the hook by some theory that it never said whatever. Why the deception? Why the lies?

I agree I would like the church to be more open.

But the hiding was obvious when they closed the books in the first place back in the late 50s was it?

So if this is your line in the church sand you should have left a long time ago.

I disagree that it was theft. I might go down the fraud path with you. But so far the courts won't hear that claim against religion.

I'm sure that the Q15 regard the membership as being "the little people" who do not need to trouble their minds with the mundane details of how the church is run. The members want the fun Disney ride; they do not need to see what goes on behind the scenes.

It’s fine for most members to not care what goes on behind the scenes.

When you take that route though, your self-respect takes a real hit, and you become as someone put it the other day, “half-men” and “half-women.”

Whatever works, I suppose.

As soon as I read the word "hides" in the title of this thread my brain immediately shut down any more reading or thinking about what you wrote here. It's just how the Correlation program has wired my brain to think. We are sure a peculiar people.

Instead of reading what you have to say I think I'm going to go harass all my neighbors into getting them assimilated into my wondrous church. When they start asking questions and become convinced that we're super honest and transparent about everything (i.e. that's just what true churches do) then they'll want to join and my harassments of them will pay off and they in turn can get all their friends/families assimilated too and then the number of people who think like me will explode exponentially and we'll be able to up our tempo of harassing people with our wondrous gospel.

In Mormonism, lying for the Lord is a good thing. It's the SEC's fault for not understanding that.

Doesn't it go back to JS and his showing of plates under a cloth with spiritual eyes?

The Correlation program gave me a spiritual brain. Line upon line, precept on precept, I received a washing of my brain by immersion. Now I'm wired to think this peculiar way with this spiritual brain of mine. It's why this whole "Recovery from Mormonism" idea just seems so silly to this spiritual brain of mine. My spiritual brain doesn't need any recovery. It's just fine and dandy in obeying the Brethren unquestionably without any need to ever seriously think about anything, except to obey, obey, obey, and obey.

Add on some spiritual eyes, spiritual ears, and a spiritual voice box & you've got quite a peculiar person who is capable of seeing and hearing things in a wondrous way.