"A sunk cost is a cost that has already been paid for and cannot be recovered in any way."
https://www.thestreet.com/dictionary/s/sunk-cost

A strange thing happens in the mind of a person who is in a bad situation where they have invested time, money, emotion, or other forms of energy. It can happen with a job, a relationship, an investment, or religion.

"The sunk cost dilemma is basically what you go through before avoiding or falling prey to the sunk cost fallacy."

At this point, we have a choice. We can cut our losses, or we can double down.

I think the big difference between exmos and TBMs who have seen the truth but don't leave is that exmos do not double down. We cut our losses. In my opinion, this is a healthier way to deal with Mormonism.

There is also the danger of self-deception. Anybody who has worked in sales will understand this example. I had a job in sales, and I hated it. I did not hate sales. I hated the product. I would call prospects and they would get upset. I also talked to people who had already bought and they wanted their money back.

I talked to my boss and he said something about learning to avoid negativity. I get it. When you're new in sales, you get a lot of rejection. But if you're working for a company that is selling trash, you get a lot of rejection. It's difficult to know the difference at first.

So I tried our product. It was trash. And customer support was horrible. I tried to get a refund. I only got it after a friend who was a lawyer sent them a demand letter.

I was no longer able to call up customers and offer the "the chance of a lifetime" because I knew it wasn't true.

I soon left. I can't lie to myself.

I wonder what happens in the mind of a Mormon who has a "crisis of faith", in other words a Mormon who has been confronted with the truth that Mormonism is all a lie.

Doubling down. I also think there's something that happens when a Mormon is confronted with the truth, but they decide that they can't leave. Family ties, career, friends. There are many reasons.

We used to get them on this board back in the day. Fortunately, our awesome admins put in a lot of time cleaning up threads and making this board a place where we can discuss ideas without Mormon interference. I think that Mormons who have doubled down go one of two directions.
1. Suffer in silence (food, prescription pills)
2. Go all in
I've seen a few relatives who went through this "crisis of faith" after being confronted with the truth. They became the most evangelical Mormons, telling every person they met about their religion. Some of them became apologists. Watching them twist into intellectual pretzels is really something to see.

I can't completely blame a Mormon who decides that they can't leave. It's frightening enough to lose your reservation in heaven. But the immediate danger is that they will lose their marriage, their children, their job, and all of their friends. I kinda get it. But I can't do it.

I could no longer live a lie. It took way too much energy and it felt horrible. Like they say, if you put too many things on the shelf, the shelf eventually crashes down.

It was my first year of law school when I learned how to think more critically. That's when I started looking for information on Mormonism and found this board.

I was lucky. I was married to a nevermo, living far away from family, and I had no Mormon friends. My wife was happy when I finally left. My family had no idea. And my new friends in school had no idea I was ever a Mormon. I was just the odd guy who didn't drink (still don't). And I was a bit more square than my classmates (still am).

It was a bit frightening. I had so many old ideas about heaven and hell, the Devil, and earthly blessings. I had some FOMO. But on the other hand I could no longer ignore all the lies, half-truths, and despicable behavior of Mormons (by their fruits, you will know them). If anybody really believed what they were taught (and what they in turn taught) how could they behave like such jerks?

What made the difference for you?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/31/2023 09:20PM by T-Bone.

I got a sunk cost with the Nursery Cheerios. Oh my they were good and tasty. As a result the Correlation program got working on me and I developed a peculiar and wondrous way of thinking as my brain was washed by immersion through this beloved Correlation program. Even now as I think about those Cheerios I must admit that they were tasty. Thus, I got hooked in. Maybe your Cheerios weren't so tasty? And now your brain has been programmed some other way than through the exclusive control of the Correlation program and it's beloved designers like the wondrous late Boyd K. Packer, perhaps a kindest man than anyone we'll ever have the rest of our lives overseeing the Correlation program?

For some reason the Admins have allowed me to stay here, even though I'm currently facing a severe credibility problem. I'm suspicious that some of them might think I'm just using satire. But the ones who believe that the Church is super honest on everything, such as finances & attendance statistics, will know that I'm genuine. I also promise to leave as soon as all of my fellow Apologists for this wondrous religion are being completely honest. One of the most important ways that we can sell the world on the idea of being a true Church is to be truthful. What an idea - a true Church tells the truth :) If we're deceptive, gaslight, or dishonest then we'll need to have our kids having to learn to say something else besides "I know the chooch is choo" and that could have a devastating impact during F&T meetings and the Brethren might stop banning F&T meetings if the little kids start saying "I know the Chooch lies" or something like that.

About my credibility problem - I've been meaning to provide you all here those links where you can see the Church's information on finances, history, and statistics so you can be amazed to see how incredibly honest/transparent they are as that's a given that true Churches are true - i.e. honest/transparent. However, I've been slothful about providing those links. Hmmm, where did I put those links as it's devastating my precious credibility that I still haven't provided them.

I'm still here! I can't be "cleaned up" because I know too much.

I really wish I could recover my sunk costs: I wish I could get the two years of my mission replaced with a normal 19-20 year old experience. I wish I could get all my Sundays (and countless hours during other days of the week) back. I wish I could get a refund on my tithing, fast offerings, and other donations. I wish I could have all my energy back that was wasted due to deception. None of that can happen. I now have the integrity that comes from being honest with myself. They can’t take that from me.

+1

Can't go back and the marry the nonmormon who asked me over and over. Couldn't leave the church and run off with him and I had to save my future husband. My children were put through a lot because of my choices.

Somewhere along the way, I figured it out. I realized the leaders were stupid and had no answers to anything. I realized being gay is normal (I was pretty sure he would never change to straight right from the start, but the leaders told me otherwise). I'm 66 and I feel like WTH!!

Alternate reality calling: What do you think might have happened if you married your nonmormon at that time and place?

I sometimes play "what if" games with myself. My conclusion is that I would have gained in some ways, and lost in others. It's hard to have everything in life.

My husband wanted to be with a man and I went in to the bishop with the question of can he be with a man and live a happy life and go to the CK. I was told no at every turn. I even had one of all them tell me recently that it was my fault he cheated because I didn't do what it took to satisfy him. It has been a constant reminder for all these years.

Well, he got to have many boyfriends and I got to be back with one of the boyfriends who asked me to marry them back then in 1978, BUT my kids don't really like him. I don't try to get his kids to like me. I just let them interact with me when they choose to. Having these 4 adult children has had its BIG issues and smaller issues.

There was another one I could have also married a few years later when I was going through the craziness of dealing with the leaders. He was separated from his wife and getting a divorce. He begged me to marry him for 18 months. I was torn between saving my future husband and being with this man I had loved for a while. I chose to maybe save a soul as I cared about the man who is my "husband" still. I wasn't quite out of the church yet, didn't know what to do. I was a complete mess and suicidal 24/7. I paid a HUGE price for the choice I made. The husband left, I had to declare bankruptcy. My kids suffered through it all as their dad wasn't around and didn't help pay bills. My life was a living hell and I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

You bet I would have married one of the two of them if I had known. I paid a high price for following the leaders. I've posted that when my dad finally found out what really happened--not all of it--he found out in 2008. He said I always knew you were too smart to marry someone gay.

All I wanted is for this man to be OKAY and not DAMNED. I was an experiment for the church and for him. It makes me angry and it makes me VERY, VERY sad.

I talk to other ex wives of gays and we deal with a lot of things that others never do, even divorcees. It is very complex. I hold the leaders responsible.

Not so terribly long ago it occurred to me that my husband never was interested in me romantically. I asked him and he said I was correct. He put on a good show at times. He cares a lot about me and has been very envious of the boyfriend, but he's gay. I'm just someone he cares about. I know the difference between being with a straight compared to a gay.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/01/2023 07:02PM by cl2.

>> My kids suffered through it all as their dad wasn't around and didn't help pay bills.

Cl2, you showed a great deal of kindness and consideration to your "husband" that he hasn't always deserved.

>> I even had one of all them tell me recently that it was my fault he cheated because I didn't do what it took to satisfy him. It has been a constant reminder for all these years.

How do you respond to that? I don't think I'd be responsible for my tongue in such a case. I can't believe that someone would have the gall to comment like that on someone else's sex life.

cl2, very sorry to hear that.

I knew a couple of young guys in college who I suspected were gay. They got married and had children. I sometimes wonder what happened with them.

It's terrible that the Mormon church pushes women to marry someone as an experiment, and blames the wife when the doomed marriage does not work out.

THe Mormon church and it's so-called leaders are really disgusting.

I can say we have a lot more peace now than we did in the past. I do get along with the "ex" and he helps the kids out a lot. Our son is schizophrenic and my ex has taken over doing the things that need to be done like filing for disability and taking him to all his appts, etc. I very seldom have to drive him anywhere.

He does a lot of things for our daughter like fixing the plumbing in the old trailer she and her husband bought and paying for part of their next purchase. He is really TIGHT financially and it has helped them to see him do these things for them now.

After all I had been through by the time he left--You see, I would stayed to the end even if he cheated endlessly with men and had partners. I just wanted him to help raise the kids. Now he apologizes to me and the kids for what he did. Even if i had sunk so much into the church by then, I was DONE. I've said that I left for life experience reasons. I didn't know the history until I came to this board. It was wonderful to hear that in my own way, I made my way out.

But I do know ex-wives of gays who held onto the church for a long time. I basically gave up all my hopes and dreams for the lds church and I had to build new ones.

I'm in a "foul" mood this past little while as my 2 dogs who are brothers died four months apart. I don't do well with losing my dogs. The second brother just died 2 weeks ago today.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/09/2023 03:36PM by cl2.

I believe this is what missions are really all about. Not to go find new members but to up the buy in factor. Back in the early days it may have been different but in "modern" times I think it is all about the buy in. It's also why they keep sending people to countries with very low conversion rates, it doesn't really matter.

Or maybe up the obedience factor. Haven't we seen statistics that say that roughly half of returned missionaries go inactive? It might be that the church only wants a certain kind of member, and is willing to cull in order to get that.

Susan I/S Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I believe this is what missions are really all
> about. Not to go find new members but to up the
> buy in factor. Back in the early days it may have
> been different but in "modern" times I think it is
> all about the buy in. It's also why they keep
> sending people to countries with very low
> conversion rates, it doesn't really matter.

Ouch.

I'm seeing sunk cost in all areas of life for Mormons.
Marriage
Large families
Church meetings
Callings
Cleaning chapels

It's all a way of getting members involved in the Mormon lifestyle so they can't imagine themselves living any other way.

Very insightful post. Definitely applies to Mormonism. To double down in the face of incontrovertible evidence, is to be a coward. It might work in the moment, but your life will ultimately suffer for your willful ignorance.

Thanks, so well said, my wife and I where talking about this last night, the price you pay when you leave the church, losing friends and family who doesn't talk to you much or at all, and that list goes on and on, I sometimes think me or who knows have some type of PTSD after going through this, but hold on I can see more clearly now

Three of my six siblings were already out of the church--they rebelled in their teens. Some still question, but they never stopped talking to me and neither did my parents. My parents had seen what I'd been through. I was their most devout child and they couldn't figure out why I left the church. My dad at that point had figured out my ex is gay.

My older sister left the church since COVID. She and her husband. I never thought her husband would leave. My other sibling is disabled and he likes going as he knows almost everyone as he lives in my parents' house and he has lived there all his life, so the people around know him.

I have a nonmember boyfriend from my past and I have a lot of nonmormon friends from a job i worked in my 20s. My ex and my son are out. Most people in my life are no longer mormon or never were mormon. In that way, I have been lucky.